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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
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The following information is courtesy of the American Bar Association. I assume that they have a legal duty to post accurate information:
1) Firearm deaths in the U.S. are 8 times higher than its economic counterparts.
2) Among children 15 years old and younger, firearm deaths are 12 times higher than in 25 other industrial countries combined.
3) The U.S. has the highest rate of youth homicides & suicides among 26 wealthiest nations.
Feel free to check this out for yourselves.
The above information aside, I still maintain that there is something seriously wrong with the mentality of individuals who feel that it is their "right" to own high power assault weapons with large capacity magazines - especially those equipped with ammunition that is specifically designed to kill human beings. The use of this kind of ammunition on the battlefield is considered a war crime, by the way.
I weary of attempting to explain what I consider to be just common decency.
Arguing with you guys is like trying to teach a stone frog how to fart.*
Bernard Cornwell, if I remember correctly.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
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I believe it.
And then I would have to suppose Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
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1) Firearm deaths in the U.S. are 8 times higher than its economic counterparts.
2) Among children 15 years old and younger, firearm deaths are 12 times higher than in 25 other industrial countries combined.
3) The U.S. has the highest rate of youth homicides & suicides among 26 wealthiest nations.
The problem is not kids with guns. The problem is kids with attitude, kids with no parents or dysfunctional ones.
Stewart, I am sick and tired of the liberal hand wringing over "high power assault weapons with large capacity magazines".
If you live miles from the nearest neighbor calling 911 means that eventually somebody will investigate the mess if you fail to deal with it. An assault weapon is very useful for self-defense in such a scenario.
And do you even know what a 3G competion is? Such firearms are de riguer.
Or what about if you just like punching holes in paper?
Or what about legally hunting with a 5 round mag? They can feed your family too.
In other words there are plenty of legitimate roles that they can fulfill.
You obviously know little about such things. How would you feel if somebody who knew very little about climbing was in charge of making the climbing regulations? (There are a fair number of us that have walked in those shoes)
Yeah right, no sporting purpose; when the hell did self-defense become a sport? (and how tf do you score it?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
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On checking the UN database which was the likely 'source' of the data, you find that the total number of people who came in contact with the police/judicial system was 1470.3 / 100k in 2009. Whomever the 'WebGuy' on ranker.com is has some serious problems with math to transform that into 14,726.95 / 100k. But of course no one bothered to check and so now that moron's list has infected the web like a virus (and mostly on right-leaning websites).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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In other words there are plenty of legitimate roles that they can fulfill.
No doubt. I'm sure at least 1 or 2% of the weapons that fit that description do fulfill those legitimate roles. The rest? Bullsh#t, it's masturbatory white suburban male delusion.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
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Toker Villain: It sickens me to even think that one citizen of the United States thinks as you do, even more so to realize that others share your beliefs.
For starters, in the past, I have indicated that not only am I not unfamiliar with firearms, but I have also stated that I have no objections to those who possess firearms for target shooting or hunting purposes. If it makes you sleep better, go ahead and get a gun for self-defence - just don't be too disappointed if your kid blows his head off playing with it, or the bad guys take it away from you and uses it upon your family.
If you need a large capacity magazine attached to an automatic weapon to go hunting with, you're not much of a man, and even less of a hunter.
As for self defence in remote places beyond contact with the police, your paranoia is breathtaking. Should you be under assault by people packing automatic weapons loaded with ammunition designed specifically designed to kill human beings, I suggest that you just relax and die. Those scenarios, even in the United States are pretty well non-existent, and an assault force that determined wouldn't stop at automatic weapons - they'd probably have access to grenade launchers, and god know what other amazing weaponry.
Grow up, you pathetic fool. It is a waste of time to attempt to participate in a rational debate with you.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
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It must be quite awful, and exhausting, to live in such fear of one's fellow citizens, to feel one must be armed in order to survive.
Precision sports as target shooting, dart and similar activities are quite a different matter. One of the few sports where an Olympic master isn't necessarily a young person.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
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It must be quite awful, and exhausting, to live in such fear of one's fellow citizens, to feel one must be armed in order to survive.
Do you "live in fear" of a flood damaging your house? Do you carry flood insurance?
Do you "live in fear" of getting ejected through your windshield? Do you wear your seatbelt?
Do you "live in fear" of turning your head into a red magic marker on the asphalt? Do you wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle?
Obviously, one does not have to "live in fear" to take precautions against even unlike events, especially when one thinks that the consequences of NOT having taken such precautions can be dire.
Of course, you will respond, "Well, flood insurance does not risk anybody's life when I carry THAT!"
