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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Ahhh ya lost me at being a politician.. Id be shot my second week in orfice.

Id be firing all congressmen and senators and arresting any lobbyists that breached the grounds.


and Ive actually been to Conn once.. Saw the mountain there.. Just didnt strike me. When compared to the eastside and all...
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
because different counties, states, and municipalities have different laws about exactly who is to respond to armed security threats

each level has very different responsibilities

for example, the national guard is largely composed of "weekend" warriors, guys with regular jobs who are no match for outfits such as local SWAT teams and national level agents, such as those employed by many federal agencies, not the least of which is DHS

that's why

it's not so simple
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Yes. Swat has them. Why not DHS? If they have to respond to a terrorist threat here, they may need to be capably armed. They would also be fighting in a similar style to what our soldiers are currently doing overseas now, in urban city tactics, so whatever future argument about how they,re training to fight us door to door is hereby decried in a preemptive argument.
What will they do with 1.6bil rounds? Same as you and me. Shoot targets. Train for the day they hope never to need them. I bet target shooters waste more ammo than the military.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
I realize that Norton, yet the mission of the natl guard is natl defense.. Now we have yet another agency designed for such.

Ill remind you of the DHS battle team that landed a blackhawk at a taxidermists place to arrest him over a paper work technicality regarding two dry salted turkey skins from mexico, a sting set up by USFWS.. Thats the sort of non sense they engage in at the drop of a hat. THAT REALLY happened.

And Rick Sumner and i were circled repeatedly while we were climbing at a local crag a while back by one of those same black, unmarked blackhawk helos- that now regurlarly search the area for illegals and plantations. Is that really a fed concern? Or is that a STATE and local concern? They do not leave it up to the local LEOs about illegals and known gang members as they let them live behind the laws and policies. So i see DHS becoming more and more into the scenes from my local crags to not being able to find ammo so i can go target shoot.





edit: Hillrat,, they ordered enough ammo to last in a hot war 20 years worth. Unprecedented order actually.

thats way more that ill shoot in a lifetime, times 1000...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
Why does DHS need assualt vehicles HERE? D

Because gun nuts keep talking about "watering the tree of liberty" and using their guns to fight the government. DUH.


Seriously? No comparison?

Seriously, NONE.

I thought anything with potential to kill would be game for this thread.

Only if you want to continue setting up straw men to be knocked down, over and over and over.


So name something else that we actually CAN compare.

Let me see... what else can ANY non felon purchase, regardless of sanity, that is capable of killing dozens of innocent people in minutes?

Apples to oranges is still fruht ya know.

But oranges have WAY more nutrients.


Hillrat,, they ordered enough ammo to last in a hot war 20 years worth.

Ron, we have been over this several times. They ordered 1.6 billion rounds to be used over the next 5 years. They have over 100,000 armed personnel. That's 3200 rounds a year each for training and everything. Are you claiming that is unreasonable? I know people who go through 100+ a month for fun.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Ok,, ill bite,, tell me exaclty, what sort of scenario you see in which "terrorists" are fought with battle geared DHS . Do you see some JihaderFreaks massing as an army here and attacking some city? We never needed the DHS before so is this paying off now? The terrorist attacks weve endured thus far were by small groups, not armies. Frankly i dont want some unmarked blackhawk with a guy at the door gun circling me while i climb. Makes me a bit nervous..ESPECIALLY when the f*cker doesnt even wave back!!!
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
If DHS is overstepping bounds, then that should soon be born out in US courts.

How do you know the blackhawk was DHS, or did you just assume that?

I see far more logic in the shortfalls of supply and demand when the public makes a panic run on ammo at the local Walmart. DHS didnt run down here to buy six boxes of every pistol caliber on the shelf.

Look, conspiracies can happen, but seldom on such a grand scale. You just cant have THAT many people keeping a secret agenda that would be so obviously wrong. The majority of DHS employees are people like us that just needed jobs.

Where sh#t goes down is during times of crisis when people get scared and controlling, like Katrina, where there actually were a few reported gun confiscations.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Let me see... what else can ANY non felon purchase,
pretty open-ended so far...
regardless of sanity,
that's a tougher one to firm up reliably...
that is capable of killing dozens of innocent people
and, in the case of hundreds of millions of guns, very, very rarely does...
in minutes?
And there it is: the proximate and dramatic thing again.

The last two words are what the whole "urgency" bit hinges upon. There are many other things that satisfy all but the last two words, and these do much more damage in all respects. But they are legal and even more unlikely to be legislated against than guns, because they simply lack the proximity and drama that make for, well, dramatic and sexy news fodder.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Things a felon can purchase, potentially deadly-
cars, trucks, gasoline, matches, propane, poison,
free online books on explosives, geurilla warfare tactics,
other chemicals,
and more.

