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Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 7, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
About these points, I don't believe we are in disagreement. I have no problem with keeping guns out of the hands of convicted, violent criminals; and that implies background checks. NP

My bad then. I thought you felt and were arguing that any such government regulation was inherently unconstitutional.

On the (almost) certain failure of Social Security, I don't see it as a failure of commutwhatever-ism, but an example of the inherent (hopefully non fatal) flaw in democracy - most (all?) people don't know what's in their best interest, and vote for politicians from both sides who are more than happy to increase spending and decrease taxes.

"... the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Benign dictatorship, that's what I'll have on my tropical island :-).


Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 7, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
Benign dictatorship, that's what I'll have on my tropical island :-).

Exactly what works in the "island" that is my home. (At least, so I like to think.) LOL

No, I'm not a laissez faire sort of person, either economically or in terms of government intervention as adjudicator between the conflicting positive rights of individuals. We PUT government in place SO AS to have such an adjudicator between us. It's ludicrous, then, to claim that government should stay out of everything. My point is that there are very principled ways that government is supposed to be involved, and those principles themselves have shifted from libertarian to communitarian over time.

Your point that the voters don't even know what's really good for them is very prescient on this very subject. In a very real sense, the Constitution was supposed to protect voters from themselves. That is why the majority SHOULD not always rule, and it is why we were set up as a Republic rather than direct Democracy.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 7, 2014 - 04:29pm PT

It is like you guys have never read Plato's "Republic".

Damn weatherman said it'd be nice so I packed the 4X4 full of guns and targets yesterday and woke to winds gusting out of the NW at over 30 mph.

Not much fun for ultra-long range bench rest shooting so its feed the lizards and tap the taco.

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 7, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
Yahh, Toker! That's what we really need: Philosopher Kings!

C'mon! Let's do it!


Sport climber
May 4, 2014 - 03:32am PT

‘Smart’ Firearm Draws Wrath of the Gun Lobby:

Maryland gun store drops plans to sell 'smart guns' after threats:


Social climber
So Cal
May 5, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
Really big gun!

Really long shot!


Trad climber
May 17, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Gun debate is over. Lunatics like Ron won. Won't change until the body count gets too high.

Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
May 17, 2014 - 10:51am PT

"The craze of 22's is still being felt - as approx 20 million new shooters have entered the shooting world in recent years, and the 22 being a cheaper round is still in extremely high demand."...

So people are finally admitting that the shortage is due to consumer purchases and not the Government buying up all the stock???...

As for the "Stingers"...

I remember well when they came out...

It was the EXCITING .22 round that packed a decent wallop...


Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
May 17, 2014 - 11:02am PT

So the paranoia was unwarranted...

As I figured...

All those freaks claiming Obama and crew were buying up ALL the .22's...

WHY the fuk would they???...


THANKS for confirming what I already knew...



It is the high cost of rounds these days that keeps me from going out, "Plinking"...

I miss the days of walking into a store and grabbing a box of .22's for $1.00 a box (I actually recall $.50, but at that time I was too young to purchase on my own)...


Trad climber
May 17, 2014 - 11:04am PT
That "government is buying up the ammo" lunacy is popular with the millions of Wingnuts gathered in DC this weekend. Oh, did I say millions? I meant dozens.

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
May 17, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
Nice goin Ron! You,ll be ready for chukar season.

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 20, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
The Armed Citizen:
A South Carolina man who donned a bulletproof vest and asked a friend to shoot him was lethally wounded when his friend followed through on the request, authorities said.

Blake Randall Wardell, 25, of Honea Path was killed Wednesday with a single gunshot by 18-year-old Taylor Ann Kelly, authorities said. The bullet missed the protective Kevlar entirely, hitting Wardell's heart instead.

"The bullet went through the top edge of the material. It missed the vest," Lt. Sheila Cole, spokeswoman for the Anderson County Sheriff's Department, told the Los Angeles Times.

Kelly, a friend of the victim, according to Cole, told authorities that Wardell had asked her to shoot him after putting on the vest. Local media reported that he had found the vest in a garage.

Cole added that nothing had been ruled out while investigations are ongoing, and that Kelly was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

May 24, 2014 - 01:24pm PT

Turns out when sheriff's department personnel interviewed the subject they had not viewed the videos he had posted.

Hard to avoid concluding the NSA will not now do keyword searches on all communications. Very simple to do that and then raise a flag with the appropriate authorities. Should not have been necessary, I think, in this case. Egregious.

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 24, 2014 - 01:41pm PT
Son of a movie director.

No wonder the L.A. Times has been withholding the dude's name. Wouldn't want to be the one to report anything that could be seen to be negative to The Industry first.