And I will respond, "For tens of millions of responsible gun carriers, their carrying doesn't risk anybody else's life either. And there ARE real negative effects of carrying insurance that you don't really need and almost certainly will never employ."
Everything comes down to risk/reward ratios, and part of being FREE human beings is that we get to determine for OURSELVES what risks we will take and what means we will employ to mitigate those risks.
You can't paint all gun-carriers with the "paranoid" brush or try to "shame us" into changing our perspective.
If YOU prefer to proxy your self-defense to police that will CERTAINLY arrive AFTER an incident has already played out, more power to you. I, and tens of millions of other Americans, prefer to be my own front line of defense. There is nothing "paranoid," "fearful," or irresponsible about that choice.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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There is nothing "paranoid," "fearful," or irresponsible about that choice.
Interesting choice of words.
:-) No, I don't carry a flood insurance. But you know, in these days of climate change, maybe it will become necessary one day. I'm sure the insurance companies will remove it from the homeinsurance when it would start to matter.
No, I don't paint all gun-carriers with the "paranoid" brush. I perfectly understand why a hunter or target shooter has guns and rifles.
Nor do I try to shame you into changing your perspective. I realise that's an impossible task. Not my task ether. But it's the fear of needing to defend yourself with a gun which is your reason for having it. You say it yourself. And I still think it must be a heavy burden to carry that fear that someone should attack you in such a fashion.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
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Mad bolter: Rousing speech. I couldn't stop puking.
You haven't read a single goddamn word, much less though about, the concerns of those who have a different opinion from yours.
Eloquently stated, Lollie.
Unfortunately these guys are lost in a fantasy land where they actually believe that they are the only people who are capable of comprehending the concept of freedom.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
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Hey Ron: Always a pleasure to hear from you, and yes, I'm proud to be a Canadian. Unfortunately, the assault weapons that people like you have instead of penises tend to find their way across the border to pollute our nation.
I guess that your ADD is acting up again, since I have repeatedly stated that I have no objection to the responsible ownership or use of non-automatic, small capacity magazine firearms. Furthermore, I am not unacquainted with their use.
As for you, the third to last time I recall seeing your toxic comments was when you were trying to get us to help you massacre 300 MILLION Muslims. The second to last time I recall reading one of your posts, you were drooling over a new bullet that is specifically designed to kill people - the use of which, as I have earlier pointed out, is considered a war crime if used on the battlefield.
Now we have your latest carefully reasoned comments.
And you seriously think that I'd trust you to make rational decisions about anything connected with firearms?
Uh, no.
By the way, thanks guy for confirming your ignorance and paranoia by accusing me of being Bruce. I don't specifically remember his posts, but if he's the guy I think he is, I'd be happy to buy him a beer any time.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:30pm PT
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Unfortunately these guys are lost in a fantasy land where they actually believe that they are the only people who are capable of comprehending the concept of freedom.
My carrying a gun doesn't infringe upon any of your inalienable, negative rights. But when people like you try to disarm me, you are indeed infringing upon one of my inalienable, negative rights. I'll leave you alone, and you leave me alone. Fair enough?
Regarding this endless appeal to fear, I'm actually not afraid (any more than I am of being flooded), and I'm not "burdened." I wake up, slip the gun into its holster, and then go about the rest of my day not even thinking about it. Regularly I go to the range, and I enjoy that a lot! Other times I slip a laser into the barrel that is activated when the firing pin strikes it, and I do drills and see whether I am hitting what I'm aiming at. I enjoy that a lot too. So, there's no "burden." It's either enjoyable practice or something I don't think about.
I know the laws (better than most cops), and my gun is incredibly safe; it's effectively impossible for it to discharge accidentally. I say "effectively" only because anything made by humans can in principle fail. But a whole cascade of ultra-low-probability failures would have to take place for the gun to fire unintentionally. Anybody trying to elevate that "effectively impossible" into some substantive risk is the one living in fear!
Furthermore, it's an actual fact (that can be demonstrated) that I can shoot far, far more accurately than 99% of cops, and that from all sorts of positions. And the ammo I use is indeed designed to kill people, which from a public safety point of view is a GOOD thing! It means that my ammo will put a big hole in a BAD guy without traveling THROUGH him to hit somebody else.
In short, you have more to worry about from multiple, simultaneous lightening strikes through your living room ceiling than you have to worry about being shot because you were in proximity to me.
And the VAST majority of gun-carriers are more like me than they are like incompetent, power-mad, militarized cops or criminals (who, by the way, are too-often one and the same).
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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ps. the red magic marker phrase was great.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. These discussions can get so heavy that chuckles back and forth among the "opponents" are certainly worthwhile.