Lucky us, criminals and terrorists tend toward the dumber side, usually.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Hillrat,, it had NO N number - a 100% unmarked blackhawk, typical of DHS..I see them fly over nealry every day here now... They run a regular routine flight pattern, same every day.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Generally conspiracies don't involve public requests for bids on contracts.

hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
So- non milhtary? Not the national guard? DHS is the only unmarked birds? Proof please.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Military has very standard markings and i also see those regular-- along the highway 50 corridor.. Navel ships from Fallon NAS. DHS is the only ones i know without an ID number or other standard govt markings. They have none at all. So imo, thats who they-wuz. The guy at the thirty cal was dressed in a black flight suit wearing what looked like ray ban "wayfarers" and a black helmet. He had a moustache also-- looked right at me and DIDNT wave the unfreindly f*ck anyhoo.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
Fair enough. Here,s a couple possibilities for ya-

they may not be the only unmarked birds.
They may have a training ground nearby.

Remember, i live just down the street from ya, and i,ve yet to see them. Not saying you havent, but im a hard sell for conspiracies.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
There are many other things that satisfy all but the last two words, and these do much more damage in all respects. But they are legal and even more unlikely to be legislated against than guns

Things a felon can purchase, potentially deadly-
cars, trucks, gasoline, matches, propane, poison,
free online books on explosives, geurilla warfare tactics,
other chemicals,
and more.

Automobiles (so glad we get to go over this one AGAIN): "legislated against", registered, insured, and ESSENTIAL for the daily lives of most Americans... at least until we get a major overhaul of our infrastructure. All automobiles are required by law to have safety belts... are all guns required by law to have a safety? In all but 1 state you are required by law to wear the safety belt. You can avoid cars if you stay off the roads. You can't avoid guns simply by staying off the shooting ranges.

Explosives: "legislated against", http://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to/explosive-storage-requirements.html NOTE: No similar regulations for the safe storage of guns.

Gasoline: I'm actually surprised more people don't blow up gas stations, but see "explosives"

Books: don't kill. Most of the sh#t in the Anarchists Cookbook are feeble at best.

Tactics: Where can you purchase tactics?


and yes madbolter...

Cigarettes: regulated, and very easy to walk away from.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Well Hillrat, i see them nearly EVERY day. The come on parallel to highway 50 from the east, then circle over me to the north, hover for a moment nearly over Moonlight "ranch" then turn and follow the river corridor as far as i can see them. Some days ive had six and seven of differnt types of helos. The other day we had EIGHT C-130s come over following the river corridor east at about 300 feet agl. Ive taken MANY pics of em actually, and the f*ckewrs dont wave here either!.. There were multiple plantations by illegals found around here last year . That on FED lands for the most. Could have a bearing here. Like i said they circled Rick and I like three or four times up at Dinosaur..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
I think Ron is mostly upset that "the f*ckewrs dont wave"... but I'm only basing that on the fact that he has mentioned it several times.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
Well Ron

it sounds like your neighborhood is getting a lot of law enforcement attention

pretty much exactly what you want, right?

and judging from your comments about how shitty it is where you live, about time too!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Well doood,, as a former fed employee, there was this thing that became called "the host" program,, which I Taught to the noobs during their training phases. DHS is a govt service, therefore MY employee. Yeah- they should damm well wave back if waved at. I sure as hell did..



edit: Norton, Nev is one of the states receiving the most illegals recently. That includes cartels branches as well that grow pot on federal lands, and mix meth in camp trailers they power with propane bottles the steal elsewhere. Now, Since we have some 900 KNOWN gang members now in Cartoon city, why is it the Sheriff can not touch them UNTIL they get caught after comitting a crime. Most are ILLEGAL to begin with. If they are part of a KNOWN CRIMINAL GANG, they ARE the worst of circumstances we could wish on an enemy let alone ourselves. they should be KNOWN to the public. We have a right to know who they are as much as the sheriff, since we are possible victims to be. But GOVT policies protect them. If entering this country illegally to begin with,AND with known CRIMINAL ties, then your not entitled to constitutional right- your an invading enemy .
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
Just sayin, if you got a little chemistry and a recipe book.,

Try any surplus store for tactics. Should we have the how-to manuals so easily accessible? Its not the anarchist cookbook crap, its the same manuals used to train our own armed forces. There are other books around with accurate explosives recipes. Its free stuff. Cars- NOT essential for convicts. Agreed, theyre regulated. Not enough. Too many "accidental" deaths, by far.

Like i said (yeah, lets go over it again!), there are such things as reasonable regulations. you and me just disagree on what those are and how effective theyed be.

And i like berries better than apples or oranges, regardless of the nutrients. Just sayin.
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