The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 4021 - 4040 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
MadB,, its the same as the IGNORED nightly gangland shootings in every major poulation center we have. Instead of removing that element of people from the equation, we will tap dance around that so politicians can garner more support.. Instead of REMOVING every "known criminal gang member" in this country (100s of thousands) , they seek to further regulate guns for law abiding citizens. No sense what so ever. If they were truly worried about the homiced numbers here, removing ILLEGAL CRIMINAL GANG MEMBERS would be a very big start to reducing those numbers. Instead they garnish all of thirty seconds of local news if that.



edit: Frank,, i could do no better than those BRILLIANT men of the colonies..
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Um, you took the questin wrong. I want to know how other people see that as justification

As to site specific closures?. Auburn got closed because somene died. Raptor closures are good, but only needed due to the higher volume of climbers these days. Same with bolt wars. As traffic increases, so will regulation.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
i could do no better than those BRILLIANT men of the colonies..

Who DELIBERATELY guaranteed the right to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, but said nothing about guaranteeing the right to buy any gun, any time, with little or no inconvenience.

the Second Amendment is “not unlimited” and is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” -Conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia


As traffic increases, so will regulation.

As population density increase, so will violent crime.
As violent crime increases, so will gun sales.
As gun sales increase, SO SHOULD REGULATION.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Those who refuse to live within the limits set forth by GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS elected by the PEOPLE of OUR GREAT NATION become outlaws.

It's interesting that you fall back to this position. I mean, I realize that it's the "obvious" position, and I'm not denigrating it. I call it a "fall back" because it is not the case that "the people" of our great nation are doing the electing.

It's far too huge a topic to properly address in this context, but the results of a rat's nest of issues is that a small subset of the eligible "people" even vote. And one of the reasons behind that fact includes that most of "the people" of this country are in effect voting a vote of no confidence in this entire process because it is clear to everybody that it is bought, sold, and paid for.

Even you only moan about the corruption of it when the lobbying is being effectively done against a position you hold. Democrats, Repubs, it doesn't matter, really. Almost all of them a few years ago voted to repeal the campaign finance reform act. By that one vote they all hung up their shingles in as flagrant a fashion as possible, saying: "Corporations, bring it! We're open for business," and in so doing utterly broke faith with "the people" you so quaintly refer to. Yet, nobody's throwing the bums out of office. Every last one of the, regardless of party affiliation.

Even I am tempted every election to say, "Wow, no good choices here. Can I write in, 'Any warm body of any mammalian species other than the listed candidates?' What's the point of this spectrum of 'candidates?' I'm just not going to waste my time this go-round." But I dutifully select the lessor of the evils (as I see it). Most people in this country that could vote don't even do that.

What we have in this country is one majority faction after another. Ironically, it's a majority of the minority!

And, yes, if it goes too much further, there will be blood in the streets. Let's see the economic crisis that emerges when the dollar ceases to be the world's reserve currency. That's "when" not "if." It's going to be a whole new world when we lose the ability to print our way out of debt and the inevitable inflation hits. Again, that's "when," not "if." Then you'll see who "the people" really are, and many, many "good, law-abiding citizens" are going to be outlaws.

I'm not talking "run for the hills." I'm talking things like the purchase/ownership of things like gold and silver being illegal. I'm talking things like debt-restructuring that will (as always) be in the interests of the banks (and government) rather than in our interests. And so on.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
You only regulate LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. It does not matter if five million or fifty million people desire personal protection, huntng weapons, or collectibles. Its an INDIVIDUAL right.


MadB,, inother words - history repeating itself economically and governmentally?;-)
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Regulate a choss pile due to liability? Whu-hut?! So thats ok for some asshat to choose what rocks are appropriate to climb? Care to re-evaluate?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
can you imagine a forced "insurance" policy to go up the cables on Half egg?
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
How about permits to climb in the valley at all?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
But, of course, those other countries shouldn't have outlawed guns, and prevented those deaths, because there are still other forms of preventable deaths that result in more deaths than guns do.

Actually, yeah. The shouldn't have. The point is that a FREE society entails risks (to all, including children) that a police state does not entail. If the euro-democracies want to legislate away more and more of their liberties, that doesn't mean that we should.

The last thing the USA was ever intended to be was yet another European Socialist Democracy. Madison and Hamilton BOTH very specifically stated that this was the LAST thing this nation was to become. Want me to quote some Federalist Papers passages?

No, of course not. Because the stock response to what our founders intended for this nation is: The Constitution was written to be a fluid document, so that we could adapt and change with the times.

The fact that this "argument" completely ignores the principles that are changeless and devolves into faction just rolls right off like rain water.

Furthermore, the "it's been proven to work" line doesn't fly. It has not been proven to work. Show me one correlation, and I'll show you another.

One thing Ron's got right for SURE is that if you are serious about reducing gun violence across the board, you need to reduce GANGS. After accidents and suicides, gun deaths are perpetrated almost exclusively by gangs and against other gang members. Oh, but, that gets all racial up in the hood.

However, when you see a gang-banger with that little teardrop tattooed under the corner of their eye, what you are seeing is a giant, neon, flashing sign that broadcasts: "I am a murderer."

Fine. Open season. Even a bounty on such trash. Shoot on sight. Yup, it would be bloody and messy for awhile as "the people of this great nation" take their nation BACK from these punks. But we lack the WILL to actually hold these pricks accountable for what they ADVERTISE that they do, and what they do in plain sight.

