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Messages 1401 - 1420 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 15, 2012 - 02:52am PT
That's not arrogance, it's reality.

If you have a realistic proposal let's hear it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 15, 2012 - 03:29am PT
Simple:

 Mandatory federal registration of all weapons and licensing gun owners

 Mandatory disclosure of existing weapons and ammunition

 Sharply curtail what guns, ammunition, and magazines are acceptable for private ownership

 Sharply limit the number of weapons which can be owned by an individual and household

 Mandatory buy-back program for weapons and ammunition no longer available for private ownership

 Felony conviction for the possession or sale of undisclosed or unregistered weapons

 Require stringent background checks for licensing with annual renewals and annual gun inspections to prove retained ownership.

 Greatly extend the waiting period for gun sales to insure appropriate background checks

 Mandatory reporting of all lost or stolen weapons

 Felony conviction for failure to report a lost or stolen weapon which is later used in the commission of a crime

 Register all ammunition sales

 Dealers are required to match ammunition sales to licensed guns

 limit quantity of ammunition which can be purchased per month and per year

 Tag all ammunition

 Limit the frequency of gun purchases and limit purchases to a single weapon

 Impose far more stringent requirements on gun dealers

 All private sales conducted via licensed brokerages

 All private sales and transfers to require formal license documentation from both parties

 Subject gun show sales to the same requirements as dealers

 Immediately shutdown dealers when x number of weapons they've sold are used in the commission of a crime and permanently ban them from the business in the future both as an individual and business

That's a fair start off the top of my head...
QITNL

climber
Dec 15, 2012 - 03:34am PT
How about

 Proper locks and storage so your idiot kid doesn't shoot you and the rest of your town with your own motherf*#king gun.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 15, 2012 - 03:37am PT
Good list. I'll go through it and respond tomorrow. night now sleep is job one...
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 15, 2012 - 03:58am PT
Let's man up about this - this isn't a "people" problem. This is a man problem.

It's true. Us men are beasts, pure and simple. Testosterone poisoning is our underlying problem

Peace

karl
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Dec 15, 2012 - 06:10am PT
Kris, My source was seeing Wayne Lapierre say it on television in an interview shortly after the Virginia Tech shooting. I don't know his exact position in the NRA, but I know he's one of the top dogs.

I can't make an exact quote, but the jist of it was that mentally ill Americans were still Americans, and he would fight for their constitutional rights just the same as he would for every other American.

He went on to say it was one of those slippery slope things, who was to decide who was mentally ill, etc... He used an imagined example of someone who's spouse made a false claim of domestic violence against them, court ordered psychiatric evaluation, end result of someone who was innocent of any wrongdoing deprived of their (and this did stick in my mind),"God given" constitutional right to bear arms.

Yeah, that stuck with me as I was previously unaware that "God" had written any of our constitutional amendments.

So if you wonder why I think that many of the NRA types are nutjobs who shouldn't be trusted to drive a car much less bear arms, this is a pretty good explanation. I guess if you're a mentally imbalanced gun nut it follows that you'd defend the right of other mentally imbalanced types to keep their guns. The term gun nut seems to be literally true in a lot of people.

You also asked me where the road rage turned shootings I saw, both were here in Albuquerque. I didn't actually see the double murder occur. I saw the traffic event that preceded it. The shooter killed two women tourists who cut him off. I saw them cut him off as I was driving Westbound on I-40. I went on my way not realizing the horrific event that was occurring. The shooter abandoned his vehicle under a freeway overpass and walked a short distance to a motel and checked in. The police followed his footprints in the snow to the motel and busted him there.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 15, 2012 - 11:05am PT
Mental health issues are more of a factor in these mass shootings than guns, but as I've said there will always be crazy psychos who will go on rampages. We should be addressing mental health issues, but to ignore that there is a problem with easy access to guns in this country is to ignore a part of the solution that perhaps could have prevented the loss of so many children's lives yesterday. Sure a crazy idiot could go on a rampage with a knife but if I was a teacher and a guy barged in with a knife I'd have a good chance of kicking his ass, if he had a gun he'd probably shoot me dead.

I'm a gun owner and I like guns, but I'm just sick of the NRA types opposing sensible regulations on guns that keep them out of the hands of the wrong people.

Many of healyje's suggestions are already in place in CA. I don't have an issue with any of the laws in CA that are more strict than other states. I don't know if they can be applied nationally though. A lot of guns used in violent crimes in CA come from states like AZ with lax laws. But there are states rights to be considered, and legally I don't know if the feds can make states like AZ do anything.

Some of healyje's suggestions I don't agree with, they don't do anything to keep guns away from the wrong people, while adding a significant burden to law abiding gun owners, but these in particular should be put in place nationally IMO:

Mandatory registering of all guns and licensing gun owners

Greatly extend the waiting period for gun sales to insure appropriate background checks (just make sure there ARE appropriate background checks and a cooling off period, 3 days minimum)

Mandatory reporting of all lost or stolen weapons

Felony conviction for failure to report a lost or stolen weapon which is later used in the commission of a crime

Register all ammunition sales

Subject gun show sales to the same requirements as dealers


And this one added in particular:

Proper locks and storage so your idiot kid doesn't shoot you and the rest of your town with your own motherf*#king gun.


