The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
Mr Kos,

Which branch of the government is to "regulate" these militias? Why didn't The Constitution specify? The Constitution was VERY specific as to which branch was to be in charge of the Army and the Navy. Why the ambiguosity toward control of the militias?


And if the government was to be in control of the militias the same way it is charged with control of the Army and the Navy, then why exactly was it mentioned only in the Bill Of Rights - where the rights of citizens are detailed - and not the Articles, where the everything else the government controls are specified?
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Which branch of the government is to "regulate" these militias? Why didn't The Constitution specify? The Constitution was VERY specific as to which branch was to be in charge of the Army and the Navy. Why the ambiguosity toward control of the militias?

You obviously have no clue what a militia is.

This is clearly hopeless, but I'm gonna try. Here's your first clue, from 9th grade Civics:

There are three branches of government.

And there are three levels of government.

Guess where the militias fit into that puzzle?

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
To own a gun in -------, one must document a use for the gun. By far the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self-defence, but the first is rare unless the person shows identification confirming that he or she is a trained guard or member of a law-enforcement agency and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership.

There are special rules for collectors of guns. They are exempt from many parts of the regulation, but, in turn, they must meet even more narrow qualifications. Collectors may purchase, but not fire without permission, all kinds of guns in their respective areas of interest, which they have defined in advance.

Ownership is regulated in paragraph 7,[1] and responsibility for issuing a gun ownership license is given to the police authority in the applicant's district.

Rifle and shotgun ownership permission can be given to "sober and responsible" persons 18 years or older. The applicant for the permission must document a need for the weapon. Two exceptions exist to this age qualification. Persons under the age of 18, but over 16 may apply for rifle or shotgun ownership licence with the consent of parents or guardian. For handguns, the lowest ownership age is 21 with no exceptions allowed. For inherited weapons, it is up to the local police chief to make a decision based on the individual facts of the case.

An applicant must have a clean police record in order to obtain an ownership license.


This is the gun ownership rules in countries whose mass shootings end up with 77 killed and 242 injured in one incident alone.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
So, which branch is supposed to regulate the militias? And how do you know?

Or maybe it isn't a matter for the Federal Government to concern itself with.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Do you think those DGUs used AR-15s and other long guns? Or do you think they used handguns? Maybe a bit of both?

I don't think anyone is arguing against DGU.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Militias are a military organization that is not under the control of the federal government.

The National Guards were once militias, but they have been integrated into the federal chain of command.

They are regulated by their chain of command. E.g. the commander of the Pennsylvania National guard is in charge of that militia.

At one time, militias were not part of the US Army - the officers did not fall under the command of the President.

But they were still regulated because they had a command structure.

This isn't about "government regulation" and Republican talking points. You are way off...

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Which branch of the government is to "regulate" these militias? Why didn't The Constitution specify?

generally, those unstated details are left for the states to determine... which is why we are familiar with the idea of a "state militia"

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
So why are Obama and Biden trying to take charge, if it's something that's rightly left up to the states?
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
Norway had only 5 gun homicides in 2005. The mass shooting of 2011 can hardly be used to indicate gun violence in Norway.
jghedge

climber
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
"So why are Obama and Biden trying to take charge, if it's something that's rightly left up to the states?"

Why do you personalize it as "Obama and Biden?"
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Have you read a newspaper in the last couple of weeks?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
So why are Obama and Biden trying to take charge, if it's something that's rightly left up to the states?

"take charge"?

take charge of what, Chaz?

neither one of them can make laws, only congress can, but you knew that

calling together all the various groups in America from video gamers to the NRA to get their opinions and input as to what to SUGGEST to congress to "consider" for POSSIBLE future legislative ideas is NOT TAKING CHARGE


should congress do nothing, Chaz? Not consider any ideas from interested parties?

And it was CONGRESS that asked PRESIDENT Obama to take the "lead" after the recent slaughter, and to come up with "ideas" for CONGRESS to consider.

So really you should ask: Why is Congress taking charge?

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
Executive order? Biden himself said that's what we can expect.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2013/01/11/how_far_can_obama_go_on_gun_control_299595.html

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-realist/2013/jan/10/should-obama-use-executive-orders-enact-gun-contro/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/09/biden-claims-obama-may-use-executive-orders-to-crack-down-on-guns/
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
That's why I didn't put a name on it. It isn't indicative of Norway as a whole, it is indicative of what happens when criminals go wild without worrying about being shot back at.

many here say that they aren't worried about reducing violence in general, just these mass murders. So that is what I was addressing.


We already know that violence in general will have more opportunity if we remove the chance that people can defend themselves at an equal level as the aggressor. Taking guns away will be stupid if we want to see overall violence decrease. It will be like the UK then. But at least we won't have multiple people getting shot all at once, right? Uh huh.


What will happen is another ban like the last one you had where barrel shrouds, or " shoulder thing which goes up - Carolyn McCarthy" are banned again.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Yep- executive order, probably what he will do with the debt limits as well,, since reid tard hasnt brought a budget up to vote in four years
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
When the 2nd amendment was written, both the govt and the citizens had EXACTLY the same arms.

And no matter how hard you try, you will NEVER match the current government's fire power. Ergo, "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" is completely irrelevant and absurd... negating what follows.



Executive order... ABSUFUKINGLUTELY! It is about time the rest of us, who voted CLEARLY for Obama, stop being held hostage by the right-wing nut jobs who have UTTERLY DESTROYED what it means to be a conservative in this country.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
HE IS USING AN EXECUTIVE ORDER!!!@#!

I DON'T KNOW BASIC AMERICAN HISTORY OR CIVICS BUT FOX NEWS TOLD ME THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL WHEN OBAMA DOES IT!!!!!!!!11
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
I dont know about you mecrist, but I know many members of your military. Actually, I have signed off on the dental records that hundreds of them needed to get shipped out to Iraq. None of them I know well would side with you and use the equipment against their own liberties.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
You don't need many of them to. You just need the well paid ones at the top who can push the right buttons.

But here's the thing... either way, it is a bullshit argument. It ain't going to happen. The ONLY reason Uhmerikuhns NEED guns is for home protection. Nobody needs 2 guns every 5 months for that, so change the laws. Nobody needs an assault rifle, so change the laws. Nobody needs to order boxes and boxes and boxes of ammo and 30 round mags, and body armor, so....


The only argument they can come up with is "it won't work" which is the same chickensh#t, do nothing, felcherific they accuse congress of doing in the first place.

You can't defend against the US military (and you ain't going to need to).

So why not just shut the fuk up and AT LEAST TRY SOMETHING. Quit being a bunch of fuknards.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Weschrist writes:

"And no matter how hard you try, you will NEVER match the current government's fire power."


And exactly why in the hell would I ever WANT to?

Riddle me that, Weschrist.
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews