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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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That Is, funny, Leroy, the other day I was reading this and trying to recall if that was the first climbe we got on together.
I remember two teenagers going over there, and the one without glasses leading up to somewhere around the Vert. World photo opp spot, bailing and saying "there's fifty dollars worth of gear in there and I'm not the one, getting it out." then the owner of the gear went up (heavily intimidated by the 5.9 rating)and either led boldly to the summit, or cleaned and downclimbed, that memory is unclear. But the raising hell later in the day in the Indian room part is as clear as those kind of memories can be.
Cams definitely make that one more secure
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Karl, good points, of course, as usual, but...
Climb it using your choice of Cortina, Spider (the gray ones)
Zillertal or Kronhoffer, then tell us that it's not particularly
dependent on technical shoes.
Robbins boots were a huge advance for wide cracks.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hey scuffy b, I don't know anyone who actually free climbed in Robbins boots except Royal and didn’t for long. They were good for wide cracks and standing in slings, but otherwise....
Karl, for the record, I think that everyone I knew thought that Ahab was a hard, scary crack that required really good off-width and squeeze chimney technique.
Everyone was very respectful even if they didn't agree on what to rate it. If you had great technique and were strong, it is just a very slow, strenuous slog but never desperate. But if anything slipped it was instantly desperate, no matter how strong you were. And the protection always sucked (technical term). Sounds like the perfect description of off-width.
Roger
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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psst-Karl Face out, let gravity work For you.
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Also, when Robbins was reporting on Henry Barber's solo of
Steck-Salathe he said it was a very different game than the
"secure hand jams" of Ahab.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Even though I stated early on in this thread that I thought of Ahab as the standard for 5.10a offwidth/chimney, I must admit I don't remember a dang thing about it. I basically remember doing it, that it was rated 5.10a back in '76 or whenever I did it, and that it didn't seem like a sandbag at the time.
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Yo - I'm going to leave it SirRunItOut to answer your questions about Dan the Hardman. :-)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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yeah, what greg said. Only I probably did it in'78. Seemed consistant at the time (esp compared to vedauwoo ratings, the scale that made me feel cheated when I climbed Chingando* I mean Doggie-do, I think). Haven't been back.
I can't imagine that it's gotten harder, though that is possible. I thought of that when someone compared Ahab to midterm, which has gotten a lot harder (at the bottom where it has slicked up, the crux) I first climbed that one in 74/75 with Tim Wasich of BUBS fame (I think he's just wall-eyed, not glass eyed, Russ) and the bottom was way easier than it seemed even five or so years later.
*edit, er, it appears I was thinking of Doggie-Do, a 5.8 that is rated 5.10, carry on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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There are two reasons for not remember something you did 20 years ago as being hard.
1. It wasn't hard
2. It was desparate and your mind blocked it out.
That's why I do Steck Salathe every 3-4 years. Need time to forget the Narrows
Peace
Karl
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yo
climber
I'm so over it
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hahah, you're a wise man, KB.
"How's Route X?"
"Hmmm...did it a while back, don't remember it being that bad."
AAAAAOOOOOOGGGAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
Biggest red flag in the book.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Then why didn't I get married again?
oh wait, I remembered.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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I can think of at least one other reason for not remembering... I FORGOT!!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Karl, sorry for inciting you.. but my point wasn't to denegrate the skills of that trio of true hardmen (Sacherer, Pratt and Robbins) but what you left in the ellipsis was that that generation of climber was better practiced on chimney and wide crack climbs, certainly in the 5.10 range as that was the top of the difficulty then.
Perhaps I would make a meek statement now not to invoke your wrath but simply to re-enforce what you mom used to tell you: "practice makes perfect." She was right, and it is also true for wide venturing.
Sacherer and Pratt are now gone, no one knew, I believe, what it was about them that let them do what they did... Robbins is still around, yet I suspect the answer for the three, though different, probably would not help me be any better.
They had it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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They definitely had 'It'
I believe that I have said Chingando when i meant Doggie-Do in a bunch of post above, that I think I have now all corrected.
how did Doggie-do get rated .10 instead of .8?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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K-Man - Hey Tom, Anna is up in Yos as we speak! When are you going back up there?
About June 10 or 15. I'll try emailing her.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I'm not angry, just talking sh#t.
I bet it wouldn't take a lot of practice for Sharma to wire Ahab
Peace
Karl
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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what you left in the ellipsis was that that generation of climber was better practiced on chimney and wide crack climbs, certainly in the 5.10 range as that was the top of the difficulty then
I think that's exactly right. Finger and hand cracks could be aided, but the only way up an OW was to actually climb it. So, the guys who got up the big walls were the ones who could do the wide stuff.
Nowadays, of course, people like me just C1 everything up to narrow chimney.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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You know Tom, that is a very insightful comment about wide cracks on big walls.
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Larry
Trad climber
Reno NV
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Funny thing with Moby Center is the Reid beta says, I think, "many 2" to 3" pieces." Which is not entirely true. I remember arming to the gills and using like one 2" and not that many 3"s before it gets way bigger than that. I could be wrong, it's been a while. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ended up running it for the anchors elbow deep in that mama with a bunch of useless small gear.
Reid says 2-3" for Doggie Deviations too. There is NO WHERE the crack is that narrow.
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