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Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
Are those correct statistics or not?

Are murder rates are primarily culturally driven, or not?

Crimper already pointed out how lame that analysis is.


Why isn't "white redneck gun culture" top on the list?

It appears that they may be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

I'll bet if you did a statistical analysis of government dependency versus murder rate you'd find about a one to one correlation and when you controlled for that, race was no longer a factor.

It's a mixed bag.

It's true that defense contractors support the murder of a lot of people, but mostly non-Americans.

But I don't think farm-subsidy recipients commit a lot of murders.

Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
I was born poor. You should see the 'hoods we called home.

OMG, now he's claiming "street cred!"

You gonna bust out some rhymes for us, ghetto boy!


BTW: I looked up your house on Zillow, it's worth twice the one I grew up in, (and it is bigger.)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/1258-east-73rd-st,-Los-Angeles,-CA_rb/

And I didn't get to move after my sister was born.

I had to survive, nigga!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
Sorry, Mr Kos. Where was your first house?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Being born poor doesn't mean you stay poor. Making poor choices in life will make sure you stay poor.

True. It doesn't. But being poor puts a lot more hurdles in the way than being non-poor. I too came from a very modest background. But I had a lot of advantages just by being white and female. Plus although I lived in a not-rich place, there were jobs I could get (and I did starting at age 14). Plus, my area had public transportation and even a library! Not everyone who is poor has those opportunities. And those opportunities mean something.

Making poor choices doesn't help either. Having a parent, or a teacher or a dear friend or family member that helps teach good choices is critical. Lots of very poor people have those people in their lives, but they don't know how to make good choices and they can't teach how to do it either. I was really really lucky to run into some awesome mentors along the way. Not everyone has that luck.

All else being equal, anyone here rather be born to poor parents or rich parents? All else being equal, anyone here rather be born to parents who can and do make wise choices or those who cannot?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
There are a very few things, that if done, will cut your chances of living in poverty down to alomst nothing.

BEFORE you have kids, get a job ( even a minimum wage job ) and get married. That's it. A recipe as old as life itself.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
704 E 17th Ave, Munhall, PA

And Crimpie is right, where you grow up poor makes a huge difference.

I grew up in a dying steel town. There were ways out, but nothing local.

I'm sure there would be much more opportunity being born poor in Silicon Valley.


Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
I thought for sure that Chaz would advise us to get a donkey, a goat, and a doberman. And maybe a fruit tree of some sort.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
Even moreso - don't have kids!

Easy to tell someone to do, but then again, in some impoverished areas there are no places to go to lessen that chance.

And that boils down to making good choices. If a person's parents and everyone around them has kids, the child may not realize NOT having kids is an option. Sounds silly, but it is true. I didn't realize that, I thought everyone just had kids. I thought I'd end up having kids even though I didn't want them. But no one seemed to really want their kids. It's just the way it went.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
Hey, I was impressed to hear that Obama has called and talked to each family from the school for no less than 45 minutes. And seems to really care about doing something to deal with this problem. Good luck! Hope you guys get good results!
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:06am PT
Throughout 9 years of university I never put the same ethnicity on my applications/paperwork. It was amusing!
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:12am PT
A pile of information about firearms you may be interested in. Much is opinion polling which is cool:

http://www.businessinsider.com/elisabeth-fossliens-gun-charts-2013-1?op=1
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:55am PT
referenced elsewhere in the many threads... the UNODC Homicide Statistics:
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:04am PT
here also linked previously is the Harvard Injury Control Center...
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/

interesting bit from this site:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

8. Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime

Using data from a survey of detainees in a Washington D.C. jail, we worked with a prison physician to investigate the circumstances of gunshot wounds to these criminals.
We found that one in four of these detainees had been wounded, in events that appear unrelated to their incarceration. Most were shot when they were victims of robberies, assaults and crossfires. Virtually none report being wounded by a “law-abiding citizen.”

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R. When criminals are shot: A survey of Washington DC jail detainees. Medscape General Medicine. 2000; June 28. www.medscape.com
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:05am PT
hedge, it would appear the ones that are shaded (handguns banned) have higher murder rates than their neighbors.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:17am PT
Ed - it's known as the victim/offender overlap. Victims and offenders look a lot alike. And often one who is victimized is hanging out with offenders, or up to no good themselves. This is NOT universal though and shouldn't be looked at as victim blaming.

edit: Thanks for the link. Good stuff there.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:19am PT
yes,
though what caught my eye was the lack of reports of criminals who has been shot by victims defending themselves with guns...

...apparently it doesn't happen.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:25am PT
Off-topic warning on an off-topic thread.

Meanwhile... while we're debating nonsense.

Germany calls shenanigans and yanks their gold from the NY Fed.

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/reserven-bundesbank-will-deutsches-gold-zurueckholen/v_detail_tab_print/7629600.html

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Virtually none report being wounded by a “law-abiding citizen.”


Well, here's four in one day.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/15/3183246/two-robbery-suspects-shot-dead.html

http://www.kens5.com/news/SAPD-Car-thief-killed-another-wounded-outside-Stone-Oak-home-186923501.html
frank wyman

Mountain climber
helena montana
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
Know Guns,Know Safety,Know Peace
No Guns,No Safety,No Peace

















+



Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Ed,
admitting they got shot by law abiding citizen = admitting they screwed up a crime
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