And I'd add confiscation of any unregistered guns and guns left unsecured.

Gun licensing should include a test on safe handling such as locking up your guns.

As mentioned before we have all kinds of regulations around driving/owning cars but little around guns.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 15, 2012 - 11:16am PT
WTF is a gun show sale?

You mean those venders? They have to use FFL forms too.
Or do you just want a reliable road map for the next phase of the Patriot Act?




Karl,
most women murderers use poison.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 15, 2012 - 11:35am PT
When all the anti gun types post signs,

you know like the ones alarm companies provide, prominently in their front yard;



THIS RESIDENCE IS A GUN FREE ZONE




Then I'll take them seriously
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 15, 2012 - 11:37am PT
Good one TGT.

I'm stealing it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 15, 2012 - 11:57am PT
FWIW, and we don't know the particulars...

Most gun "safes" are not really "safes" at all. Most are glorified sheet metal boxes. A 20 year old with some simple power tools from Home Depot could certainly be inside any RSC-rated (typical home safe) in 15 minutes or less.

So saying things weren't "locked up" isn't necessarily true.

Now back to your regular program.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 15, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
Ron as a gun guy I would fully expect you now the problem in many states of private party sales of guns with no background checks at gun shows.

TGT are you so dumb as to see the world as black and white? Because I support reasonable gun control laws I must be anti-gun right? Care to test that assertion by breaking into my house one night?

If you can't accept reasonable measures to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people and help keep innocent children from being killed you are a selfish coward.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 15, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
One of the scary and somewhat sick effects of this latest tradgedy will be an even greater panic run on ammo and guns.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 15, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
Is it gun shows or private sales you are after, Fet?

Yeah, lets prep for phase 2 of the Patriot Act.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 15, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Kris, My source was seeing Wayne Lapierre say it on television in an interview shortly after the Virginia Tech shooting. I don't know his exact position in the NRA, but I know he's one of the top dogs.

I can't make an exact quote, but the jist of it was that mentally ill Americans were still Americans, and he would fight for their constitutional rights just the same as he would for every other American.

He went on to say it was one of those slippery slope things, who was to decide who was mentally ill, etc... He used an imagined example of someone who's spouse made a false claim of domestic violence against them, court ordered psychiatric evaluation, end result of someone who was innocent of any wrongdoing deprived of their (and this did stick in my mind),"God given" constitutional right to bear arms.

Yeah, LaPierre is one of the “top dogs” there.

On your first pass you took him entirely out of context to punctuate your point. Now you give us partial context. I did not see or hear the quote as it was said, but I do not disagree that using accusations of mental imbalance against one’s political enemies is a slippery slope. George Orwell thought so as well.

Mandatory registering of all guns and licensing gun owners

Greatly extend the waiting period for gun sales to insure appropriate background checks (just make sure there ARE appropriate background checks and a cooling off period, 3 days minimum)

Mandatory reporting of all lost or stolen weapons

Felony conviction for failure to report a lost or stolen weapon which is later used in the commission of a crime

Register all ammunition sales

Subject gun show sales to the same requirements as dealers


And this one added in particular:

Proper locks and storage so your idiot kid doesn't shoot you and the rest of your town with your own motherf*#king gun.


And I'd add confiscation of any unregistered guns and guns left unsecured.

Gun licensing should include a test on safe handling such as locking up your guns.

Most of what you list above is already law in CA, though registering all ammunition sales was struck down by the courts.

As far as reporting stolen guns, been there done that and got my gun back through the fine efforts of the Fresno PD and LAPD. It was an interesting experience showing up at the property desk at the Hollywood Precinct to pick up my Beretta which had been shipped down from Fresno after ballistics testing to ascertain it was not used in a crime.

I do expect that if semi auto guns are banned we will see a large increase in the number of guns reported as stolen…
jstan

climber
Jan 10, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Today's report is out of the ordinary. One is prompted to ask a question.

Do you suppose guns are a fetish?








http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/nra-looks-at-ways-to-stop-destruction-of


NRA Looks At Ways To Stop Destruction Of Tucson Guns

DAVID TAINTOR 1:34 PM EST, THURSDAY JANUARY 10, 2013
Tweet


The National Rifle Association is looking at ways to stop the destruction of future guns, after a Tucson, Ariz., company destroyed more than 200 firearms turned in at a city buyback this week, an NRA national board member told TPM Thursday.

"We have plans to fix the problem of the destruction of the guns in the future, but I'm not going to give any details," said Todd Rathner, who lives in Arizona and has served on the NRA's board for 13 years.

Earlier this week, Rathner threatened to sue over the city's buyback, claiming that Arizona law requires guns claimed by the police to be sold to licensed firearms dealers. Asked whether he is still considering the suit, Rathner told TPM: "We're looking at all options."

Tucson Police Department spokesman Sgt. Chris Widmer told TPM Thursday that City Attorney Michael Rankin concluded that guns turned in voluntarily do not need to be resold.

