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TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 2, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
THE FIRST thing one learns when being trained to hace a CCW is that you only pull a gun when absolutly required, and you use it to STOP the immediate threat and only the immediate threat. Shooting blindly into the night,, NOT a recomended procedure by any ones standards.

You're making my point for me. An intruder in your house is NOT an immediate threat to your life, the vast majority of burglars are just meth-heads looking for some cash or jewelery, the last thing they want is a confrontation. If you suspect the intruder has a gun, nothing but arrogance allows you to think you have any better than a 50/50 chance of coming out on top once you move towards them. The gun culture has become so caught up in Stand Your Ground and the Castle Doctrine that people have forgotten that just because you CAN shoot an intruder and face no consequence, doesn't mean you NEED to.

Since you guys seem to have your finger on the pulse of the self-defense experts, see if you can find one that recommends a 30 shot semi-auto rifle for home defense? Approximately how many sheets of drywall would a .223 go through? You guys are screaming about the public safety menace of firing a shotgun in the air yet insist that banning assault rifles would eliminate your ability to defend your home.

While I don't agree with jhedge, at least he's got a consistent position.

TE
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 2, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Self defense, like climbing, is entirely situational. Obviously firing off .223 round in an apartment complex made of drywall is irresponsible. But how about for a rancher in southern AZ.

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 2, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
They should be allowed permits to carry assault weapons if they are in vulnerable area to traffickers. But just because they have them shouldn't mean everyone is entitled to one.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 2, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
What will happen in the next 2 years.

New laws limiting ammo, outlawing detachable mags and AW's in some states will be passed but quickly struck down in federal court.

California's current gun laws will be adopted by many other states. (HiCap mags, BG checks @ shows, etc..

FBI database BG checks will be available to private party transfer sellers (anyone).

BG checks will be more thorough

Past misdemeanor offenses other than violent crimes may preclude one from owning a firearm.

anti-gunners will cry






Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Mar 2, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
nothing but arrogance allows you to think you have any better than a 50/50 chance of coming out on top once you move towards them.

Hahahaha! Gotta be the most ignorant statement I've read in a long time.
Where do you come up with this stuff?

So, genius, what are your odds if you aren't armed?

Next you're going to try and tell me that cops unload their guns at home, because it's so much safer for them.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Mar 2, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
Let me guess TE, your advice if someone breaks into your house, with or w/o a gun is to call someone that has a gun to come over asap?

Wouldn't it be quicker to just cut out the middle man?
abrams

Sport climber
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:08am PT
If your next door neighbors look normal they are probably spies.

Credit: abrams




Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:11am PT
But real spies wouldn't have their fingers on the triggers.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 3, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Hahahaha! Gotta be the most ignorant statement I've read in a long time.
Where do you come up with this stuff?

So, genius, what are your odds if you aren't armed?

Let me guess TE, your advice if someone breaks into your house, with or w/o a gun is to call someone that has a gun to come over asap?

Wouldn't it be quicker to just cut out the middle man?

Don't put words into my mouth. You know what I said, or can't you read? The situation described was hearing an intruder in your house, you're armed. No self-defense class or expert would advise confronting unknown numbers of presumably armed intruders when you can sit facing the door and wait. If you think that it's worth risking your life to protect some cash, feel free, but that advice is no better than Biden's.

TE
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:19am PT
No self-defense class or expert would advise confronting unknown numbers of presumably armed intruders when you can sit facing the door and wait.

So, in your theoretical scenario, what about the kids down the hall in their rooms? Just hope the bad guys don't look in there? What if you live in a small apartment vs. a very large house?


This quote of your is so uninformed , it's sad.
The gun-nut intardweb is going crazy over Biden's comments, cos it goes against so many gun-nuts greatest fantasy - actually getting the chance to shoot someone.

Actually, the reason "gun nuts" are going crazy over what Biden said is because it is incredibly bad advice for many reasons.
1.A double barreled shotgun is not a good home defense weapon and no expert would recommend one, primarily because of it's capacity of 2 shells.
2.If you don't know where the bad guy/s are, DO NOT walk out into the open.
3.Although a warning shot may or may not be appropriate depending on the situation, never empty your gun with warning shots, and that is effectively what Biden said to do.
4.There is no provision for reloading after firing both barrels into the air.