It's a free speech issue to be able to wear gang colors? Really? Well, perhaps in the spirit of another fundamental principle, that of self defense, we should consider that "speech" as a proximate threat and respond accordingly.

Your making guns a bit harder for law-abiding citizens to get is NOT going to even touch the fundamental problem.

Again, I have NO problem with such laws. Have at it. I've been saying that all along. Do it! But follow up, as you say, and making smoking in the home illegal too. KIDS cannot just walk away from the smoking going on around them. It's in their HOMES. So, fight that fight while you're at it. Then at least I'll believe that you're more than talk. So, yeah, pass all the laws you want.

But just don't claim the moral high ground. You don't own it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Seems there IS concern in washington,, behind three sets of closed doors of impending doom economically. There are many prominent people who think this directly ties in with over a billion rounds of ammo, assualt vehicles and other weaponry being purchased by home land security. After all its not to repel some foreign invasion, thats for sure.
It has been said that they expect the low income centers of populations will be the first to engage in mass lawlessness. Which if history is any indication, is correct. even marshall law has been made obsolete under the NDAA 2013 bill. As that goes way farther in reach and scope. So OBVIOULSY, DHS expects something as they order massive amounts of armory , guns and ammo enough to last in a hot war 20 years.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
I'm talking things like the purchase/ownership of things like gold and silver being illegal.

That baffles me. I've never seen the value in gold and silver... unless you are filling teeth, hunting werewolves, or building electronics... and you need very little for the latter.

Regulate a choss pile due to liability? Whu-hut?! So thats ok for some asshat to choose what rocks are appropriate to climb? Care to re-evaluate?

I'm not saying it is right. I'm saying that's what happened. Auburn was closed because someone died, right? Do you think they closed it to prevent more deaths, or because they didn't have the resources to deal with potential liability issues?


yet another European Socialist Democracy. Madison and Hamilton BOTH very specifically stated that this was the LAST thing this nation was to become. Want me to quote some Federalist Papers passages?

Yes, please do. I didn't even know a European Socialist Democracy existed in the late 1700's... so I googled it... according to Wikipedia:

"The origins of social democracy have been traced to the 1860s, with the rise of the first major working-class party in Europe"
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
the Second Amendment is “not unlimited” and is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” -Conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia


would that be the same Justice Scalia who is widely regarded as THE absolute MOST Conservative Supreme Court Justice to have possibly ever served?

why does he not respect our beloved Founders, who made no mention of "unlimited"?

why does Scalia not know that I have had enough of his bullsh!t and he and his government better not come to my fuking house and just try to take away MY guns

what is this country coming to, Nazi Germany?

what about FREEDOM to own any damn weapon I WANT?

fuking guvmint, always trying to take away MY RIGHTS
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Maybe its a volume-discount purchare thing, likewhen you see a sale on ammo and stock up Ron?

Where and who constitutes the standing army of the DHS?

Ron, where are they hiding?
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
They disclaim liability n all public grounds by not maintaining.

Gun regulation would ostensibly be to prevent deaths too. But you see more justification in that. Number of gun owners vs number of climbers?

Which is more deadly per capita?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
The DHS army is hiding in the FEMA death camps right next to the mass graves.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
would that be the same Justice Scalia who is widely regarded as THE absolute MOST Conservative Supreme Court Justice to have possibly ever served?

Yep... funny how a decline in the quality of education is resulting in a new breed of ultra-conservatives.

Gun regulation would ostensibly be to prevent deaths too. But you see more justification in that. Number of gun owners vs number of climbers?

Nobody can threaten my life at red point (against my will). No matter how much climbing gear they have or how crazy they are.

You people really need to get your sh#t together. Comparing restrictions on gun sales to potential restrictions on climbing is as absurd as comparing restrictions on cigarette sales to restrictions on candy sales.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
That baffles me. I've never seen the value in gold and silver... unless you are filling teeth, hunting werewolves, or building electronics... and you need very little for the latter.

Personally, I'm with you on this. I would think that hording of food, water, etc. would have more value in a real melt-down crisis.

What I've read, though, is that optimism prevails among those that financially prepare for massive economic restructuring, and precious metals always form the ultimate basis of inter-governmental monetary exchanges. So, when paper money (again) is grounded in precious metal, the metal itself forms the basis of value. Those having the metal, then, have the "real money" upon which paper notes are based. Only in a situation of utter collapse with no hope of economic restructuring would even the metal lose its value, because, as you are noting, in such a scenario, you can't eat gold.

Some famous economist said, "Government is the only entity that can take two valuable commodities like paper and ink, and by their mere combination render the product worthless."
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
I would think that hording of food, water, etc. would have more value in a real melt-down crisis.

I will use my guns to protect my garden from enemies, both 4 legged and 2...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
I will use my guns to protect my garden from enemies, both 4 legged and 2...

That got a good laugh out of me. Well done, sir!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Hillrat,, DHS isnt hiding,, They were showing off thier new assualt vehicles they got from Iraq and Afganny just the other day. Why does DHS need assualt vehicles HERE? Dont we already have a Natl guard in every state? Doesnt local SWAT have theirs every where swat exits?
Messages 4021 - 4040 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews