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WBraun

climber
May 6, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Chaz -- "I'm saying it isn't the law ( or absence thereof ) that makes a safer society."


One guy gets it.

The rest just plain stupid ......
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 6, 2013 - 12:45am PT
there are swimming pool barrier regulations in California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Florida, and probably any state that has private swimming pools...

good thing the Bill of Rights didn't have an amendment

A well regulated fitness being necessary to the serenity of a free state, the right of the people to possess and use swimming pools shall not be infringed.

We'd be having a debate about the attacks on it imposed by state governments regulating their access...

as for drowning in containers, it is a serious problem for children... and one also subject to regulation... there is the Bucket Drowning Prevention Act of 1993 that requires a label warning of the risk...

This was because research showed that there had been 400 accidental drownings of children between 1985 and 1993.

In 1999 alone there were 214 unintentional gun deaths of children (0-19 yrs) and 73 gun deaths to children under five years old, yet no action on the part of the Congress... just taking those 73, it's a higher rate than the deaths due to drowning in buckets...

WBraun

climber
May 6, 2013 - 01:49am PT
The Bruce -- "you idiots a civil society or not?"


We can easily see that you are uncivilized.

Excessive laws to force control.

Mistreatment and slaughter of all living entities only to satisfy your lusty tongue.
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
The coastal redwoods
May 6, 2013 - 04:31am PT
To clear this up as its inaccurate, only certain firearms are illegal in England & Wales (although UK, N Ireland and Scotland have their own firearms laws). There are plenty of guns in the UK but you have to be in posession of a license to own one. Semi autos larger than a .22 rimfire and all handguns are banned. Shotguns are easier to obtain than rifles. I grew up in the country, plenty of guns about there.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 7, 2013 - 11:49pm PT

Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.

Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen, according to a newly released survey by the Pew Research Center.

In less than two decades, the gun murder rate has been nearly cut in half. Other gun crimes fell even more sharply, paralleling a broader drop in violent crimes committed with or without guns. Violent crime dropped steeply during the 1990s and has fallen less dramatically since the turn of the millennium.

The number of gun killings dropped 39% between 1993 and 2011, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported in a separate report released Tuesday. Gun crimes that weren’t fatal fell by 69%.



That's what it's really about. It's not about hunting weapons; it's not about the "National Guard" (which isn't a militia). It's about everyday law-abiding citizens having the ability to resist a tyrannical government. And with that deterrent in place, we've managed 230 years without our government descending into tyranny (though it's come close).

And that's why Progressives hate it. Deep down, progressives (i.e. socialists) are not populists. Deep down, progressives despise the majority of their fellow citizens, and don't trust them at all. They love America but hate most of the Americans. Progressives are entranced with the possibilities presented by a benevolent dictatorship. They ignore the peril, that it can mutate into a malevolent dictatorship because they believe in their own virtue. They're sure it won't happen if they're in charge. As to Democracy? It's a burden, a barrier; it gives the vote to all the rednecks and knuckle-draggers who have been mislead by the evil capitalists (remember the Doctrine of False Consciousness? Pernicious claptrap, that one, but it has a lot of currency on the left) and will resist the Progressive program even though it's Obviously the right thing to do.

If only Progressives, as an enlightened elite, had the ability to impose their program on the rest of us, eventually we'd come around to their point of view. But that means they need dictatorial power, and Democracy prevents that.

And the last and strongest barrier against the creation of a benevolent dictatorship by the Progressive enlightened elite is that damned Second Amendment, and all those firearms owned by the rednecks and knuckle-draggers.

So let's be clear: Progressives don't fear guns in the hands of criminals, or not very much. It's not about school shootings, either. It's guns in the hands, and homes, of law abiding citizens that Progressives hate. Those are the guns they wish were gone; those are the guns they will try to eliminate if they can. Because those are the guns which stand in the way of them taking over.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 01:09am PT
I dare you...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-may-6-2013/nra-convention-2013

Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen

Hell, some here think it has dramatically dropped and risen at the same time!
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 8, 2013 - 09:01am PT
"All your Rights can be infringed by the Gov. at any time you morons, to say that you have any right that is unrestricted is totally at odds with history, the law, and reality."



more importantly, he displays (gleefully and self-righteously, i imagine) his ignorance of the founding principles behind the declaration and the constitution and the perils of atheism

see, f, your joyous pronouncement of the power of government is precisely why tj wrote the declaration and why we now have the constitution

see, f, tj and the other founders understood that we have rights (life, liberty, etc.) given to us by GOD, not the gov...they also knew the only reason to have a gov is to protect those rights from others and the reason for the constitution is to protect those rights from the gov


and f wants more government
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
May 8, 2013 - 10:08am PT
From now on you guys can all bring your guns to Yosemite park. Maybe I 'll need one now, for self defense.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35484383/ns/us_news-life/t/new-law-allows-loaded-guns-national-parks/#.UYlB-oKe6vI
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 8, 2013 - 11:46am PT
in the preamble it reads:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

the power to do so, quite explicitly, comes from the People...

and notice the order of the established principles:

1) form a more perfect Union,
2) establish Justice,
3) insure domestic Tranquility,
4) provide for the common defence,
5) promote the general Welfare, and
6) secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity

though that may be reading it a bit too literally... and who does that?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 11:50am PT
Interesting Kos. It seems like if the founding fathers REALLY were Christian and REALLY wanted a Christian nation they would have mentioned the Christian god, or at least Christianity, in AT LEAST ONE of the early LAWS that govern this nation.

Maybe this is just another case of the liberal "War Against Christianity?" Maybe a conspiracy? We should ask Glenn Beck.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 8, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Why is it that a city with gun laws so strict that you literally can't see one in a museum

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130508/downtown/ban-on-displaying-guns-at-city-museums-should-be-lifted-ald-burke-says

has one of the highest murder rates in the country?


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 8, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Gee, what a question TGT


It must be awful to be proven so wrong, over and over:

1) The state with the absolute most lenient gun laws, Alaska, is also the state with the most deaths by firearms, and by the way, those deaths are NOT "hunting accidents" relatively speaking so much as outright murder, accidental killings, and of course suicide by gun

2) the State with the very toughest gun laws, Massachusetts, is also the state with the absolute lowest rate of deaths by firearms

by the way, TGT, don't think it is only the states at both extremes that blow your "theory" to smithereens, the breakdown for every state very clearly follows the same, but lets assume your are mature enough to take a minute and actually look it up prior to proving yourself wrong, but most of us know better and won't hold our breath waiting on you.........
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 8, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
TGT likes to focus on Chicago, but there are 15 large cities with higher murder rates. Quite a few of these in the conservative, gun luvin, south, like Atlanta, Kansas City, Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, St Louis(twice the murder rate of Chicago).
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 9, 2013 - 07:23am PT
declaration of independence: "all men are created equal...ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights..."


i understand your confusion since you apparently believe government created everything and, apparently, share f's enthusiasm for a government that can take away all your rights

i never claimed god is in the constitution, only that the constitution was written to protect, FROM THE GOVERNMENT, our right to worship, speak, and bear arms
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 9, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Of course
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 9, 2013 - 02:44pm PT


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/09/bleeding-ex-girlfriend-shooting-target-at-nra-conference-promotes-violence-against-women-image/

Bleeding Ex-Girlfriend Shooting Target At NRA Conference Promotes Violence Against Women

Well they did take down the bleeding Obama target. Those wascally NRAnutz.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 9, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
ah, come on... that's just good clean Merkin fun.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 9, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
i understand your confusion since you apparently believe government created everything

you've still got it wrong, The People constituted the government

I understand that may still be too relative for you, but it is an important point... it's a consensus building process, not something absolute.

The People could decide to re-write the Constitution, too, there's nothing which prevents it from happening, no provision that says it cannot happen, and at least some of the authors of the current Constitution thought it should be re-written every couple of decades or so...

The Constitution replaces the Articles of Confederation, which was the initial effort to constitute a US Government, BY THE PEOPLE, which found that document to be inadequate to the task.

Why not re-write it again, in a modern context, and remove the confusion over what the "intent of the founders" was... their intent is in the preamble that I quoted above... and if what they wrote doesn't address the those "intents" in terms of contemporary issues then perhaps it's time to re-write it so that does.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 9, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
And yet today we see teabaggers dressed up in colonial costumes, waving copies of the Constitution around and ranting about how federal taxes are unconstitutional.

Leeches on society.
jstan

climber
May 10, 2013 - 05:07pm PT

The National Rifle Association is holding its 142nd annual meeting in downtown Houston this weekend. Here are the scheduled events:

FRIDAY, May 3
12 p.m.: Welcoming introduction video from President Obama

12:30 p.m.: Security forced to hold back squealing teenage girls in attendance as Wayne LaPierre takes stage

12:35 p.m.: Quick joke about how everyone in attendance must have passed a background check to warm up the crowd

1 p.m.: Most unconscionable words you could ever imagine met with enthusiastic cheers from thousands of people

3 p.m.: Remembrance of the victims of Sandy Hook with an extended moment of loud, scrambling excuse-making

6 p.m.: Reasoned, level-headed debate on whether the Second Amendment continues to hold relevance

SATURDAY, May 4
11:40 a.m.: Man whose face and name will someday be plastered across news websites and televisions across the nation approaches convention registration table

12 p.m.: Performance of ³God Bless America² using guns with variously pitched discharges

4 p.m.: The 46 senators who voted against last month¹s defeated gun control bill collect their winnings

5 p.m.: One-hour triage break to treat afternoon gun wounds

6:30 p.m.: Beaten, tied-up gun control advocates Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Pat Toomey (R-PA) lowered from roof into ravenous audience

8 p.m.: NRA/anti-NRA protest groups mixer

SUNDAY, May 5
 a.m.: Psychological counseling booths open to let gun enthusiasts talk out their deep-seated emotional problems

11 a.m.: Kids Korner workshop featuring popular Decorate Your Own Human Silhouette Target station

12 p.m.: Crowd treated to free T-shirts fired from fully automatic T-shirt cannon with high-capacity magazine

1 p.m.: Intensive five-hour town hall discussion on mental health reform

6:30 p.m.: Man who threatened to murder the President of the United States gives rousing speech to attendees

7 p.m.: Attendees leave convention knowing they have done their duty to protect the freedom of the American people
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