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Messages 3061 - 3080 of total 5838 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:56am PT
I don't really care about this idea of virtually eliminating gun deaths, it's a false cause. Cars, drinking, smoking, drug use, etc. are all much bigger issues if your baseline for judgment is how many die.

I would rather preserve a free society, which millions have died to defend, than let us fall into a state of tyranny to theoretically save a relative few, when in fact you cannot prove your proposed laws would accomplish anything.

Don't bother me with your endless ideology that the Brits have it right either. They have a serious mess on their hands, but it'll take another 10 years or so for it to come to fruition.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 25, 2013 - 07:48am PT
I would rather preserve a free society, which millions have died to defend, than let us fall into a state of tyranny to theoretically save a relative few, when in fact you cannot prove your proposed laws would accomplish anything.

You have that slightly backwards. A free society is one where thousands aren't murdered every year to justify the rights claimed by a relative few to overthrow a non-existent tyranny.

TE

Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
The coastal redwoods
Feb 25, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Don't bother me with your endless ideology that the Brits have it right either. They have a serious mess on their hands, but it'll take another 10 years or so for it to come to fruition.

and what is that oh wise KSolem?
Britain certainly doesnt have everything right, far from it but who does?
seriously though, please provide me with an insight into Britain all the way from Monrovia, i hope it reads as good as Ron telling us how the americans stopped the british taking over their country and how the english and trying to steal scotland and ireland, that sht is priceless
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 25, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
You have that slightly backwards. A free society is one where thousands aren't murdered every year to justify the rights claimed by a relative few to overthrow a non-existent tyranny.

a pretty good observation!


but lets take out the clearly outdated part about American citizens needing weapons to defend against the US Armed Forces as a consideration, our own government "tyranny"

then it comes down to just exactly what weaponry are reasonable to include as necessary to insure the "freedom and liberty" that the 2nd Amendment is claimed to have such a non stated meaning about?

over 200 years ago the best we had were black powder rifles that took about a minute to reload and fire, with very limited range and accuracy

the Founders never mentioned a good guy needing the same weapons as a bad gun could get his hands on to defend against, in fact they did not mention self defense but surely it was implied
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
200 years ago, your free speech extended only as far as your voice could project. There were no telephones, televisions, etc. back then either.

Are you sure your First Amendment rights apply to modern electronic communication? If so, then why wouldn't your Second Amendment rights apply to modern arms?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
If so, then why wouldn't your Second Amendment rights apply to modern arms?

of course, Chaz

and nowhere in my post did I dispute that, did I?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
I know you didn't, Norton.

The question was put out there for the benefit of those who believe otherwise.

Some of the same folks who will tell you that the Constitution is a "living and breathing" organism, that is constantly evolving, will also tell you the Second Amendment cannot be allowed expand to keep up with the times.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
Is this STILL going on? (I just got back from a 4 day camping trip)

It looks like the broken record of jghedge is still on. How come he hasn't just moved across the pond?

I remember back when I bought my 33rd gun and realized that I would likely never be like the English again, but then most of them wouldn't need nearly as many firearms to still outnumber their teeth,..
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
200 years ago, your free speech extended only as far as your voice could project. There were no telephones, televisions, etc. back then either.

Are you sure your First Amendment rights apply to modern electronic communication? If so, then why wouldn't your Second Amendment rights apply to modern arms?

But there ARE restrictions on modern communications that do not apply to verbal communications or written words and this is completely in line with the obvious fact that ALL rights are subject to limitation based on their potential for abuse by the few to the detriment of many (or abuse by many to the detriment of a few).

Modern mass communication has potential to harm many more people than word of mouth or a hand-operated printing press, and is therefore much more heavily regulated. Modern weapons should be no different, not unrestricted, not banned outright, but regulated based on their benefit and potential for harm.

TE
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 25, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
Chaz believes in freedom, and he won't rest until his neighbor can own an atom bomb.

Megatons for the people!
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
The coastal redwoods
Feb 25, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
I remember back when I bought my 33rd gun and realized that I would likely never be like the English again, but then most of them wouldn't need nearly as many firearms to still outnumber their teeth,..

ha, i remember austin powers doing that joke, it still just doesnt lose its contemporary, edgy humour. brilliant, you sir are a genius
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 25, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
Never saw it, but great minds,..
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
These small firearms are often PURCHASED by women, a particularly fast-growing segment of firearm owners.

There. Fixed that.

So tell me, how many persons who practice concealed carry legally commit crimes with their guns? How many criminals who used a concealed weapon in a crime have a carry permit or a registered gun?

Ruger even makes LCRs and LCPs models with pink grips.

OMG! The horror!!

FWIW there was a madman shooting up the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon last December. After killing two, he turned his rifle on himself after being drawn on by an off duty security guard with a concealed carry permit. The guard did not need to fire his weapon, and chose not to for the safety of others should he miss.
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
FWIW there was a madman shooting up the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon last December. After killing two, he turned his rifle on himself after being drawn on by an off duty security guard with a concealed carry permit.

Why do these nutjobs always do themselves in last? Why don't they shoot themselves first and save us all the misery?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 26, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Why do these nutjobs always do themselves in last? Why don't they shoot themselves first and save us all the misery?

Sometimes I wonder if they are suicidal, but don't have the balls to just up and do it. It's as if they have to paint themselves in a corner first, to create a situation where there is no choice.

In the case of the Oregon shooter, there is little doubt that he would have kept killing many more had not the armed off duty guard confronted him.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Well spoken.

"I don't really care about this idea of virtually eliminating gun deaths, it's a false cause. Cars, drinking, smoking, drug use, etc. are all much bigger issues if your baseline for judgment is how many die. I would rather preserve a free society, which millions have died to defend, than let us fall into a state of tyranny to theoretically save a relative few, when in fact you cannot prove your proposed laws would accomplish anything. Don't bother me with your endless ideology that the Brits have it right either. They have a serious mess on their hands, but it'll take another 10 years or so for it to come to fruition."

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Well spoken indeed.

Hedge, there's plenty of room over in jolly 'ol England. I would miss you though.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:04am PT
And how many people are intentionally killed with cars?

Are DUI, speeding, reckless driving, texting while driving, using a cell phone while driving - in other words the causes of most accidents - not intentional acts?

The driver made a choice to put their own and other people's well being at risk. That is intentional. Of course I understand that such a driver is not choosing the specific person they will harm or kill, so instead of murder one they should get manslaughter, but the majority of car accidents are caused by the decisions and actions of drivers.

I suppose you could actually argue that cars don't kill, drivers do...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:15am PT
I'm not even remotely desperate. Do you text and drive? I certainly would not do that under any circumstance. It is an irresponsible deliberate choice and when it results in a big fatal car crash it is equivalent to shooting people. They are dead. They were innocent and killed.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:25am PT
you are putting your own and other's well-being at risk every time you drive. That's the same as homicide?

The answer to your question depends on choices made by a driver.

DUI resulting in fatality is frequently prosecuted as vehicular homicide.

DUI is the cause of a large portion of our worst highway crashes.

I think that if we could prevent most misbehavior by drivers the number of serious accidents would be dramatically reduced.
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