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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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The point is made for open minds.
That smoking a cigarette near someone is worse than holding them at gun point. Got it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Hillrat is right about hoarders, but while the price is up I use some of the 100K+ that I have in my basement for barter.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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What makes you think it will still be $.36 then?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Stupid ordinance, obviously. But it does raise an interesting federalism (or even state law) question- to what extent may citizens maintain a "well regulated militia"?
Could a regional group form a militia and assert a right to arm itself similarly to a modern military force? Certainly that is how it was when the constitution was written (also common were restrictions on personal use much more onerous than what we have today).
The NRA nuts and its fans get so wrapped up in doing the bidding of the gun industry-- which profits from people amassing their own personal arsenals to fight tyranny and thwart crime, but there are some big and interesting questions re the second amendment that will have to get answered at some point, and there is very little actual legal or historical scholarship.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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WTF do you know about Civil Rights?
You're a fool.
Here, let these people educate you about "Civil Rights" and the god given rights of the "2nd Amendment".
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Wow, that room is PACKED. What HUGE event was that... with more people behind the podium than in the audience? A former Dallas Cowboys football player... does he have a name?... very impressive nonetheless.
Who is this god person they keep talking about? Sounds like he loves guns and has much clout... why doesn't he speak to the issue?
Sal, can you splain why their account of the founding of the NRA differs from what the NRA itself claims?
Get your panties all wound up good and tight over banning certain weapons (like grenades, bazookas, AR15, etc wherever you want to draw the arbitrary line), you may actually have a leg to stand on there, but I wouldn't bet on it. But stricter background checks, harsher penalties for straw purchasers, limiting purchases to 1 or 2 guns a year rather than a week, etc. does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to infringe on anyone's right to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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where did this 400 million guns figure come from?
is that like the total in both North and South America, etc?
maybe throw in the South Pacific
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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some interesting facts
In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.[5] There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[6] Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States.[7]
The Congressional Research Service in 2009 estimated there were 310 million firearms in the United States, not including weapons owned by the military. 114 million of these were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns.[12] In that same year, the Census bureau stated the population of people in America at 305,529,237.[13] Data analysis of crime gun databases showed that 70% of guns recovered at crime scenes in Virginia were purchased within one year of the crime, suggesting that in some cases guns are purchased with the intent to commit a crime or murder.[8]
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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400,000,000 guns ( a very low figure) equals out to .00003 % of guns out there have been used in homicides annually..
400,000,000 * 0.00003% = 120 guns used in homicides annually.
I know the math is right, but the result sounds like bullshit to me... try again and show your work for full credit.
But yet the gubbmint wants to penalize the REST
How exactly are they "penalizing" the rest?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Yes Norton, yet those are ALL estimates. I never was called by a gun census taker, nor anyone else i know.
yes Ron, of COURSE numbers are estimates, but that is the best we can do based on all reported crimes involving firearms
the fact that numbers are estimates does not mean they are not accurate, just means they are pretty good guesses since it is impossible to know the exact numbers
but I am sure you don't have any problem with those numbers anyway and neither do I, and I did not present them to support or attack anything, just thought it was interesting
anyway, it all doesn't matter does it?
maybe we will get some tougher straw buyer penalties and broader background checks, that's about it, hardly anything for anyone to object to anyway
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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It is only 2 orders of magnitude.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Yeah, MUST be other agendas...
38% of households have guns
58% of Americans want stricter gun control legislation
100% of those who think Obama is coming for their guns are morans
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Misspelling it that many times makes you wonder who the moron really is.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sorry to hear about your brothers Ron. A couple of my cousins served in Desert Storm. A handful of my friends were in Iraq this last go round. With the exception of 1, they are all a hollow shell of their former selves. War takes a brutal toll on the soul.
But if they are a potential threat to public safety (like Lanza, like Holmes, like Routh, like Elder, like Hasan, etc), they shouldn't have guns. Just like blind people shouldn't have cars, people with Tourette's shouldn't have microphones, and people who are sexually attracted to children should not be teachers or priests... even if they have never been involved in (or busted for) any illegal activity.
Above that, parents need to sack up and become exactly what a parent should be.....and train a child to love their neighbor as themselves.
... while keeping a gun on the nightstand, of course.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Ron, I just want to get this straight... are you advocating that every adult who has not yet been convicted of a felony should be allowed essentially unlimited access to guns (2 a week), regardless of their mental health status and/or perceived potential risk to society?
But you would still like to restrict the availability of weapons based on suspected gang affiliations, right?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Then who decides?
It seems you don't trust the Dr's. Especially the ones at the VA who "radically abuse" the diagnosis of PTSD. Do you trust any Dr's... you do know they are "scientists" right?... with all their bullshit "theories" and "statistics" and "studies."
I sure as sh#t don't feel qualified. If someone told me I was too mentally unstable to own a gun or do anything that might threaten the safety of others, who am I to argue?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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The gun owners I know keep their guns in a safe manner, and teach their children right off the bat that guns are NOT to be handled by them, and that should they ever do so, their ass will be kicked up, down and sideways!
good point
but what about the other mega million gun owners you do not know personally?
and, you can't legislate parental control, and expecting people to act responsibly also does not work
got any other ideas to if not prevent at least lessen the likely hood of mass murders?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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But how people reacted to that has changed, and in large- due to the way the VA uses blanket treatments
I don't think that is fair. Modern warfare is NOTHING like it used to be. Soldiers would sit in trenches or foxholes until it was time to launch an attack or defend against the same, and then shoot it out with other soldiers.
From my understanding, the modern wars in the ME involve townspeople the soldiers had interacted with on a daily basis all the sudden opening fire on them. That has got to be FAR more stressful than "conventional" warfare. Anyone who has had to live through that and shows signs of PTSD seems like a pretty high risk to me.
Anyone can snap for any reason at any time.
But some are way more prone than others. The vast majority of murderers show signs of mental instability before they kill. Why not have a bit of screening to pick out the Rouths or Hasans before they snap? Why not focus on treatment, funded by huge fines imposed on straw purchasers/negligent gun shops? Mentally ill people who are a threat to themselves or others lose many of their rights and freedoms already, why exclude the 2nd amendment?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Wes,
it does seem that a lot people nowadays tend to denigrate PTSD, poo pah it as merely some kind of made up weakness, almost a ploy to get diagnosed with and receive a VA benefit check
because it is mental and not like being in a wheel chair with both legs blown off in Iraq
"mental" afflictions have historically been seen by the dumb fuks as not that legitimate an issue
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