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Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Mr Kos writes:

"Those who are so sure that they can overthrow a "tyranical" government with their private arsenals always seem to have no clue about military weapons, tactics, or history."



Who here's talking about overthrowing the governbment? That's crazy.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
My military service? Zero.

What difference does it make?

A lot of difference. He made a sacrifice to join the Army and protect this country. You gun nuts rant about freedom and liberty and how guns secure that... and then disregard the heroes who ACTUALLY do the work. That's pretty fuking pathetic.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
Those who are so sure that they can overthrow a "tyranical" government with their private arsenals seem to have no clue about military weapons, tactics, or history.


Do you dislike them because they have no clue, or because of something else? Do they threaten you? Or are you mad because they bring up the possibility that your government may not always have your best interest in mind? That it may one day think that in it's current iteration, that it is more important than the Constitution that you swore to uphold and protect? Are you scared that if that does happen that you will feel alone and helpless to do what you know you should - defend the Constitution and the freedoms and liberties of your fellow countrymen?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
Wes,

Your imagination is over-running your reading comprehension.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
how so?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Then why do you need assault weapons and huge mags?

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
I have a feeling you don't know Dave Kos
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
To what end? Just for the hell of it? Then why not limit them to specific training facilities?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Private gun ownership has NOTHING to do with the military, whether one respects the military, or whether one has served.

It does have EVERYTHING to do with the 2nd Amendment, and my right to protect myself and my family from harm.

I personally feel it is part of Obama's agenda to do away with our rights in this regard.

If you want to rely on your government as your sole means of protection, that is YOUR perogative.

I reserve the right to protect me and mine the way I know how....and the way our founding fathers saw fit.

Your shotgun, as stated by Ron upthread, is just as much of a weapon as any of mine.

You may be willing to let a dictator run your life........I'm not having any.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Why would anyone be against their fellow citizens being well armed? Even compared to their military?

In business you learn that half the sale is presentation, appearance. I would rather live in a well-armed country like Switzerland before Hitler went nutz than anywhere else. Keeps your military from getting attacked as much.




If some elected official wanted to become more of a monarch or dictator... do you think that the fact that the citizens were fully armed or not would be taken into his plans? Do you not think that fully armed citizens would dissuade him most guys from planning something like that? Even doing it one little step at a time with the help of the media? History repeats itself, if you don't learn from it, well, fool me once, no twice. ummmmm...


tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
If you didn't have guns then, you are saying that the rage and evil built up in people would simply dissipate? That they wouldn't do anything? Or that it is guns that creates this rage that makes them go on rampages and kill 38 people a day in your country?

because we have guns
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Why would anyone be against their fellow citizens being well armed?

Because, as WELL illustrated on this forum... and in Aurora... etc, many of my fellow citizens are bat sh#t crazy. Some live in a fantasy world where Obama is trying to take away their guns and all Mexicans are poachers with illegal AK's. Some are mentally ill but still allowed to purchase guns. Some store them irresponsibly. What don't you understand about that?


History repeats itself, if you don't learn from it, well, fool me once, no twice. ummmmm...

OMG! You are right... wait a second... this sh#t is sounding more and more like veiled threats of an impending civil war... AGAIN.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
some are mentally ill and still allowed to purchase guns


Yeah, I guess I can see how I support Canada's gun laws that allows you to be well armed while at the same time...

1. are enforced.
2. Don't allow sales unless you are licensed, you have proven that you aren't mentally deranged.
3. Limit of 5 rounds on semi-auto.
4. don't have to take into account illegal immigrants


OMG! You are right... wait a second... this sh#t is sounding more and more like an impending civil war... AGAIN.

I was just in a country in civil war, guess it just doesn't seem like something to be ignored or to scoffed at to me. The two sides are terribly uneven, the people don't have guns except for what China is supplying. I suspect it wouldn't have started if they had been armed in the first place.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
Fail it ignore history and you will continue to ruin this country.

.



Obama Opposed Gun Ban Exception to Defend One’s Home

by Keith Koffler on January 11, 2013, 9:58 am


As a state senator in Illinois, President Obama opposed legislation providing an exception to handgun restrictions if the weapon was used in the defense of one’s home.

