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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 16, 2012 - 02:00am PT
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Many famous and classic climbs have included the use of shoulder stands as direct aid to gain protection or higher ground.
While not currently in vogue, we employed it's use this weekend to establish a first bolt at a correct placement where a stance would have made the clip a poor fall.
What's your experience with shoulder stands?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Jul 16, 2012 - 02:53am PT
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From the recent Glen Dawson thread
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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nice!
going to see about getting a pic of ours from this weekend...
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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Jul 16, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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Good one! Thought this was a way to utilize yoga poses for climbing (not as far fetched as one might think!).
But technically, that last photo is know as a supported head stand (Salamba Sirsasana) instead of supported shoulder stand (Salamba Sarvangasana). :-)
Eric
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Loomis
climber
Peklo Vole!
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Jul 16, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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Clint, thanks. sort of forgot.
My other solution is this:
The Czech's had the shoulder stand mastered since the early 1900's
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jul 16, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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An over-the-shoulder boulder-holder!
Nice, Bra!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jul 16, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
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Olton's Shoulder in the Mt. Rushmore area was so named because Wiessner and crew used such moves to summit the formation in the 30's on the shoulders of Percy Olton.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 16, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
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Fritz (Wiessner) came from Dresden where shoulder stands were kosher. (A peculiar usage I do not apologize for.) He used them as a way to progress, and also to back down from a dicey situation. We used to give him a lot of static about it, saying it was aid climbing. Fritz was a true purist and this bothered him. His position was that a pair of climbers constituted "one attacking unit" and whatever possibly unmentionable things they did to or with each other (I am now departing from his manner of expression for the sake of a cheap smirk) were not any kind of external aid.
Fritz also used a shoulder on the first ascent in 1936 of the Totem Pole (Needles Highway). Harvey Carter did it free at 5.8 in 1954 after placing a bolt, which subsequent parties have been happy to clip.
Whose ascent was "purer?"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 16, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
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When do 'combined tactics' become unsporting?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
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an ethical debate!!! nice!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 16, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
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They work best with crampons....that way you are unlikely to slip off.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 16, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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Dammit, Jim, you beat me to it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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aerated shoulders?
not sure that's gunna go over big with the kiddies these days
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jul 16, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
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Rich I am guessing he did the shoulder stand on the Totem Pole at the top of the first wide crack that sort of ends on a pillar that you then make a hard move into the other crack. That would be a scary place to stand on someones shoulders crampons or not.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jul 16, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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go-B
climber
2 Timothy 1:9-10 Monergism
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Jul 16, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
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Could Alex & Hans do this on the Nose and beat their record?
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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Squamish
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Jul 16, 2012 - 11:46pm PT
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^^^^^^^
Wouldn't want to put chalky hands in that crack...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2012 - 02:08am PT
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I like the idea of combined tactics.
Shoulder stands are pretty unstable too.
Not A0!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2012 - 12:18am PT
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we stand on the shoulder's of those that go before us...
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jul 24, 2012 - 12:28am PT
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Another Michaelangelo at work . . .
;>(
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 24, 2012 - 12:33am PT
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This'll all just give the taggers and rap-bolters naughty ideas.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2012 - 01:18am PT
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rap bolters? nah, they'll just laugh and think how silly it is.
and it is silly, and fun, and creative and got the bolt right at the perfect spot to protect a crux.
:)
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 24, 2012 - 10:08am PT
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there's actually a climbing term for this, from the days of rebuffat: court echelle, "short ladder".
next time you're arm-barring an offwidth, think of what a partner can do for you. the deep, metaphysical question: is it aid?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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Thx Tony! I've got the Rebuffat book. I'll check it out!
WRT the aid question...
It's definitely not aid climbing relative to ascending something other than a small boulder problem. The essence of the ascent is to overcome some difficulty. Since roped climbs are a team effort (unless rope soloing), the combined effort of two humans doing what it takes to overcome some difficulty, if they don't resort to mechanical aid, doesn't seem to be much like etrier type use at all.
Then again, it's like a venn diagram... overlapping the world of free climbing, aid climbing, and clean climbing. at the center is Shoulder Stands.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jul 24, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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Let's not forget that the Hubers did a shoulder stand on the NA as well, in their bid to free it.
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holo
Trad climber
Pinecrest, CA
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Jul 24, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
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You are all missing the real problem here...my son prefers a Hilti over the Bosch :)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
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So Peter, what yer saying is that J-man and I are like the Hubers!
:)
Holo, telling ya, the new bosch is freakishly light weight.
Thinking of selling the one I have.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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from jogill's website
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 26, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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Double Exposure (just right of Insomnia) is a good route, starting with the shoulder stand.
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Roots
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Mar 26, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
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C'mon - it's aid climbing..or at least equivalent to using a (BIG) cheat stone.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 26, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
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How about head stands.....you gain precious inches, kinda like getting way up into that top step of your aiders.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 26, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
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My Shoulders, My Bride and My Hilti
A route name subsequently changed to protect the guilty.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 26, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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Cleopatras chair had a shoulder stand described in the guidebook. My friend Alex Spencer freed the move (scary) when we climbed it in 96ish a a few months after the guide came out. only a very few names in the register and no mention of freeing the shoulder stand so maby he was the one?
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nutjob
Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
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Mar 26, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
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le_bruce and I discovered a while back that shoulder-stands are really difficult if you can't lean against the rock to help balance. There was some cave lip about 9 feet off the ground, with slippery wide runnel above that. All air below (i.e. horizontal roof going away from the cave lip), no rock to lean against, we completely flailed and were unable to get up it. Probably looked like clowns while we were trying :)
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 26, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
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Donini! Re your comment: They work best with crampons....that way you are unlikely to slip off.
I have vivid memories of just how much it hurt to have a climber in mountain boots climb up me on the way to a shoulder stand in 1970's Idaho Sawtooth adventures. We were making the 3rd ascent of a Beckey 1st ascent, where Fred had Pete Schoening's shoulders to stand on.
First, Harry stepped onto my knee, then onto my hip, paused a while to adjust his hands upward, while grinding his boot-toe back & forth on my hip bone, then up and lightly onto my back, then a boot on one shoulder, and after a little grinding, then a second boot onto the other shoulder.
I slowly stood straighter, while he fished for handholds, worked up on tiptoe (grind, grind on my shoulders) and at last vanished upwards on free moves, where Fred had aided on a piton.
My first & last shot at being a shoulder standee!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Mar 26, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
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Thomas(Huber) told me about the shoulder stand move they did on The Free NA.
I thought(and still do) that it was a ballsy move.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 26, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
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The roof at the start of T2 always had a tall and precarious pile of rocks at the start.
There was a funny guidebook quote about it:
"After piling rocks as high as your conscience will permit..."
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Mar 26, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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Jaybro has a tale from facelift a few years ago down at generator
I believe
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Sep 25, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 15, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
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Bump for "Shoulder-stands."
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2015 - 10:08pm PT
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Bugbear? They played D&D back then?
solid example!
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 16, 2015 - 04:27am PT
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Thomas(Huber) told me about the shoulder stand move they did on The Free NA.
Didn't one of them downclimb off the other guy's leg or something?
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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^^^^ Good lord what a bunch of clowns.
Feel the freaking holds when you get there. Either you got it or ya don't.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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I can't stop laughing at some of these pictures. Ho boy.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Must have crampons on to maximize "old school" points.
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climber bob
Social climber
maine
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPKEk2aHjow
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