The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
dirt claud (a name I suspect reflects your intelligence level for reposting that crap), I heard about the WY murder when it happened. The reason it didn't make a lasting impression on most....


HE DIDN'T KILL 20 KIDS AND 6 ADULTS. NOR DID HE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A FUKING GUN!



As tragic as that was, 3 dead ain't the same as 27 dead.



And AGAIN, the reason murders are so low in WY is because violent crime is so low, which is due ENTIRELY to the low population density.


michaeld, I assume you fall into this category, right?
Think there needs to be more restrictions on who can own a firearm
Who can carry them (strict here in CA for the most part)
Who feel any law abiding citizen should have the right to have a firearm in home for self defense.

If so, good, we are on the same page. If Obama tries to take your guns, I've got your back. On the other hand, if he makes it a bit more of a pain in the arse to purchase guns to help ensure only law abiding, responsible citizens own them, I'm counting on you rationally explain the legitimacy of his actions to the nut jobs you know who start freaking out.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Are you going to post a similar story for the eight thousand gun homicides that we never hear about each year?

You can start a new thread!

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
'It'll start to bring gun deaths down to the levels of other countries, though.'

Like Mexico which has a lot of gun control and a lot of gun violence. ?Somehow, I can see Americans being as violent as they are before.

Recent example of a 17 year old who was planning on blowing up his school for example. Take the guns away form kids and they'll still role model other kids destructive behavior.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
"Although Wyoming has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the U.S., it also has one of the lowest murder rates."

JHedge says "Proving that gun ownership did nothing to prevent it the tragedy you cite."

I'm amazed you still find a way to turn this around. I think the point they are making is that if guns are so f*#kin bad when everyone has them than why does Wyoming have such a low murder rate. Isn't that what you guys are always beating your chests about, how this gun culture is creating all this craziness, and how if guns weren't so accessible this would not happen.

And yes your right the guns in Mexico come from the US. It's called Gun Runner.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Hey Mechrist, go f*#k yourself and feel free to look me up when your in SD you f*#kin coward piece of sh#t.

I can't even tell when your serious and when your trolling, but whatever, I don't even know who the f*#k you are, so what does it matter.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 14, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
Michael said:
I think the point they are making is that if guns are so f*#kin bad when everyone has them than why does Wyoming have such a low murder rate.

no Michael, we have already established from numerous reputable sources that "population density" is a huge factor is gun murder rates

and since Wyoming has a VERY low population density, absolutely it should have a low gun murder rate, and in fact it does

important: this correlation has very little to do with gun ownership rate as you seem to be trying to relate it too

example: The state with the HIGHEST rate of gun ownership and the least restrictive gun laws is Alaska, which also has the HIGHEST rate of gun deaths

example; the state with the MOST restrictive gun ownership laws is Massachusetts, which also has the LEAST number of gun deaths, per capita of course

makes sense when you take the time to think about it
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Jan 14, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Actually, I said that Norton. So I assume that post is directed at me.
Either way, I knew coming in here would just be like the political thread. Hell, I even told Mechrist to f*#k off and I have never had any issues with that guy. Whatever, time to step away from the keyboard and go climbing instead.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 14, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
dirt claud, don't be an idiot... and settle down.

He clearly didn't go to Casper College to kill people just because it was a gun free zone. He went there to kill his dad. The thing you people fail to understand is, if he HAD gotten a hold of a gun, a lot more people would have likely died... with or without a classroom full of armed cowboys and cowgirls.

That is a sad case of mental illness resulting in 3 dead. It is NOT a case that supports the right wing gun nut bullshit rhetoric that "gun free zones" lead to more dead people.



Interesting hedge, that seems to paint the same picture as the UK data... lower population density = lower crime rate, yet where gun ownership is high there are more gun related deaths, despite the lower crime rate.

SHOCKING!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 14, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Mexico's guns come from the US.

Hedge you really do just believe what you read in the media! I'm sure you have the capacity to think on your own.

The root or incentive of criminal activity and resulting violence has nothing to do with the tools ultimately used. If you could wave a magic wand over Detroit and magically remove all the firearms, which we can't, you'd still be able to stack the bodies every month.

A HUGE cause of criminal activity is the war on the illicit drug trade which we know does little or nothing to stem the flow of drugs. What about changing that dynamic to reduce crime? Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what? Insider trading?

Think a little bit Hedge...

Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 14, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
If killing has little to do with the tool used, then why do some cling so tightly to their guns?

Because we all know it does matter. Guns can do more damage to more people in a far shorter time than say a rock. Or a knife. Or a hammer. Or a fist.

And those who argue differently then why not get rid of your gun and protect yourself with a branch? or a golf club? Or a hammer? After all, if a madman can kill as effectively with any weapon as has been alleged, then you should be able to defend yourself as effectively with any weapon as well. Right?

