The Gun debate sandbox


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Social climber
Aug 27, 2014 - 09:04am PT
I'd blame the parents #1 for even bringing the kid to that place.
WTF were they thinking?


the parents were "thinking" just how terribly important it is that their children be able to
defend themselves from robbers and muggers, and stuff


Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 10:45am PT
That dude was in the military? He must have done KP his whole time.
Stevie Wonder could have seen that coming.

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 27, 2014 - 11:26am PT
The U.S. Military doesn't field sub-machine guns. His service experience didn't apply here.

Maybe Israeli or European military service would have helped.

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
There are so many things wrong with the 9 year old video it is hard to know where to start. I can't even imagine why her parents thought that was good idea, and who the hell would agree to go along with it?

People treating deadly weapons like toys.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Aug 27, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
Why is Arizona gun-nut central?


Trad climber
Western America
Aug 27, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
That is so Darwin!

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
Guns don't ensure justice, they subvert it.

+100 for the most ridiculous post of this entire thread, and that's saying something.

Yup, the US military and police forces (not to mention many responsible citizens) are just out there subverting justice with every round fired.


Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 27, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
I actually used an Uzi on a mission in 1964. There is no way that one should be in the hands of a nine year old under ANY circumstances.. I wonder what those calcified right wing jerks at the NRA will say about this?

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
I am no gun expert, but you could almost see this coming. Bracing with the left leg with the instructor standing to the left and not behind. You just knew the recoil was going to rotate her toward him.

Some people need to treat killing machines with more respect. Very sad for everyone involved.

Aug 27, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
Where I grew up rare was the 12 year old (boy) who didn't have firearm experience. I always tried to avoid Uzi's after having carried and fired an UZI multiple times (I just do what I'm told), they are inaccurate little beasts which work best on spray and pray mode close in. I see stupid assed things all the time. Yes, this was another one on a long list of very stupid things. Yesterday some guy on the east coast dug out a huge boulder from the downhill side and it rolled over him. Dumb things are everywhere. Family of 4 drowned when one of them stepped into a hole in a otherwise benign and peaceful lake and the remaining 3 family members each in turn drowned while rushing to help. Here's the stupid part of that as I consider saving a person drowning to be a good thing and not stupid, all 4 drowned a very short distance from a stand of free life vests that had a large sign on it saying: FREE, PLEASE PUT ONE ON YOUR CHILD which had been placed there to prevent this kind of thing.


Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 27, 2014 - 03:57pm PT
Right you are....Uzis are designed to only be effective at close quarters. They are basically made for urban environments to be used in buildings. Their only use is for killing fellow humans. They are completely worthless for hunting.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
I just heard about this tragedy and it brought to mind a day 6 years ago when I was shooting with some doctor friends and their kids.

One of the docs had a Mac 11 (a full auto 9mm with a VERY fast cyclic rate. There is a photo of me shooting the same gun with tracers at night in my R&I interview 10 years ago).

He was going to let the other's 11 year old daughter try it out, but I called a cease fire and suggested that if she tried it to first use a clip with 1 round, and then another with 3.

First shot was fine, but with the 3 shot clip she climbed the muzzle more than 60 degrees!!!
Good thing she didn't have 4. Her dad and I immediately called a halt to kids shooting subguns, but it was more a function of the other doc's irresponsibility (he did other stupid stuff since and I don't shoot with him any more). I think she could easily learned to control the weapon. In Africa there are 11 year old soldiers who wield AKs effectively.

That instructor should have known to do a similar low cap clip routine to get her used to the climb.
Likely she could have learned to shoot an Uzi like an Israeli girl.

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
And finally a legit reason for wearing a Google Glass!

The computerized & networked aiming scope on
Tracking-Point rifles feeds video to Google glass
For those everyday around the corner shots we all have to make.
Thanks Google!


Somewhere out there
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
It's a good idea to load guns and hand them to children...

Who knew there might be a problem with that?

Not this guy

I say every rule was followed....
I say every measure was taken to secure every step of the way in this case...
I say all the humans involved were all skilled and knowledgeable in firearms use and safety....

In hindsight, I say it must have been really necessary for the parents of this child to get the child shooting early....

Not to mention.... In this case.... which was the good guy with the gun... which was the bad guy with a gun? Seeing how so many gun nuts see themselves in their own staring roles in Dirty Harry films of their own making....

But.... don't mind me... I'm an admitted Idiot.. and yet I know that this situation did not have to happen....

Hey, gun nuts... who is going to be there to tell the kid if this was a good kill or not?
Who wants to guess on the cost for therapy for this child? (Wait, this happened in Arizona.... there may be no cost to the child for any therapy.... this is never going to become the new normal in Arizona.)

Hey gun nuts.... Don't be put off by my seemingly anti gun stances... and certainly don't take anything this idiot says personally... I don't know you, gun nut... How can I possibly have meant your attitude needs adjusting? Plus, I tend to not see the gun as necessary accessories to my wardrobe, which is why I tend to stay away from them... and stay alive a day longer at a time.

Aug 27, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Hello, my name is Charles Darwin.

I would like to tell you why I support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms....
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
I bet the dead instructor idiot was a republican.

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 28, 2014 - 06:30am PT
Interesting, does it make you feel better about yourself if the instructor was a "republican"?

Sheep will never change...
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 28, 2014 - 06:41am PT
Yeah dummy. Because when kids get into climbing gear nothing happens. Because 10,000 plus people are murdered with guns in 'Murica every year. Climbing murders must be pretty rare. Because 30,000 depressed Americans kill themselves with guns annually.

But mostly because cowardly gun nuts can't even stay on topic because they are afraid, always afraid.

( mostly to Johnny rigs deleted stupidity)
But, yes it affirms my judgement when stupid f*#ks are stupid across the board. Yep, feelin good.

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 28, 2014 - 08:35am PT
So much misdirected rage Flip Flop.... I feel sorry for you.

Being happy about the accidental (although obviously self-negligent) death of another person is pretty twisted.

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Aug 28, 2014 - 09:22am PT
Yup, the US military and police forces (not to mention many responsible citizens) are just out there subverting justice with every round fired.

Says the guy who supports shooting a fleeing unarmed thief?


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