Rathner said the the issue isn't about guns themselves but the law. "I never said guns have rights," he added.
Credit: jstan
(Photo: Robert Woodward looks on as Tucson police officers strip a shotgun Woodward turned in at a gun buyback event on Jan. 8, 2013 in Tucson, Ariz. Participants were offered a $50 gift card to a grocery store in exchange for their guns. Credit: Will Seberger/ZUMA Press/Newscom)


Edit:



L.A. NOW
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA -- THIS JUST IN
« Previous Post | L.A. NOW Home | Next Post »
Taft classroom shooting: Heroic effort prevents further violence
January 10, 2013 | 3:34 pm


Authorities praised the heroic actions of school officials that prevented further bloodshed after a 16-year-old student at Taft Union High School near Bakersfield burst into a classroom Thursday. He allegedly shot a boy in the chest and attempted to fire a 12-gauge shotgun at another student.

A neighbor saw the student walking to the school with a gun and called 911 about 9 a.m. The suspect was supposed to be in the classroom he burst into, which was filled with about 28 students. The suspect waved the gun in different directions and after firing at the victim, aimed at another student and missed, Youngblood said.

A teacher and campus supervisor were able to evacuate the classroom before anyone else was injured. The teacher suffered a minor pellet wound to his head and another student may have suffered hearing damage, authorities said. The suspect had as many as 20 rounds in his pocket.

“They did a great job of protecting the kids,” said Ed Whiting, chief of the Taft Police Department. “We can’t thank them enough for what they did today.”

“This is a tragedy but not as bad as we think it might have been,” Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood said.

Jacob Jackson, a sophomore at Taft Union High School, was in the campus library when the intercom crackled Thursday morning, announcing a lockdown.

"We're supposed to have a lockdown drill next week. I thought it was a drill going early," Jacob, 15, said. "I figured out it was real whenever I heard the helicopter and sirens."

Shortly after 9 a.m., a shooting was reported at the science building, which is separate from where Jacob and his classmates sat for more than an hour, lights off, doors locked.

"I was just thinking, 'I don't want to die,' " Jacob said.

Authorities eventually moved the students and staff to an auditorium, but said they couldn't say what was going on. Rumors were flying, Jacob said, that someone had opened fire in a classroom.

A 16-year-old student was shot and wounded at the school, sheriff's officials said, and was in critical but stable condition. Authorities said the suspect, also a student, used a rifle and tried to shoot a second student but missed.

A third student was taken to an area hospital with possible hearing damage after the shotgun was fired close to her ear, authorities said. A fourth suffered minor injuries when she stumbled over a table.

Panicked parents rushed to the school. Many said they feared the worst after the Dec. 14 massacre at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that killed 20 students and six adults.

Mary Jackson, Jacob's mother, works in the school district's food service department. She was in a junior high school kitchen two blocks away when she and her co-workers were told to lock the kitchen doors.

"My first instinct is my son," Jackson said. "I started bawling and fell to the floor."

She left the building and ran to the high school, where she heard that two students had been shot.

"How do I know it wasn't my son? It was horrible — I got a text from my son that said, 'I love you,' " she said. "I broke down. After about three hours, we finally got to talk."

Jackson said she's just glad her children — her daughter attends an elementary school next to Taft Union — are safe.

"It was a long, horrible, horrible feeling in my stomach that I wish on no one," she said.








And the NRA wants weapons turned in to be resold.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 10, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Another school shooting today:

SOLUTION: put Armed Guards in schools!

YES, that will solve this pesky problem


EXCEPT: today the guard did not show up, two students shot in California




WASHINGTON -- Taft Union High School in Taft, Calif., normally has an armed guard on campus to help officials with problems that go "beyond the scope" of the administration.

But on Thursday morning, as a student showed up with a shotgun and fired two to four shots at a teacher and a classmate, the officer was nowhere to be found.

"He couldn't get there because he was snowed in," Sheriff Donny Youngblood of the Kern County Sheriff’s Department said in a press conference Thursday afternoon.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 10, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
Do you suppose guns are a fetish?

That would explain the irrational behavior of the gun owners when they are threaten to lose them...
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Jan 11, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
This guy was apparently a huge gun enthusiast and producer of a highly followed YouTube channel called FPS Russia (made in Georgia) where he produced a lot of gun videos. He was murdered with a gun at his place of business by someone who was apparently better at using guns than he was. I wonder what his thoughts were about gun control right before he caught a high velocity round with his brain?

FPSRussia

http://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia?feature=chclk

Articles

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/us/keith-ratliff-gun-enthusiast-of-fpsrussia-is-shot-to-death.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/keith-ratliff-fpsrussia-dead_n_2439284.html

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 11, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
When all the anti gun types post signs

There are anti-gun types? That's odd because I have only heard from people who are for stricter gun regulations... and those who are absolutely 100% dead set against any kind of new regulations AT ALL and threaten civil war if ANYONE even suggests any further regulations. Pro-regulation is not anti-gun.

You people really need a reality check... you are the same ones that think pro-choice means anti-life. Just because some feel that a grown woman's choice that affects the rest of her life is more important than a clump of cells incapable of living outside her body, does not mean they encourage abortions or take the choice lightly. Your ignorance is repulsive.
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