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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
because different counties, states, and municipalities have different laws about exactly who is to respond to armed security threats

each level has very different responsibilities

for example, the national guard is largely composed of "weekend" warriors, guys with regular jobs who are no match for outfits such as local SWAT teams and national level agents, such as those employed by many federal agencies, not the least of which is DHS

that's why

it's not so simple
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Yes. Swat has them. Why not DHS? If they have to respond to a terrorist threat here, they may need to be capably armed. They would also be fighting in a similar style to what our soldiers are currently doing overseas now, in urban city tactics, so whatever future argument about how they,re training to fight us door to door is hereby decried in a preemptive argument.
What will they do with 1.6bil rounds? Same as you and me. Shoot targets. Train for the day they hope never to need them. I bet target shooters waste more ammo than the military.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
Why does DHS need assualt vehicles HERE? D

Because gun nuts keep talking about "watering the tree of liberty" and using their guns to fight the government. DUH.


Seriously? No comparison?

Seriously, NONE.

I thought anything with potential to kill would be game for this thread.

Only if you want to continue setting up straw men to be knocked down, over and over and over.


So name something else that we actually CAN compare.

Let me see... what else can ANY non felon purchase, regardless of sanity, that is capable of killing dozens of innocent people in minutes?

Apples to oranges is still fruht ya know.

But oranges have WAY more nutrients.


Hillrat,, they ordered enough ammo to last in a hot war 20 years worth.

Ron, we have been over this several times. They ordered 1.6 billion rounds to be used over the next 5 years. They have over 100,000 armed personnel. That's 3200 rounds a year each for training and everything. Are you claiming that is unreasonable? I know people who go through 100+ a month for fun.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
If DHS is overstepping bounds, then that should soon be born out in US courts.

How do you know the blackhawk was DHS, or did you just assume that?

I see far more logic in the shortfalls of supply and demand when the public makes a panic run on ammo at the local Walmart. DHS didnt run down here to buy six boxes of every pistol caliber on the shelf.

Look, conspiracies can happen, but seldom on such a grand scale. You just cant have THAT many people keeping a secret agenda that would be so obviously wrong. The majority of DHS employees are people like us that just needed jobs.

Where sh#t goes down is during times of crisis when people get scared and controlling, like Katrina, where there actually were a few reported gun confiscations.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Let me see... what else can ANY non felon purchase,
pretty open-ended so far...
regardless of sanity,
that's a tougher one to firm up reliably...
that is capable of killing dozens of innocent people
and, in the case of hundreds of millions of guns, very, very rarely does...
in minutes?
And there it is: the proximate and dramatic thing again.

The last two words are what the whole "urgency" bit hinges upon. There are many other things that satisfy all but the last two words, and these do much more damage in all respects. But they are legal and even more unlikely to be legislated against than guns, because they simply lack the proximity and drama that make for, well, dramatic and sexy news fodder.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Things a felon can purchase, potentially deadly-
cars, trucks, gasoline, matches, propane, poison,
free online books on explosives, geurilla warfare tactics,
other chemicals,
and more.

Lucky us, criminals and terrorists tend toward the dumber side, usually.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Generally conspiracies don't involve public requests for bids on contracts.

hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
So- non milhtary? Not the national guard? DHS is the only unmarked birds? Proof please.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
Fair enough. Here,s a couple possibilities for ya-

they may not be the only unmarked birds.
They may have a training ground nearby.

Remember, i live just down the street from ya, and i,ve yet to see them. Not saying you havent, but im a hard sell for conspiracies.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
There are many other things that satisfy all but the last two words, and these do much more damage in all respects. But they are legal and even more unlikely to be legislated against than guns

Things a felon can purchase, potentially deadly-
cars, trucks, gasoline, matches, propane, poison,
free online books on explosives, geurilla warfare tactics,
other chemicals,
and more.

Automobiles (so glad we get to go over this one AGAIN): "legislated against", registered, insured, and ESSENTIAL for the daily lives of most Americans... at least until we get a major overhaul of our infrastructure. All automobiles are required by law to have safety belts... are all guns required by law to have a safety? In all but 1 state you are required by law to wear the safety belt. You can avoid cars if you stay off the roads. You can't avoid guns simply by staying off the shooting ranges.

Explosives: "legislated against", http://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to/explosive-storage-requirements.html NOTE: No similar regulations for the safe storage of guns.

