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jghedge

climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
"since 2004, Congress has inserted language in annual spending bills requiring the FBI to destroy firearm transfer records within 24 hours of approval — as Congress did most recently in fiscal year 2012."

Hahahahahaha

Whoops


As usual, Rong hasn't the SLIGHTEST CLUE what he's talking about.


Again, when do we get to debate people who have their facts together?


If the feds aren't keeping track of gun sales, then how do we know the gun stores are?





Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:51pm PT

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a point-of-sale system for determining eligibility to purchase a firearm in the United States of America.


Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders are generally required by law to use the NICS to determine if it is legal to sell a firearm to a prospective purchaser. Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS determines if the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm under the Gun Control Act of 1968. It is linked to the National Crime Information Center and the Interstate Identification Index among other databases maintained by the FBI.[1]

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is applicable to sales from federally licensed dealers. Sales of firearms by private sellers are allowed to proceed without a background check unless required by state law. These regulations remain in place at gun shows, where no special leniency is granted to licensed sellers, and no additional requirements are placed upon private sellers.

NICS is accessed by an FFL, on the firearm buyer's behalf, by phone or computer. When contacted by phone, the communication is either with an FBI/NICS Examiner, who directly receives the information submitted by the FFL, or by proxy through a Call Center representative, who forwards the information electronically to the NICS. Whether an Examiner or a Call Center representative is contacted depends on the state in which the sale is conducted. When using a computer, an FFL representative can submit the buyer's information using the E-Check system which is a web interface to the NICS. An FFL can be an individual or an organization such as a retail store. An organization registered as an FFL minimizes the overhead involved in managing identification for multiple individuals who are employed by the organization.

By law, an FFL must receive a response from the NICS within 3 days or the firearm sale can proceed, although the FFL seller is not required to do so. If, after 3 days, the sale is completed and later it is determined the buyer should not have received the firearm, then the firearm must be retrieved.

Contents [hide]
1 Firearm Denial Appeals
2 Persons subject to prohibition
3 References
4 See also
wiki
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
So Yes wes, the record keeping at the fed level falls short, but the states, which should have that power, still have those records. It was the State agency of public health that put the kai-bosh on the democrat legislators attempt to purchase a weapon. Not the Brady check.

So is a fed registry even needed? So far they have given many examples of LOUSY record keeping. But a local LEO only need to make one call to find out the exact originating buyer from any local gun store, FFL dealer or authorized gun show participants.



Think about the USFS these days wes,, then think,, do you really want the FEDS to be keeping records of anything? Do you want them to balance your bank account? Or provide you with world peace? Wouldnt you rather your state have the controls,, a little "closer to home"..? I mean,, we want the FEDS to decide who can marry who, who has to wear seat belts or be in child seats, what type of friggin light bulbs we can use-- wtf over!??
NONE OF THAT is/was ever the FEDS business.








edit: Norton, not sure of your point. You must SIGN a brady form even at gun shows or from ffls..A physical form, which must be maintained by the seller. Perhaps the FEDS truly arent worried about who has what. Perhaps they think a check at the time is good enough. Which really, if any non- felon wants, can fool that system until caught red handed. And any other system they want to try and invent.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
It was the State agency of public health that put the kai-bosh on the democrat legislators attempt to purchase a weapon. Not the Brady check.

Which "democrat" legislator was that?

But a local LEO only need to make one call to find out the exact originating buyer from any local gun store, FFL dealer or authorized gun show participants.

And what ONE number would they call?


Do you want them to balance your bank account?

Sure, at least someone would be doing it!

Or provide you with world peace? Wouldnt you rather your state have the controls

Yes, when Pearl Harbor was attacked we should have left it up to Hawaii to handle it. When NY was attacked, we should have left it to them to hunt down bin Laden. I'm sure NV can import its own oil and other resources with state to country trade agreements. Genius.

we want the FEDS to decide who can marry who

No, we want to ensure that if legal contracts and associated benefits are available they should be available to any citizen, regardless of their gear.

who has to wear seat belts or be in child seats

If my tax money pays for uncovered medical expenses and scraping brains off the pavement, etc... then absolutely!

what type of friggin light bulbs we can use-- wtf over!??