Obama’s vote would have maintained the status quo, which made it a violation of municipal gun ban law to use a firearm to save your own life in your own home. But the bill was passed anyway without his support.

The vote is a sign of how committed Obama may be to strict gun control measures.

The Illinois vote is hardly ancient history, having occurred in 2004 as Obama was running for election to the U.S. Senate. In opposing the measure, Obama lined up well to the left of the mainstream, as the Illinois Senate included 32 Democrats to 26 Republicans but approved the bill by an overwhelming margin and subsequently overrode a veto by then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

Obama did not participate in the veto override, which occurred in November 2004, likely after Obama had resigned his state Senate seat in order to prepare for his new role in the U.S. Senate.

The Illinois legislation was passed after a man who shot a burglar in his home was fined $750 by his town for disobeying its handgun ban. The absurdity and injustice of the situation doesn’t seem to have made much of an impression on Obama.

Just eight years earlier, in 1996, Obama answered “Yes” to a survey question asking whether he would support state legislation to “ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.” The Obama 2008 presidential campaign claimed the form had been filled out by an aide who mischaracterized Obama’s position, even though Obama’s handwriting was found on survey
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
jghedge. I'm not sure you are totally correct. You didn't take the slaves away in Canada, in fact, we were the last stop for the underground railway - they came here to be free. We resolved that issue without war - unlike you.


However, unlike the liberal agenda, we are relaxing our gun rules and there are more guns here than ever before. Fewer slaves.

Maybe Canada is just that one exception to your rule you are trying to use to prove your point to your fellow Americans. But if it is, it is a pretty good chance that given our societal rules, you would still have more murders per capita than us - if you fixate on the tool used for the crime, and not the motivation, you will only have different crimes to deal with later. Unless you truly believe that people's anger is a result of the gun they are holding (which they had to kill their mother or break a law to get)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Cragman... regarding your "Obama Opposed Gun Ban Exception to Defend One’s Home"


The NRA bases this overheated claim on a vote Obama cast on March 24, 2004, in the Illinois state Senate. He was one of 20 who opposed SB 2165. That bill, which passed 38 – 20 and became law, did not make it a crime to use firearms for self-defense, however. Rather, it created a loophole for persons caught violating local gun registration laws.

...it shall be an "affirmative defense" if the person accused of violating the ban can show that the weapon was used "in an act of self-defense or defense of another … when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business."


http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/nra-targets-obama/

Here's the bill (SB2165) in its entirety. Although I'm sure you won't read any of it, since it does not conform to your preconceived version of reality.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/93/SB/PDF/09300SB2165lv.pdf
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:32pm PT

Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago?


Body count: In the last 12 months 500 killed (murdered) in Chicago.

221 killed in Iraq AND Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the entire US.

President: Barack Hussein Obama

Senator: Dick Durbin

House Representative: not Jesse Jackson Jr. any longer

Governor: Pat Quinn

House leader: Mike Madigan

Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)

Mayor: Rahm Emanuel

The leadership in Illinois - all Democrats.

Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago.

Of course, they're all blaming each other.

Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!

Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.

Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!

State pension fund $78 Billion in debt, worst in country.

Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!

Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.

Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!

This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois.

And he is going to 'fix' Washington politics for us???

George Ryan is no longer Governor, he is in the big house.

Of course he was replaced by Rob Blajegovitch who is...that's right, also in the big house.

And Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. resigned a couple of weeks ago.

That is because he is fighting being sent to...that's right, the big house.



The Land of Lincoln, where our governors make our license plates
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Perfect comeback Dave. You addressed and discredited all the relevant facts about the blue team there. Good job.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Yes Dave, that's what "United" means... you know... United until you disagree, then civil war or abandonment.

MeSA
MeSA
MeSA
WBraun

climber
Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Americans are stupid.

Chicago is the mob capital of the USA.

People are supposed to get whacked and shot in that town.

I used to live in Chicago in the old dazes.

All my friends there work for the mob now ....

I think?
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