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Heyzeus

climber
Hollywood,Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
http://www.freep.com/article/20130305/FEATURES01/130305010/Gun-violence-annual-cost-12-billion

Gun violence annual cost: $12 billion

USA TODAY


WASHINGTON Gunshot wounds and deaths cost Americans at least $12 billion a year in court proceedings, insurance costs and hospitalizations paid for by government health programs, according to a recent study.

"I think people probably don't understand that as well as they ought to," said Ted Miller, author of a study that found that gunfire deaths and injuries incur a direct societal cost of $32 per gun.

About 20 years ago, Miller calculated the costs to society of shooting injuries and deaths with funding from the National Institute of Justice. He decided to run the numbers again this year after the shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

"I was surprised," Miller said. "Back in 1994, the costs of drunk driving were substantially higher, but it has reversed."

Miller found that total costs per injury had at least doubled or come close for medical care, psychiatric care, court cases, insurance and emergency transport. For example, in 1992, medical care for a fatal shooting averaged $14,500. In 2010, that number reached $28,700.

He found that medical care in 2010 cost $3.2 billion for 105,177 deaths and injuries. In 1992, medical care cost $3 billion for 171,800 deaths and injuries, including 31,674 BB gun shootings, which were not included in the 2010 numbers.

According to government statistics analyzed by Miller for the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, costs to the government in 2010 broke down this way:

$5.4 billion in tax revenue lost because of lost work

$4.7 billion in court costs

$1.4 billion in Medicare and Medicaid costs for firearm injuries and deaths

$180 million in mental health care costs for gunshot victims

$224 million in insurance claims processing

$133 million for responding to shooting injuries

Miller also found that Medicaid covers 28% of hospital admissions for firearm injuries, 37% of hospital days and 42% of medical costs. But in another study, he found that even if people weren't on Medicaid when they were injured, about 8% ultimately enroll in Medicaid after their injuries. "So about half of the medical costs borne by Medicaid may be the best estimate," he said.

A 2012 study by the Vanderbilt Medical Center in Nashville found that 79% of gunshot victims in greater Nashville were enrolled in Medicaid. That compared with 45% of Medicaid enrollment for all other emergency room patients. African-American patients were three times more likely to be gunshot victims than were white patients, the study showed.

Manish Sethi, a trauma surgeon at Vanderbilt University and a researcher for the study, said his team decided to look at the numbers after seeing "a bunch of African-American kids with gunshot wounds" coming through the emergency room. "We have to do something."
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
You defend your president..................with guns
You defend your congressmen................with guns
You defend your governors..................with guns
You defend your celebreties................with guns
You defend your sporting events............with guns
You defend your jewlery stores.............with guns
You defend your banks......................with guns
You defend your courts.....................with guns



You defend your children...............with a sign that says



this is a gun-free zone.




And then call someone with a gun after the fact.










Everyone who is anti-gun has drunk the cool-aid that because it is a societal norm to have a 'security' guard armed in a 'normal' or acceptable location makes that guy more interested in the security of your children than a teacher who knows that child by name.

They think that since someone has a badge (TSA) that the person is suddenly above everyone else, and won't do anything wrong.


The facts are, those people abuse those powers because they are human, just like everyone else without a badge.


This is probably why your founding government wanted the general public to be equal with special powers, so that the special powers weren't accepted as superior humans with rights that no-one else had. The government was supposed to have the organization to protect the liberty of the people, not the power to kill Americans on US soil via video-game from some office.


But that ship has sailed. You just chomping at the bit to set a few more stupid idea ships out of port too?





bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
You defend your president..................with guns
You defend your congressmen................with guns
You defend your governors..................with guns
You defend your celebreties................with guns
You defend your sporting events............with guns
You defend your jewlery stores.............with guns
You defend your banks......................with guns
You defend your courts.....................with guns



You defend your children...............with a sign that says



this is a gun-free zone.




And then call someone with a gun after the fact.

I think that says it all. Really...that is IT!
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Mar 8, 2013 - 12:16am PT
No, this says it all.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 8, 2013 - 12:27am PT
The ENDLESS serpentine lines waiting to get in to the Crossroads Gun S...
The ENDLESS serpentine lines waiting to get in to the Crossroads Gun Show, Rno NV,2/13 the wait in line just to get in was over 1.5 hours.
Credit: Ron Anderson


actually it looked more like this Gary..

And it wasnt because Obama is going to take guns but rather make many illegal - so they are buying them now and , with current massive govt orders, ammo companies cant keep stores supplied with even minimum stock. People that like to sport shoot every weekend tend to go through LOTS of ammo, that currently is scarce.
new world order2

climber
Mar 8, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

How's that working out for them?

Chicago reaches 500 homicides with fatal shooting
http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-reaches-500-homicides-fatal-shooting-145951769.html
Stefan Jacobsen

Trad climber
Danmark
Mar 8, 2013 - 03:03am PT

You defend your president..................with guns
You defend your congressmen................with guns
You defend your governors..................with guns
You defend your celebreties................with guns
You defend your sporting events............with guns
You defend your jewlery stores.............with guns
You defend your banks......................with guns
You defend your courts.....................with guns



You defend your children...............with a sign that says



this is a gun-free zone.




And then call someone with a gun after the fact.



Puzzling statement to someone like me coming from a country where we don't use guns for all that. Not saying that we don't have gun shootings in Denmark, but they are very rare and they usually involve exchange between gangs like Hells Angels. No thanks for that US cultural export by the way, I much prefer Hollywood.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 8, 2013 - 08:29am PT
Stefan - If you guys don't use guns then what exactly do you use for penis extensions in Denmark?

Also, You must forgive Bluey. His following the teachings of christ has a spectacularly unique interpretation. With the emphasis on spectacle. You must admit that you Danes are not particularly spectacular and as we all know, at least on this side of the pond, there is no greater sin than boring.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 8, 2013 - 08:42am PT
Just a question to you sport shooters and weekend warriors, do you take the time after shooting a few thousand rounds to gather up the empty shells and recycle the metal?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 8, 2013 - 08:58am PT
I reload them.

If you are rich enough to leave your brass, someone else will consider it a gift.


Puzzling statement to someone like me coming from a country where we don't use guns for all that. Not saying that we don't have gun shootings in Denmark, but they are very rare and they usually involve exchange between gangs like Hells Angels.

Same thing here. The gun death rate for Caucasian non Hispanics is about the same as Denmark.

Criminal gangs are the big drivers of gunplay,

just a lot more of them here.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 8, 2013 - 09:29am PT
I'm wondering what the facts are about changing the gun laws in a country with as many guns as the US.


What if you do ban and collect them all? Then quit using them to protect the president, congress, banks.





jhedge. Tell me. If you did make the law, you had the option to enforce it and make it happen, even use men with guns to enforce it - tell me how many gun crimes you would expect to see from there on out.


You think the president would be more safe if he wasn't protected by men with guns anymore?


You think banks would have less robberies?



Do you think a change from the country in the world with the most gun ownership and a hell of a lot of gangs, end-user drug and crime groups to the country with no legal firearms by non-special intrest groups (military) would be a change that a president would risk taking?





Do you really think that?









I do agree with you that fewer to no guns is better than guns. No killing is better than killing.

I don't agree that you can create a better world in the US by creating a new reality that involves good guys being unarmed leaving criminals as the only armed ones. If that had been the policy from the start, something the founding fathers put in place with the constitution and when they got rid of british taxes and fought them off, they had thrown the last of their guns on the boats to go back with the british - THEN, then I would think things could be different. But the reality is, your fellow countrymen just aren't going to play into your fantasy of giving up their unfettered access to guns.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 8, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
If you can take them away from criminals, why not JUST take them away from criminals? Why not start there?


Do that effectively, FIRST. Rid yourselves of crime. Heck, take every weapon away from every criminal.