The guy definitely had head problems. Look at his videos:

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 24, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
OMG Gary, that is darwinism rather than 2nd amendment fodder.

I'm in a strange place with the lowly .22lr.
I still have plenty (including over 1K Stingers), but every time I shoot them I start thinking about replacing them @ at least 12 cents a round which, considering the miniscule ballistic performance compared to 9mm and .223 which go for little more, leaves me no longer having a taste for just blazing away with my plinkers.

It still has a place in my lineup but it is now more functional than useful for practice shooting.
I think that the .22 is on the wane, although there will always be afficionados, fools and cheapskates that make it the #1 round for homicides.

How much are Stingers going for online?
(probably more than factory 9mm)

Trad climber
May 24, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
You're a nut. Guns kill people. You're a nut. Every mass murder. Guns. Nuts. Nuts.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 24, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
You suck.

Trad climber
May 24, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
This tragedy, courtesy of the NRA.

May 29, 2014 - 01:24pm PT


Bill would allow concerned family or friends to appeal to law enforcement for a 'gun violence
restraining order'
May 28, 2014 5:59PM ET
by Marisa Taylor @marisahtaylor

In the wake of Elliot Rodger’s gruesome killing spree on Friday in Isla Vista, California, state
lawmakers on Tuesday said they would propose legislation to create a system of gun-violence
restraining orders to prevent future massacres.

The bill would allow concerned family members or friends to notify law enforcement if they’re
concerned about a loved one’s intent to commit violence. Law enforcement would then
investigate the threat of violence and could ask a judge to approve a restraining order on that
person’s ability to purchase firearms or to keep in their possession already-owned guns.

“When someone is in crisis, the people closest to them are often the first to spot the warning
signs but almost nothing can now be done to get back their guns or prevent them from buying
more," said California state Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner, D-Berkeley, in a release. She
introduced the bill with Assemblywoman Das Williams, D-Santa Barbara.

Under current law, a therapist can notify law enforcement of a client’s intent to commit violence,
and law enforcement can investigate that individual, but a person can only be banned from
purchasing firearms if that person has been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility.

“Parents, like the mother who tried to intervene, deserve an effective tool they can act on to help
prevent these tragedies,” said Skinner. Roger's mother had contacted authorities at least twice
prior to the killings.

And California Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg told the Senate on Tuesday that he
intended to introduce a package of policy and budget proposals on Wednesday to address mental
health care, according to the Sacramento Bee.

Steinberg said the state should create protocols for law enforcement to follow when they’re called
to check on a person’s mental health, requiring officers to look into that person’s firearm
purchasing history and talk to family members and neighbors.

In April, just weeks before Rodger stabbed to death three men at his apartment and shot dead
three more as he drove around the beachside college town of Isla Vista, Rodger’s mother became
concerned when she saw a YouTube video he posted and reportedly called the police.

But Rodger staved them off when they visited his apartment and asked him if he’d had suicidal
thoughts, telling them “it was all a big misunderstanding, that his relative and this other person
had taken things the wrong way and he really wasn’t going to hurt anybody or himself,” according
to Santa Barbara county sheriff Bill Brown.

But had they searched his room, as Rodger wrote in the 141-page manifesto that he emailed to a
handful of people just before his violent rampage, the police officers might have found his three
semi-automatic guns and 400 rounds of ammunition — all legally purchased — “along with my
writings about what I plan to do with them.”

Richard Martinez — the father of Christopher Michaels-Martinez, who died in the attack — urged
students at a memorial service on the University of California, Santa Barbara campus to fight for
tougher gun laws and blamed the shooting on politicians’ inaction, according to the Associated

"They have done nothing, and that's why Chris died," Martinez said. "It's almost become a normal
thing for us to accept this."

In January, the Obama administration strengthened the federal law banning those who have been
sentenced to involuntary mental health treatment from purchasing firearms, clarifying that both
inpatient and outpatient treatment would warrant a ban on gun ownership.

President Barack Obama proposed sweeping gun control measures early in 2013 following the
mass shooting of 26 people at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, but legislation to
strengthen federal background checks were rejected by Congress.

Whether or not the restraining order is created, people notifying the authorities need to set out
for the police the evidence causing them to worry. I am guessing the police detailed to question
Rodgers were scheduled to interview many people that day. They don't have time to research his
videos. Had they been provided the links at the time of the complaint, I think this might
have been avoided. There could be several other good effects from this initiative.

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
May 29, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Finally a bill introduced by Democrats that appears (at least on the surface) to actually make some sense. I wonder what that crooked ass crackpot Steinberg will try and attach to it that will effectively force Republicans and some Democrats to reject it?
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