Dear gawd, what are you rambling about now?
jghedge

climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
"what type of friggin light bulbs we can use-- wtf over!??"


Hahahahaha, idiot.


Next they'll be trying to take the lead out of our gasoline, because it "supposedly" results in cleaner air!!!

I mean, WTF???

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
wes, the MAIN job of the FEDS was/is to protect us from foreign invasion. Not to micro manage our lives through endless legislations and laws totally redundant for the most.


And it was a democrat legislator from Las Wages - the one threatening other legislators with violence, same one that tried to sue the state to let him back in the legislature doors and is now being booted out of the legislature. A Nevada first.
And Wes,, it was state laws that cleaned up Calis air (somewhat), not the feds..http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/01/california-sues/
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
What ONE number to local LEOs call for the exact originating buyer of a particular gun?


And yet, as far as I can tell, Brooks has never been convicted of anything... could go to another gun store and purchase a firearm?... and there is nothing stopping him?

Yeah, no need for stricter gun control laws...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
the RIGHT one duh...Here in NV the dept of puclic safety i would imagine.

As far as unkown handguns, that is ALL after the fact investigation. Which there never is a critical time element- as cases are backed up for months in advance, so research can be done by reviewing the licensed dealer listings and calling each one. Thats how that is done.


No,, Brooks was stopped by the dept of public safety and all licensed dealers have info regarding him, so the only way he can get one is the black market or a gun runner, or maybe his mum. Or go to CALI and buy one there.The LAWS only affect one of those.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
But a local LEO only need to make one call to find out the exact originating buyer from any local gun store

So how many criminals do you think use guns purchased from local gun stores?

so research can be done by reviewing the licensed dealer listings and calling each one.

Well, THAT sounds like a good use of tax payer money! What century is it?


The LAWS only affect one of those.

Which one?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Sure you could ask the feds to do it,, the wait 6 months for an answer..Guns are the biggest commodity in the world.. You think any laws new or old have/will work in keeping them out of the hands of those with bad intent? I dont.

As much as it is states rights to concoct all manner of gun laws as they now do, why is it up to FEDS to make registrys? And per the second amendment, shouldnt they just conclude everyone is or has the right to be armed?


edit Which one you asked-- Just the Mum. She hasnt broken a law UNTIL she gives the gun to sonny.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
Guns are the biggest commodity in the world.. You think any laws new or old have/will work in keeping them out of the hands of those with bad intent?

Hold up... WORLD? I thought it was genetics and/or Merkin culture?

Well, okay, since you mention the rest of the world... it works well in England and...

Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability. However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.

Rogers, Heather. "Gun Control: An International Comparison". IVN. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Kopel, David B (1993). "Japanese Gun Control". Asia Pacific Law Review. Asia Pac. L. Rev. (2): 26–52. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Adelstein, Jake (6 January 2013). "Even gangsters live in fear of Japan's gun laws". The Japan Times. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Fisher, Max (23 July 2012). "A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths". The Atlantic. Retrieved 11 February 2013.


And per the second amendment, shouldnt they just conclude everyone is or has the right to be armed?

That is absurd. Clearly everyone does NOT have the right to be armed. If that was the intention our brilliant 4fathers would have said just that... instead they put it in the context of a "well regulated militia" which you all conveniently ignore.

Self-protection, fine, whatever, I'm not opposed to that... but that doesn't mean EVERYONE has the right to be armed. And implying a federal registry infringes on the right to have an bear arms is 100% fuking absurd.



Brooks was stopped by the dept of public safety and all licensed dealers have info regarding him, so the only way he can get one is the black market or a gun runner, or maybe his mum. Or go to CALI and buy one there.The LAWS only affect one of those.

...

She hasnt broken a law UNTIL she gives the gun to sonny.

