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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 11, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 12, 2014 - 07:55am PT
TradEddie posted
I'm still waiting for any legitimate reason for a civilian to carry a loaded military rifle in a public place (or even a single shot hunting rifle, or black powder musket for that matter). What you do on private property is your business.

Because if you don't exercise your rights then you lose them, see? That's why I'm always telling soldiers that they cannot stay at my house and screaming offensive words in public places. It's what the Founding Fathers would have wanted.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 12, 2014 - 09:08am PT
People carrying guns are more likely to get shot, especially in self-defense situations.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html#.U8Fcr41dX2w

Edit -

I will concede that they say the study was just beginning and the the dynamics are not completely understood, but this is a cause for concern.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 12, 2014 - 09:20am PT
Funny how many that argue against guns know damm little about them.. "Military rifles"??? Im willing to bet there wasnt ONE "military rifle" displayed in Texas by a citizen,, not ONE..

I have never argued against guns, only for laws that make it more difficult for criminals to get guns, mandatory training for carrying guns in public places and laws that make irresponsible ownership a criminal offense. I would also make dealers subject to much more extensive requirements with regards to security and record-keeping, and much stricter criminal punishments for those that fail to meet them.

As for the "military rifles", I was simply trying to avoid the "assault rifle" quagmire. There was a picture of a man carrying an AK-47 style rifle in Target a few pages back, you can classify it however you want, just give me an answer to my question.

Lastly, I voluntarily served in the military reserves of my native country, if your definition of a military rifle is a full-auto rifle in use by the military, I've fired far more "military rifles" than you.

TE
Bargainhunter

climber
Jul 12, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
Interesting article linked above by Stahlbro about carrying a gun increases your chances of being shot. I've often wondered if conceal carry emboldens people to "stand their ground" and escalate situations tragically, because instead of compromising in a conflict one can be inflexible and increasingly provocative knowing that one has the ultimate backup.

I disagree with Ron about open carrying is a deterrent. It could also be seen as provocative and put you at risk of being targeted. Almost all US LEO these days wear bullet proof vests, even park rangers these days, just because their uniform, authority and appearance ironically MAKE them a target. I think there is a criminal/mentally ill element out there that might want your gun and try to steal it and target you, and others that may want to push your buttons and heckle you about it and get confrontational.

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 12, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
And feel free to point out any recent cases of LEOs just being targeted out of the blue due to a uniform or carrying a gun that werent in the act of a chase ,arrest or case working.

WHAT FREAKING PLANET are you living on? It just happened in your own state, national news, two of your fellow militiamen/Bundy supporters murdered two cops sitting drinking coffee then murdered a CCW gun nut.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 12, 2014 - 04:57pm PT
No gun shows have ever been victim of armed robbery that i know of as well. Yet another "gun rich environment".

How many people have been accidentally shot at gun shows over the past year, compared to say, knitting conventions held in the same venues?

Most gun shows around here prohibit loaded weapons inside, so does my local gun store. Do you allow open carry within your store, if so how will you be able to tell a robber from a customer before it's too late?

Oh,
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Cops-Gunman-shoots-clerk-steals-6-firearms-in-Northeast-gun-shop-robbery.html


TE

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 12, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
And feel free to point out any recent cases of LEOs just being targeted out of the blue due to a uniform or carrying a gun that werent in the act of a chase ,arrest or case working

Happened in Lakewood near Seattle not that long ago. Guy walked up to four officers in a coffee shop, opened fire, and killed them all. And not long after that the same thing happened to a Seattle PD officer -- sitting in his car when a guy walked up and shot him.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 12, 2014 - 06:32pm PT


Doughnuts kill more cops every year (by several orders of magnitude)than guns.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 12, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Driving around is the most dangerous thing cops do. Car accidents are how most of them are killed.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 12, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
Yes, lightening bolts and cars are the weapons of choice for killing children in schools.

They should outlaw those kind of weapons.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 12, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
And despite the fact my children are several orders of magnitude more likely to be killed by lightning + bears + snakes + disease than a mass school shooting, I still let them play outside all the time.

Just crazy I know.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jul 12, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
Be more specific about why, Chaz...

Credit: Tim Horton
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 12, 2014 - 10:32pm PT
Yes, I forgot to add climbing and all those things you said as more weapons for a person to use in short and quick mass murders.
jonnyrig

climber
Jul 13, 2014 - 10:51am PT
Nice Ron. I just got back from metal detecting. Found three dollars in change, some junk, and a wireless speaker.

Found out I got a deer tag last week, so I'm going to have to get out and sight in myself, very soon. It pays to check that "alternate" box on your tag apps.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:15am PT
He doesn't have a job.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:33am PT
Then you should know the difference eh? There were NO "military" rifles there. The rifles that were there were NO DIFFERENT than any other SEMI auto deer rifle. A 308 rifle in a classic model is the very same as a 308 in an AR STYLE. They fire one shot with each squeeze eh.

Ron, the AK-47 is clearly a military rifle, while I'm not aware of any military using semi-automatic variants, it must be equally clear that being full-automatic doesn't define a military rifle, unless you consider the M1 or the L1A1 FN not to be military rifles either.

An AK-47 with open sights is both a piss-poor choice of hunting rifle, and a criminally negligent weapon for self-defense in a crowded grocery store. I fully understand the point of the Texas protests, my issue is not with their grievance about open carry of pistols, it is with the fact that legal open carry of loaded long guns (of any type) serves no benefit to anyone except to terrorists and murderers. If only the criminals have guns, then the cops will know who to shoot.

Hunters and target shooters can simply unload and/or case their weapons before leaving private property, sportsmen in every other country can manage this simple process. Carrying any loaded gun in a public place should be subject to at least the equivalent testing and eligibility process as driving a car. I can't open carry a fishing rod in PA unless I'm displaying my fishing license, yet unlicensed concealed carry of a firearm is only misdemeanor. That's F'd up.

TE
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:52am PT
Safe to say, not one military on earth fields semi-auto AK's.
jonnyrig

climber
Jul 13, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
Define what is carrying in public places? Downtown? The greater metropolitan areas? US Forest Service lands? BLM lands? Walmart?
Bargainhunter

climber
Jul 13, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
Ron,

This is what I was concerned about in my post yesterday regarding open carry making you a target, and law enforcement being disproportionally targeted as well. In other words, carrying guns can increase your risk of violence and is not always a deterrent.

As this example in today's LA Times demonstrates:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-jersey-city-police-officer-killed-20140713-story.html
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