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philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 28, 2013 - 09:56am PT
America's just more violent. Any way you want to measure it. And we should be. It's in our genetics.

Did you really say that Chaz? Did you say it with a straight face?
"And we should be".
WTF! Did the genome project Map an American violence gene? Really?
Well then that explains it. Nothing can be done about because as Chaz says"It's in our genetics".
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 28, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Violence is genetic sheesh! It shows the mentality of those on the right! If anything violence is in our culture, and that's exactly what this thread should be about trying to change that.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Yeah, it is confrontational when a comedian does it... but when the POTUS does it I suppose it is classy?



I suppose yelling out "YOU LIE" during a congressional address is just honest and open debate, too?



If anything violence is in our culture, and that's exactly what this thread should be about trying to change that.

Or at least reducing the availability of lethal tools used to express that violence.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Oh for fuk sakes Ron... of course other people are violent all over the world... that is what makes the "violence is in our genes" comment so fuking stoopid...


BUT

THEY

DON'T

HAVE

AS

EASY

ACCESS

TO

FIREARMS!!!!

This is fun:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-03-27/news/fl-boynton-road-rage-20130327_1_road-rage-incident-west-boynton-man-road-rage-incidents
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 28, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
If you make legal access to firearms too hard, you'll end up making it much easier to get a gun.

Prohibition ALWAYS creates black markets.

The Black Market doesn't do background checks, or check I.D.s, or enforce *waiting periods*. No. The Black Market delivers right to your house, with just a phone call. Only question asked is "you have cash"?

Think through your plan again, Weschrist, and this time take The Law Of Unintended Consequences into consideration.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
If you make legal access to firearms too hard, you'll end up making it much easier to get a gun.


Yeah, that makes sense... since most guns on the streets get there through straw sales... you know, like any criminal who doesn't have a felony can legally buy one gun a month and sell it to their neighbor... no tracking, no followups, no reporting of high volume purchasers... the gun manufacturers like it that way, which is why they pay the NRA so much to lobby and brainwash morains.

No need to increase regulations/oversight...
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129253&page=1#.UVR4NldvBao
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
And I can make a phone call or two and get as many guns as I can afford today. No paperwork. The Black Market is already up-and-running. Trust me. I've participated in underground trade on many levels.

You really want to give the Black Market a big boost? Give it a monopoly.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
And I can make a phone call or two and get as many guns as I can afford today.

Where did those guns originally come from? How did your seller get them?

Don't be a dumb ass. It has been shown the vast majority of guns on the streets (black market) come from straw sales or corrupt gun shops. Clearly stricter regulations and prosecution would slow down the flow of guns into the streets. If you can't see that you are a fool.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Anderson is also the guy who says murder rates are going up and down at the same time, within 10 minutes.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Of every 10 firearm homicide victims killed at the shooter’s residence:6 were intimate partners or family members, 3 were friends or acquaintances, 1 was a stranger.

One of 10 firearm homicides in the shooter’s home was considered justifiable (shooter was not an assailant).

http://www.apps.cdph.ca.gov/epicdata/firearms/gunownstore.htm
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Weschrist,

Is it possible to use a gun defensively without shooting someone, or even firing it?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Monolith,

Is it possible to use a gun defensively without shooting someone, or even firing it?
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
"Self Defense" is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society" -Sir William Blackstone-
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Not the answer you demand, sorry. Now get back to debating the facts.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Chaz, of course it is possible and I fully support responsible citizens using guns for personal protection.

Now your turn...

When YOU buy a gun off the black market, how do you think that gun originally made it onto the black market? Other than a minor inconvenience, why would any sane person oppose stricter regulation on gun shop record keeping and/or accountability for straw purchasers?


Follow up... if there had not been video of that road rage incident in NC, do you think that would have qualified as "defensive use of a weapon?" I'm guessing a redneck and his well dressed wife vs. a few teenage punks would result in a "yes" from most gun nuts. Sometimes I wish people would record that sh#t and then wait until the last possible minute to reveal the truth, just to show how stupid/blind/ignorant some of the pro-gun nut people are.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
"Well I can assure you young man, that neither my companion or I carry firearms on our person. We rely upon the goodwill of our fellow man, and the forbearance of reptiles" -English Bob-
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Ron, the black market has 2 sources that supply the vast majority of guns used in crimes. You didn't list either one... you listed countries.

1) Corrupt gun stores that should be required to keep better records and be held more accountable when they don't. Minimum of ~28%

2) Straw purchases, which should be watched more closely and prosecuted more severely. For example, anyone buying more than 1-2 gun per year (rather than per month) should arouse suspicion. Minimum of ~40%


The majority of the remaining 30% come from theft (irresponsible gun owners improperly storing their guns).
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
73K gun injuries in the US in 2010.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/23/facebook-posts/do-people-get-shot-every-year-facebook-post-says/

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
In fact, it is the FEDERAL level that falls short of record keeping, as a brady check doesnt even require the model of the gun, just a long gun or hand gun. But those locally kept records are available 24/7 to law enforcment..

well, the Brady bill expired many years ago


but Ron brings up a good point as he points out how the Feds fall short on record keeping

this seems an issue that can be improved upon


Ron, what specifically would you like the Feds to expand their record keeping on?
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Relax Son, You are very good at flapping your "COCK HOLSTER" Not every body is out to get you..
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