Really? There are no laws that affect black market sales or affect a gun shop in CA selling him one?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
and yet Wes, neither one of us live in the UK or Japan..And speaking for me only, i never will.. I happen to like the country very much. I havent seen near enough of it or met all its geographically varied people. There are other countries that are gorgeous,, Norway and the like, yet i dont want to live any where else.


Violent gun use has been coming down in general trends -up in some areas down in others. That at the same time gun sales soared and CCW classes filled. The main medias, however try to paint a whole other picture knowing that fresh bait is the best and they soak it for all its worth.
jghedge

climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
"Self-protection, fine, whatever, I'm not opposed to that... but that doesn't mean EVERYONE has the right to be armed."

But as shown by the stats you just quoted from other countries ("Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher..."), the best "self-protection" is outlawing them, which has the PROVEN effect of taking guns away from the people you need to be protected against.

Claiming you need to be armed to defend yourself against the people you advocated arming in the first place is, in a word, crazy.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
I agree, this country is great. I think it would be better if it wasn't so easy for criminals to have their relatives/friends buy guns for them.

Update... apparently FFL's only have to report when someone purchase more than 2 guns in a one week period. That is absurd considering nobody I have ever met buys more than 1 or 2 a year. Why not require reporting for those who buy more than 1-2 a year? So what if you get reported... it wouldn't be illegal, just suspicious... if you haven't done anything wrong you'd have nothing to worry about.


Yeah hedge, we understand, you want ALL guns outlawed. That is your opinion... I'm not fighting with or against you on that one. I happen to like shooting guns... I just think there should be WAY more quality control on the caliber of people who are allowed to keep and bear them.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Here ya go Wes some history on 2nd amendment phrases:


Before addressing the verbs “keep” and “bear,” we interpret their object: “Arms.” The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. Thus, the most natural reading of “keep Arms” in the Second Amendment is to “have weapons.” At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to “carry.” In numerous instances, “bear arms” was unambiguously used to refer to the carrying of weapons outside of an organized militia. Nine state constitutional provisions written in the 18th century or the first two decades of the 19th, which enshrined a right of citizens “bear arms in defense of themselves and the state” again, in the most analogous linguistic context—that “bear arms” was not limited to the carrying of arms in a militia. The phrase “bear Arms” also had at the time of the founding an idiomatic meaning that was significantly different from its natural meaning: “to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight” or “to wage war.




And i believe you refer to multiple hanguns sales in a given period which they are supposed to report,, but each sales requires the same form to be filled out. And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers, and most likely record ALL their phone calls as well. See the MANY "clandestine" and "cyber" sections of the NDAA for fundings of those.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Keep reading Ron... almost there...

The term "regulated" means "disciplined" or "trained".[132] In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

In order to be a part of a well-regulated militia, potential or existing, you should have to show some semblance of proper discipline and training. The fact that gun-nuts are complaining about waiting periods suggests a serious lack of proper discipline. Any training classes required?

And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers

BATFE... BATFE... sounds pretty efficient if they know EVERY gun in EVERY store... hmmm... isn't that one of those inefficient FEDERAL agencies?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Wes your argueing semantics that was setlled LONG ago. The 2nd amendment is/has been/ shall always be- about personal protection even FROM a tyranical govt.


edit: what do you think all those cyber and clandestine funds are for Wes- Yeah ,, i think some where there are a but load of computers analyzing away. On a daily basis. I know thats hard to beleive what with our transparent and up front gubbmint..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
You are conveniently ignoring specific words intentionally included by our founding fathers... "well regulated."

Besides, restricting the sales of firearms does nothing to infringe on your right to have and bear them.
jghedge

climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
"I just think there should be WAY more quality control on the caliber of people who are allowed to buy them."

Which is currently impossible, nor do those who shouldn't have them buy them by "allowed" methods anyway.

So since it's not possible to selectively control who gets them...how do we get out gun deaths down to the level of comparable countries?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Wes,, no one response to my question earlier.

What is the diff between universal and brady checks done currently?

Many murderers were never felons previous to their deeds. How to stop them with laws?? Ya Cant..
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