Basically Biden recommended using a poor home defense weapon, and at the first sign of trouble, whithout knowing where the bad guys are, recommends running OUTSIDE with no cover(probably right under a porch light), firing both barrels into the air announcing your location, and now your gun is completely empty and you are now half deaf and your ears are ringing cuz you didn't have hearing protection. (don't worry, your hearing will come back in a couple of days or so)

Do you not see the stupidity there?

But I'll bet Mrs. Biden wears a nightgown with extra shells in the pockets for just such an occasion and is a quick reload with a double barrel so, maybe she could pull that off.
LOL!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Keep in mind that this self defense advise comes from a man who has secret service protection for life.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:09am PT
Hahaha, your average gun nut would mow down half the family by the time the intruder (if there ever actually was one) was halfway down the street.

You might, but not your typical gun owner.
I guess you think that once you own a gun, your common sense just completely disappears?
I guess you think cops are receiving some magical training that is not available elsewhere?
Do you actually know any gun owners or "gun nuts"?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 4, 2013 - 08:56am PT
You might, but not your typical gun owner.

47% of Americans have a gun in their household.

The "typical" gun owner is a cross section of America. There's plenty of stupid and reckless in that cross section.

The "typical" gun owner is just somebody with a gun in their home. Most have only learned the basic mechanical use of the weapon (e.g. how to load, clean, etc) and few have any tactical training at all (i.e. how to actually engage a threat.)

The number of firearm accidents that occur simply because people think the gun is unloaded when there is still a round in the chamber is plenty of evidence that the the "typical" firearm owner doesn't really know what the f*#k they are doing.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/19/us/north-carolina-gun-show-shooting
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:31am PT
I guess you think cops are receiving some magical training that is not available elsewhere?

Available, yes. Utilized, no. Not for the typical gun owner.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:52am PT
How many sheets of drywall would a .223 go through??



the box o' truth says more than 12, or clean through 6 walls.





http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/


So is this still normal? DHS purchased 2700 of these vehicles. Drones. Bullets. Where is the line to cross? What does it take to get most Americans to sit up and pay attention? I think it will take even more of this. I Think it will take the visible omnipresence and irreversible use before most will realize what has become of their republic.


Anyone believe it will take less, or the line will be closer than that?

I think the distraction of gun laws - where some believe in a fairytale country that can be made perfect with laws that ignore the reality of who and how many guns are already out there - helps to blur the issue. I believe the predominance of education from the news outlets will help move that line much further down the road as well.




monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:00am PT
The ammo stockpiling meme has been debunked several times. It's scheduled delivery as needed over years.

http://metabunk.org/threads/599-Debunked-DHS-orders-450-million-40-caliber-bullets-for-use-in-America

So the first thing to notice here is that it's not an order for 450 million bullets. It's a contract to supply, with a MAXIMUM volume of 450 million rounds over FIVE YEARS

But the thing that this hoax ignores is that the vast majority of rounds fired are NOT fired at people. They are fired during training and practice

And Anderson's favorite site (run by a republican couple): http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:02am PT
Of course you would think so, being so gullible.

It's not unusual for an agency to require training and qualifying with the ammo type you actually use. Like, Duh!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:03am PT
Intruder alert!!! These guys seem to travel in groups of 10 or more around here.

Start shooting...

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:07am PT
and you are now half deaf and your ears are ringing cuz you didn't have hearing protection. (don't worry, your hearing will come back in a couple of days or so)

Up until then I had little or no disagreement with what you said, but with those lines you've lost it all. Firing a shotgun in the air outside causes hearing loss for days? Some gun.

I'm not trying to defend Biden's advice, I already said it wasn't the best. Every situation is different, and no one approach is going to be right. I still maintain that the majority of intruders would be sent running by the sound of a slamming door, never mind a gunshot, but for that tiny, tiny percentage of homicidally-intent psychopaths you've just revealed your position and used up one shot. Of course being armed vastly improves your odds, but not if being armed encourages you to investigate the sounds downstairs instead of calling 911 and waiting.

Training, would that be a great idea? Does any state require training to buy or own a gun? Here in PA you must pass a safety test to get a hunting license to carry a gun in the woods, but no test is required to get a LCF where you'll be carrying in public places with the implicit intent of using it to shoot someone.

This debate shouldn't be about the best way to stop an intruder, it should be about the many ways we can reduce the number of people killed by guns. Banning assault weapons and universal background checks won't solve the problem alone, but neither will armed guards in schools, improving mental health policy or even enforcing current laws, none of which anybody wants to pay for.

TE














QITNL

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Favorite part of the penis - sulcus or shaft?

Messages 2721 - 2740 of total 5646 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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