Gasoline: I'm actually surprised more people don't blow up gas stations, but see "explosives"

Books: don't kill. Most of the sh#t in the Anarchists Cookbook are feeble at best.

Tactics: Where can you purchase tactics?


and yes madbolter...

Cigarettes: regulated, and very easy to walk away from.


mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
I think Ron is mostly upset that "the f*ckewrs dont wave"... but I'm only basing that on the fact that he has mentioned it several times.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
Well Ron

it sounds like your neighborhood is getting a lot of law enforcement attention

pretty much exactly what you want, right?

and judging from your comments about how shitty it is where you live, about time too!
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
Just sayin, if you got a little chemistry and a recipe book.,

Try any surplus store for tactics. Should we have the how-to manuals so easily accessible? Its not the anarchist cookbook crap, its the same manuals used to train our own armed forces. There are other books around with accurate explosives recipes. Its free stuff. Cars- NOT essential for convicts. Agreed, theyre regulated. Not enough. Too many "accidental" deaths, by far.

Like i said (yeah, lets go over it again!), there are such things as reasonable regulations. you and me just disagree on what those are and how effective theyed be.

And i like berries better than apples or oranges, regardless of the nutrients. Just sayin.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Should we have the how-to manuals so easily accessible?

I don't think so. But it doesn't seem worth getting all up in arms about right now.

you and me just disagree on what those are and how effective theyed be.

I'm not sure we do, but I'm pretty sure you think we do.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
it sounds like your neighborhood is getting a lot of law enforcement attention

pretty much exactly what you want, right?

That's sorta what I remembered of his take too...

You're kinda being picky there, Ron. You want airborne waves now? High speed back pats? How about they throw you down a corn dog cooked on their chopper motor while they're at it? Hahaha... Less government, more Walmart greeters!
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Ron, i see the problem. Theyre too busy scoping the ranch there to notice you waving. Id think youd be glad they step up enforcement.

As to the dino rock thing, who knows? Maybe they never raw a climber before.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Cigarettes: regulated, and very easy to walk away from.

Well, sort of. Not in the ways necessary to correlate with proposed gun restrictions.

And, again, not so easy to walk away from. At least here in Colorado, my experience is that smokers don't stay very far away from doors, and the crap carries.

I don't want to inhale ANY of it, and why should I have to be the one that walks away? I'm not the one polluting myself and the atmosphere all around me with deadly toxic fumes. I want LAWS, damn it... with TEETH!

And kids typically cannot "walk away." It's in their homes, their cars.... If you're a kid growing up around smokers, it's absolutely pervasive.

So, I think we're a FAR cry from regulating cigarettes like we are proposing to regulate guns, both qualitatively and quantitatively.

Now, I'm not saying anybody here is opposed to such regulation. Several have stated they would also be in favor of that. But there's no frothy thread on that subject, nor will there be. And there's no congressional hand-wringing on that subject, nor will there be. And to me the question remains whether or not such legislation could have the desired effect.

And what about FAT? What parents do to and allow to happen to their fat little kids is surely criminal. The statistics on this front make all others pale by comparison. Another slow but sure premature killer, not to mention the losses in lifestyle and productivity. Again, neither proximate nor sexy, but statistically VERY significant. I want anti-fat legislation to protect these poor kids.

Save the whales!
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Well, maybe we agree. I duno. We,re not at either extreme anway. I dont follow the follow the thread close enough, just pop in from time to time like today (turning rotors at work) and stir the pot a bit. Not getn enough climbing in these days. Two jobs plus a baby.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
We made ieds that blew matresses into the air quite a distance!

Just the kind of non felon who should have unlimited access to all the guns they want.


I don't want to inhale ANY of it, and why should I have to be the one that walks away? I'm not the one polluting myself and the atmosphere all around me with deadly toxic fumes. I want LAWS, damn it... with TEETH!

Take some personal responsibility and remove yourself from the threat, or at least tell the fukers they are breaking the law. YOU can do that with cigarettes. Not so easy when someone is pointing a gun at you.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 4, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
The other day we had EIGHT C-130s come over following the river corridor east at about 300 feet agl. Ive taken MANY pics of em actually, and the f*ckewrs dont wave here either!..

That was just Red Flag or Weapons School dodging the bad guys.

They are a bit too busy to wave.

Four sets of eyeballs out front and two on the sides. They don't have any fancy terrain following electronics.
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