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 14, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what?

Marijuana or other drugs

(State Prisons, Drug Offenders by Race) The most serious offense for 237,000 sentenced prisoners in state facilities at the end of 2010 was a conviction involving illegal drugs. Of this total: 69,500 (29.3%) were non-Hispanic white, 105,600 (44.6%) were non-Hispanic black and 47,800 (20.2%) were Hispanic.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/p11.pdf
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 14, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
The non Hispanic Caucasian murder rate in the US is 1.6/100k. Less than Belgium, 1.7/100k.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Look it up for yourself

DOJ and UN stats.

Took about 3 min to find on Google.

Maybe you need to get a "grip" on yourself.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Yes,

it is quite clear and good to point out that NON WHITE people do most of the killing

Really, the reasons have to do with their "ethnicity" and "culture"

For example, Ron Anderson has thoughtfully pointed out that many of the ILLEGALS, or brown skinned males from south of the US border, grew up in a CULTURE of lawlessness, and so when they sneak over here they do of course act lawlessly, like in GANGS.

But to TGT's point, it is NON WHITE people that are mostly doing the crimes, the murders.

Thanks for pointing that out, I had no idea of course.


Are YOU, TGT, a white person by chance?

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
"Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what? Insider trading?"

And what the hell is this supposed to imply?

Would you like to tell us why you think this is?

Good Lord Christ! They left you hanging up there too long! Breath man!

People are wondering what to do about lowering violent crime rates in this country. I'm pointing out that our own drug laws are at the very root of much of that violence.

Instead, simple fear, pumped up by the largely useless media machine has everyone focused on the means, the tools for the end result of violence. And not even the right tools used in the vast bulk of that violence, which would be handguns.

So the clamor is for more laws, more restrictions, yada yada yada. Laws that only the lawful obey on specific weapons/magazine sizes that aren't part of the criminal violence problem which just makes no sense.

It's the perfect situation for those who wish to exploit it. People fear a mass-murdering madman killing little white children in Newtown. "That just doesn't happen here". They fear that much more than the 20+ inner city black and Hispanics killed today, oh and tomorrow too and the day after that. Every day in fact. I'm sure someone will correct my math.

Look at your own numbers you love to quote. Think.

We can never stop a madman killing the softest random targets he can find. Only figuring out why they went psychotic if that's even possible. There are limitless ways to kill masses of innocents if you have no regard for yourself. Firearms are pretty low on that list if bodycount and suicide are the goals.

What we CAN have some impact on is the bulk of typical targeted criminal violence. Again addressing the root of the violence is the key. And here some enforcement of legislation 'might' make a small difference. Better licensing, better background checks, much bigger mandatory penalties for strawman purchases.

Oh wait... 8 more Blacks/Hispanics just got murdered in Detroit. What??!! No CNN article?!! No new SuperTaco thread???? THE OUTRAGE!




TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
Are those correct statistics or not?

Are murder rates are primarily culturally driven, or not?

Why isn't "white redneck gun culture" top on the list?


I'll bet if you did a statistical analysis of government dependency versus murder rate you'd find about a one to one correlation and when you controlled for that, race was no longer a factor.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
it seems unlikely that those numbers could have come from DOJ in that FBI does not keep Hispanic victimization numbers, and BJS' NCVS talks to victims (hence no homicide stats).

You can go to the CDC and use Wisqars which is based on NVSS death certificates to get both Hispanic origin and Race (among other things). Go here for that:http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html.

A quick use of their fun and easy online tool shows:

For 2010, the homicide rate (any cause) for NH Whites is: 2.52 per 100,000.

For 2010, the homicide rate from firearms for NH Whites is: 1.39 per 100,000.

For 2010, the homicide rate (any cause) for NH Blacks is: 19.47 per 100,000.

For 2010, the homicide rate from firearms for NH Blacks is: 15.34 per 100,000.

Lesson is, don't be born black. :/
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Also, often if one does control for income, racial differences in some victimization types go away. For instance in IPV.

Poor people do poorly - higher victimization rates, higher arrest rates, higher conviction rates, higher incarceration rates - all of these even when one controls for other important factor.

Problem is that blacks are over-represented among the poor.

Don't be born poor either.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
I was born poor. You should see the 'hoods we called home.

( google map THIS address: " 1258 east 73rd st, Los Angeles, CA " That was my first house. We lived there until my sister was born. You'll be hard pressed to find a worse place to live anywhere in the U.S. A short walk to Florence and Normandie. There was a riot in '65 when we lived there )

Being born poor doesn't mean you stay poor. Making poor choices in life will make sure you stay poor.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
Chaz, be thankful you were able to make those choices... be thankful those choices were there for you to make... be thankful you were white.
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews