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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 15, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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Wall Slag from my various recent walls.
Tat
Thanks, ASCA! I'll put them to good use whenever I can!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 15, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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You give climbers a good name, Mark. Thanks for all that you do.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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Thanks, but more what I'm trying to do is to get everyone to do just a little. That would add up to a lot of cleaning up getting done.
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Jul 15, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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+1 on what apogee said... couldn't have said it any better
scott
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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You all give me way too much credit, I'm just a fricken dweeb with a clean fetish!
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 15, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
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Mark
I think these pics are so cool. So much work for me just to clip the mank. I cant yet imagine taking the time to clear it off. Thanks for your efforts Mark.
What size are those new bolts? 3/8", 1/2" x 3" ?
Wes
PS I like the girth hitched to the broken wire mank. :)
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Jul 15, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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Call it what you want Mark, but your doing a stellar job and making the community proud to be climbers.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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I believe the bolts are 3/8' x 2-1/2"
I carry a knife with my on all my walls so it's easy and convenient to cut off tat. If everyone cut off a couple of pieces on every route they do things would get cleaned up quickly.
If anyone wants to send me $25, I'll make then a large and small butter knife. If more people carried the tools to take out dead heads and heads with broken wires, we'd clean up the mess they create pretty quickly also.
Butter Knives
This things are easy to make and don't cost much at all. If you have a bench grinder or a metal cutting blade on you Skil Saw, they take about 15 minutes each.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 15, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
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"...what I'm trying to do is to get everyone to do just a little. That would add up to a lot of cleaning up getting done."
I try to do a similar level of care for my local crags, but I often wonder what could be done to inspire others to do the same. As you've said, if all/most climbers did just a little, it would make a huge difference at the crags.
Quiet, unassuming role modelling of this kind of stewardship is wonderful, but it oftentimes seems quite limited in it's impact on others. It would be interesting to explore ways to inspire greater stewardship in the climbing community, esp. during a time when it continues to explode in #'s, and seems to becoming more disconnected from the environment they are using.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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I'm just trying to set a good example and then trying to keep it in the forefront of the discussion.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 15, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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Mark, I'm with everyone else: you're awesome! I finally own a hand drill, and I need to start doing the occasional replacement work to help the community out. Are there any good instructionals on how to remove old bolts? I took one out a couple of years ago with a hammer and a small crowbar. The hanger was total junk, but the 1/4" bolt took 2 hours of pounding to get out of the hole! On the plus side, we got the bolt out clean so next time we're out there we can replace it with a 3/8" beauty in the same hole!
I've heard word of a "tuning fork" helping? Not being of the age/inclination of swinging a hammer and pounding iron, I know little about them since I know they're modified pitons.
Josh
Edit: I've done a lot of replacement of "soft" anchors, replacing webbing and trying to leave routes better than I found them. I'm with Mark, it would be spectacular if more people contributed to the "clean" effort.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jul 15, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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Nice work, Mark!
“Butterknife”… ! ;)
(one word)
The 3/8” bolts are 2.25” in length. Stainless Rawl/Powers 5-piece. That’s the standard ASCA bolt for solid rock/granite.
Josh, get/make yourself some tuning forks! You will be happy you did!
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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Tuning Forks helped out with a beak.
I took some pins down to the local metal works place, showed them some photos and explained what I wanted.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
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Getting back to heads, it's rather fun to come across a crack with a line of deadheads and clean them all out, it's quite rewarding.
On Shortest Straw, the next ascent is going to have to place a head where I took out that one, shown above, with the broken wire and the two girth hitched slings. It'll be CHALLENGE! It'll be SCARY, you know, like the FIRST ASCENT was.
I would love to come across a crack that was formerly filled with heads that someone had cleaned out. I'd be scared shitless! It would be great!
Wes,
Do what you can do. Clip it on the lead but have the person cleaning take out ONE thing. One thing per route/per every ascent would get a whole lot of routes cleaned up pretty quickly. You don't have to take it ALL out, take out ONE thing.
Any effort is good effort.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jul 15, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Regarding tuning forks…
Pitons are made of 4130 cro-moly steel that is heat-treated. If you are using a grinder to create the slot, you have to be sure to keep the pin cool, by periodically dipping it in water and not grinding too much at a time. If you get the pin too hot (metal turns blue and purple colors), you will mess up the heat-treatment and the metal will become soft and weakened – this will compromise durability.
If you are using hand tools, this is not something you have to worry about. I made my forks years and years ago and drilled a series of 17/64” holes in them, then filed out the remaining metal with a rat-tail file, by hand. (Uggghhh!!!!!) Electrons are your friends in this case, if used wisely.
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ncskains
Trad climber
Nome, Alaska
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Jul 15, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
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I removed plenty of old bolts down in San Diego with a crow bar, small piece of plywood and hammer.. And it sucks. I will have to make a pair of theses, as i am starting to go through and replace some of the super old bolts up here in western Alaska. Thanks mark for all you do and inspiring others to follow suite.
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 15, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
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Got it Mark.
I will make an effort to do this on my next climb.
By the way when I led the wide pitch on the Zodiac, my topo showed a few bolts. I was so looking forward to clipping them. But what I saw was many patched holes. Very exciting lead as I didn't have enough wide gear to leave much for pro. Good times for sure.
Wes
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 16, 2012 - 11:35am PT
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Thanks for the pictures and tips on how to create a tuning fork! I know a local machinist who can probably create some for me pretty easy.
Josh
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 16, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
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Just a question, if it takes so much effort to get those 'old' bolts out doesn't
it beg the question regarding their safety? Mind you, I'm not belittling
the endeavor or whether a new stainless 3/8 isn't 8 times as strong but many
of those bolts look OK to me. But then I guess I just have lower standards.
I also would not worry too much about de-tempering the chrome-moly while grinding
the tuning fork pins as all you will be using it for henceforth is as a
wedge and it will still be almost as strong in its compressive factor.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 16, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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What surprised me was seeing the RURP among the flotsam and jetsam. Was the RURP in place, or was it simply left on a ledge or otherwise forgotten?
Thanks for what you do, and the example you set.
John
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