Then you will have eliminated your problems. More laws, rules and hog-tying of your own citizens will not give you the same results of taking weapons from criminals. Since you have already started, and other countries have done it, finish it. Then tackle another job.



BTW, you seem so sure that America is just like every other country, how many others have you lived in? What makes you so sure of this? I used to think that as well, until I spent 10 years living outside of my own country. However, I'm sure you can convince most of your fellow countrymen of this since a lot of them haven't lived abroad either. You can take the girl out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl...
Stefan Jacobsen

Trad climber
Danmark
Mar 8, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
@jghedge:

Thanks for the statistics on wikipedia. It linked to another interesting one, according to which in the US you have 88.8 civilian owned guns per 100 residents compared to 12 in Denmark. From my point of view that's stunning, as I thought you guys had like 10 guns per 100 residents and we had less than 1.

No matter I was off by a factor of 10, the sheer difference in gun numbers between our countries must account for the higher gun related death rate in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 8, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
"Same thing here. The gun death rate for Caucasian non Hispanics is about the same as Denmark."


Nope. That's a lie - and a stupid one at that.

In fact it's much higher.


http://www.vpc.org/studies/hispone.htm

Shows the US gun murder rate for white caucasians at 4 per 100,000

In Denmark it's .22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate


Proven wrong again.


Stick to wingnut fantasies, TGT - facts shoot you down every time.

Those statistics don't add up.
The Wiki webpage shows the US gun homicide rate at 3.2/100,000. That's not broken down by ethnicity, but obviously it will be much lower for what you call "white caucasians" (sort of a strange redundancy).
Still won't be able to get it down to Denmark's rates, but it's low enough so that most white people don't have any real fear of being murdered with a gun--just something that's extremely unlikely to happen.

Much higher murder rates among "disadvantaged minorities" is a problem, but one that most white people probably don't want to try to solve by unilaterally disarming themselves.
Stefan Jacobsen

Trad climber
Danmark
Mar 8, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
@Bruce Kay:

Apparently we don't need penis extensions to the same degree. On average the US penis size is 5.1 inches while ours are 6 inches.

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=3073
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 8, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
time for bottom line update on likely Federal legislation


looks like nothing to get worked up about, at all

by the time the Senate and House are done with it and the President signs it, there will be much harsher penalties for "straw buyers" buying guns for people that cannot pass background checks on their own

also, "universal background checks" will be extended to include gun shows and all private sales with the exception of between close blood relatives

large purchases of ammunition will be more closely tracked for law enforcement clues

looks like there will not be any limitations on magazines or any banning of weapons

all in all, pretty benign legislation that will look like something was done but likely will do nothing to mitigate mass slaughter

mass firearm murder is the tradeoff we will continue to pay to protect our "freedom and liberties" under the Second Amendment

but that's ok because I love my guns and the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good gun with a gun

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 8, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
If you can take them away from criminals, why not JUST take them away from criminals? Why not start there?

Nobody is taking anyone's guns away.

Google "straw purchases" the number one way criminals get guns. Then google "straw man" and see if you can figure out how that describes pretty much every argument you have presented (i.e. using guns to protect the president, etc etc)


Funny, if you step away from this thread for a while it because much more apparent just how fuking stupid you all sound.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 8, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
Well wes,, one thing for sure is a skunk cant change his stripe, as evidenced by the last sentence in your post.






mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 8, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
My last sentence is supported by empirical evidence. People are STILL talking about the government taking guns as if that might happen, still talking about Chicago as if that is representative of anywhere else in the country, and still suggesting that since the president is protected by guns everyone else should be... including our kids in schools.

All the while ignoring the FACT that stricter background checks, limits on gun purchases (currently no more than 2 a week?), and gun registration will significantly reduce the number of straw purchases and hence criminals with guns.

I'm sorry you can't see how fuking stupid that all sounds.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 8, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
mine and about 599,999,980 OTHER guns have nothing to do with any of it- i hope you know how ridiculous THAT sounds.
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