The taco stand is really no "campfire," because we can't see each other's faces. Probably a lot of the sometime heaviness would evaporate in the shared light of a real campfire.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
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Hey Stewart, read the bear encounter thread,.... yeah I know, not in Canada.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
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Hey Ronnie: a Bullpup with a large capacity magazine? I doubt it, since they're illegal even if one of you "responsible gun owners" smuggle them up here.
So how's it going with your attempt to organize a massacre of 300 million Muslims, and are your law enforcement buddies delighted with you for publicizing a new and improved bullet to kill people with?
It's time for you and your deranged buddies to go see a psychiatrist, Ronnie. He might be able to cure you boys from being a disgrace to all that is gentle and decent in the United States of America.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
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Ronnie: I was trying to remember one of your more recent postings that almost genuinely made me sick for its unmistakeable display of your delusional hypocrisy. Feel free to correct me if I've got any of this wrong.
You were crowing about how the U.S. had troops permanently posted in 25 nations across the world, so I asked you how you would feel if, for any reason foreign troops were posted on U.S. soil.
You reacted with some kind of pathetic jingoistic outrage about having a U.S. citizen hiding behind every blade of grass ready to kill these guys. Fair enough, maybe, but not for one keystroke did you have brains or decency, for that matter, to enquire about why these troops could (hypothetically) be posted in your country.
It was an amazing display of the kind of pathological stupidity that makes the Ronnies of this world all "patriotic" about this sort of thing while remaining intellectually stunted enough to be incapable of comprehending that other nations just might feel the same way about having U.S. troops on permanently based upon their soil.
No matter, though - I'm still waiting for you, Ronnie, to have the balls to tell us how your attempts to organize a massacre of 300 million Muslims is going, and how happy your rave reviews for the newly designed people-killer cartridges are being received among your buddies in the law enforcement community.
Toker villian: Nice to see that you're still an idiot. I worked for three years in extremely close proximity to a population of approximately 25 black bears. I never had a single problem with them, although I'm perfectly aware that they are capable of tearing people to pieces.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
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What states have a similar requirement that could be a permit or certificate ?
In Colorado, which is a shall-issue state, you have to provide proof of an six-hour gun-safety course, and most certified instructors won't give that to you without also range time and demonstrated accuracy. If you pass the BG check and give that certification to your local Sheriff, the Sheriff "shall issue" the CCW.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
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Ronnie: Not on the drugs you're apparently gooned on.
According to the Tactical Imports web site, the GM 6 rifle (referred to by them as the Bullpup configuration) has a magazine capacity of 5 bullets. I saw the video where the guy fires off more than 5 shots in semi-auto mode, so I checked out the RCMP web site, which confirms the legal maximum magazine capacity of 5 bullets. The clip that guy was using appears to be illegal. That means against the law, Ronnie.
Assuming you're not too stoned at the moment, feel free to check this for yourself.
I'm not interested in debating guns with you - I'm not interested in killing people, so if you can provide irrefutable proof that Canada's gun laws permit magazines larger than 5 bullets, it doesn't change a damn thing that I've said beyond the fact that I'll now have to go after the Canadian Government for allowing this amazing dereliction of its duty to legislate protection for Canadians from the kind of lunatic gun culture that has nearly destroyed the United States.
I also appreciate the brilliant response (as in non-existent) you provided to the statistics provided by the American Bar Association - an organization that even nutbars like you and your clones should be willing to agree is an accurate source of information.
Take your choice, Ronnie - you're either an idiot or a liar when you deny making the statement about the massacre of 300 million (actually 312 million if my memory serves me correctly) Muslims as well as your offensive comments about U.S. troops being permanently posted overseas along with your pathetic response to my question about how U.S. citizens would respond to having foreign troops permanently posted in your nation FOR ANY REASON (sorry about shouting, but you're dealing with a pissed off, yet polite Canadian).
Use what is left of your brains - is it glue that your sniffing? - and consider this for a moment: Is it rational for me to try to make your comments up?
I'll concede this much up front, and I mentioned it in my last post that I would welcome any corrections you could offer to my assertions. Beyond that, I stand by exactly the words that I have attributed to you, and if you want me to go to the considerable effort of tracking down the exact wording, I EXPECT (sorry) you to offer me some form of payment for my time.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 11, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
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the kind of lunatic gun culture that has nearly destroyed the United States.
To paraphrase Mick Jagger, "I'm nearly destroyed!"
Now, about those 300 million massacred Muslims - was that during the Crusades?
Remember, keep it civil, yer a Canuck, eh?
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