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Messages 3021 - 3040 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 11, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
"Comparing accident statistics to homicide statistics is a reeeeally well thought-out argument, Rong"


Yeah. CARS are out of control!

Almost every single person who is killed by an automobile is killed completely by accident. No matter how hard they tried, they coild not prevent those cars from killing somebody.

Guns, however, are much safer.

Almost every single person killed by gunfire is killed on purpose.

You're right. Guns and cars should not be compared because cars are much more dangerous than guns. Cars are in a dangerous league of their own.
jghedge

climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
"Guns and cars should not be compared because cars are much more dangerous than guns."


How many people are intentionally killed by cars each year?

And by guns?



McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Feb 11, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
As a kid I would actually have dreams of somebody breaking into the house and I would go searching through my parents things to find a gun. I would find a gun but the damn bullets weren't there! In reality, the guns always had bullets in them - they're not much good otherwise! I went backpacking alone as a 13 year old and my mother let me carry a 38 Special. I'm pretty sure the idea was that it was better for me to be out of the city doing what I wanted and away from bad influences. Carrying a gun was not much different than carrying a knife. What I find though is not that many people seem to have 'enough' respect for the damn things - they wave them around like they're sparklers on the 4th of July. It would be terrible to actually get shot. Somebody could easily have stolen my parents guns. I just really don't like being around people that are handling guns. There are so many other ways to get off. It seems like our culture is f*#king bankrupt.
jghedge

climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
" It seems like our culture is f*#king bankrupt."

Too many men don't feel like they're man enough without guns.

And a lot of them are right - except of course, they're not man enough with them either.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Feb 11, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Well, there's something wrong with the 'picture'. As animals we're just all too f*#king weird. It would be nice if we could evolve beyond all this sh#t and try to make more sense of the Universe more quickly than we are. Maybe we should relish that we are still in the dark ages, but maybe we should relish more what the future can be. I fear that the beauty of the natural world will die on the sacrificial heap of humanity's survival. It's a big f*#king trade-off....I hope we are worthy.
jghedge

climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
"Well, there's something wrong with the 'picture'. As animals we're just all too f*#king weird. It would be nice if we could evolve beyond all this sh#t and try to make more sense of the Universe more quickly than we are."

We have evolved beyond it - just not in this country. Yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 11, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
Cars are in a dangerous league of their own.

When is the last time anyone stole their mom's car and killed dozens of people in minutes? Or drove it into a movie theater with similar results?

Here's a fun wikifact: The Congressional Research Service in 2009 estimated there were 310 million firearms in the United States. Surely that has gone up.

"The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000" http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
That's the lowest number I could find.

Here's another fun wikifact: "Overall, there were an estimated 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles in the United States according to a 2007 DOT study."


Think of all the people who actually USE their cars every single day. Many of them HAVE to use them. There is no other way for them to keep a job and make a living. The west was settled in a way that REQUIRES cars. Our infrastructure relies on having a car. I think it sucks, but many people NEED cars.

Think of all the people who own MANY guns. I'd say most of the people I know who own a gun own at least 3. Very few of those people have had a NEED for a gun in the last month or more. Most of those people don't make a living with their guns.

So 30,000+ gun deaths a year and 32,000+ auto deaths a year...

One is out of necessity and car dependent infrastructure

The other out of resistance to changing the outdated laws because a fraction of the population doesn't want to be inconvenienced.

Yep, different leagues fosho.

(If you are going to argue the numbers, please either provide a source or accept my preemptive "god you are a fuking moron" with my full compliments.)
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
Make shooting ranges so that each lane alternates ends of the range. You drive a car at 70 mph with maybe 5 feet of distance between you and the person going the opposite direction. If the person in the next lane was shooting at a target 5 feet to your left we might be able to more accurately compare gun and automobile deaths.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 11, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
Why does the NRA oppose universal background checks?

The NRA can’t have it both ways, either private gun sales are an insignificant proportion of overall transactions, in which case the “bureaucratic nightmare“ is irrelevant, or they are sizeable enough to deserve inclusion in background checks.

At first glance, it could be thought that background checks for private sales could dampen the market for second-hand guns, and increase sales for the NRA’s sponsors, the gun manufacturers. Unfortunately the NRA may have an even more cynical reason.

Private sales represent the easiest, lowest risk way for both organized and individual criminals to get guns. This assertion is not based on any research, but simply on the fact that I, a citizen with no criminal contacts can legally acquire a gun by private sale in just a few minutes looking online, therefore so can those with a need and incentive to bypass the background check. If there is an even easier or less detectable way for criminals to get guns, someone here please let us all know.

The gun manufacturers know that a proportion of their sales are diverted from the legal trade, but have no reason to care, not only do they make the same profit from a straw purchased gun as a legally purchased gun, the continued prevalence of illegal guns will drive the legal market up too.

TE
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 11, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
One of the bills before the state legislature would make CCWs unnecessary to carry concealed here.
yosemite 5.9

climber
santa cruz
Feb 11, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Seems to me, if the real concern is mass killings, then each state should enact laws that require specified standards of security for events where people are confined in an area, such as schools, sporting events, concerts,theatres,etc. It's too late to take away guns. And the loonies will find a gun if they really want to. What's in the middle to stop them is adequate security.
Large movie theatres have hundreds of customers at a time. They can afford security. It would be a big deterrent.

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Feb 11, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
Here's what will happen more when more people conceal carry.

http://americablog.com/2013/02/wife-drops-gun-at-mcdonalds-accidentally-shoots-husband.html



"I said no mustard"
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 11, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
Bet she was blond.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 11, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
When is the last time anyone stole their mom's car and killed dozens of people in minutes? Or drove it into a movie theater with similar results?

What the hell are you talking about? It happens all the time - this is America we're talking about here!



Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 11, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Why does the NRA oppose universal background checks?

The NRA is a lobby for an industry.

They are not a rights organization. They do not serve the public or even their membership. They serve their corporate sponsors. They don't care about the 2nd Amendment or any other right.

The NRA wants criminals to have guns.

Every gun that ends up in the hands of a criminal is another sale.

Every gun that ends up in the hands of a criminal will lead to more sales.

They profit from the cycle of escalation.

More guns more sales, more sales more guns.


crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Feb 11, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
Amen, Kos. Discussion closed.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 11, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
Bruce, that ain't his mom's dozer!

Quote from that vid... "NONE OF THE TOWNS PEOPLE WERE HURT."

and "all the time?" Come on!

Fun to watch... but only because NOBODY WAS HURT... except for the guy who took his own life... and what did he take his own life with... that's right...
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 11, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
Well, you can't say he didn't try!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 11, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Feb 11, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
The NRA says a proposal to ban gun sales to anyone in the middle of a killing spree is a gross violation of the Second Amendment:

http://www.theonion.com/video/nra-fights-legislation-that-would-ban-gun-sales-to,30927/
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