healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2012 - 12:45am PT
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Delete this thread now.
Really?
Ah, the ostrich approach to reality - bound to solve 'the problem' for sure and is quite in vogue of late.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2012 - 01:59am PT
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It does matter to me because, after a sustained 40 year effort by Raptor conservationists, the Peregrines over the next eight years will likely be restored to their historic North American range and number of nesting pairs (around 5k). And since 1970 both Peregrine numbers (starting with two nesting pairs west of the Mississippi) and the climbing demographic have grown in parallel with the climbing demographic all but exploding with the advent of sport climbing and gyms. That in turn has set the stage for a collision of interests which has been brewing for some time now and will likely only get worse.
But Raptor closures aren't likely to go away and, given climbers don't have the financial, legal, or political resources to make them go away, the issue at hand is how to co-exist. The OP above pretty clearly stated this notice was on MP as an Access Fund Bulletin and it's not too much of a stretch to suppose the AF was looking to get the word out which the OP was attempting to accommodate here. And if there's an AF Bulletin out on the crag then that means "some one with the power to shut down the cliff" is already 'in the know' and working cooperatively with the AF on a voluntary closure in the matter so your fears they will read about it here are pretty damn silly.
What needs to happen if you want to avoid an real closure is for folks to see and hear the AF's message and comply with it - not attempt to shoot the messenger, bury the message, and continue climbing those routes while pretending it's ok to do so.
[ P.S. If you really do "leave them alone", then great as the birds don't enjoy sharing the cliff with you while nesting if you climb in their proximity. Any perception they do like sharing while nesting is either confusing it with non-nesting behavior or is just convenient and self-serving. Oh, and our local crag has been closed to climbing since Feb. 1st and are waiting for three chicks to fledge, we have a short season up this way, and we don't have near the abundance of other climbing options you have. ]
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 25, 2012 - 06:21am PT
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those damm birds were sure pissed at me for soloing one hand,
im sure if i had a partner all hell would of broken loose.
i guess ill find another cliff to climb on for a while.
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Jun 25, 2012 - 07:12am PT
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What public are you serving with this announcement. Delete thread and put signs up at the base of the climbs if you really care.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 25, 2012 - 09:07am PT
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i dont mean to stir the pot there silver but i was "swooped, with talons out". they are just defending the nest.like you are defending your right to climb there.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 25, 2012 - 09:15am PT
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Her name is Sheila and shes a bitch. Ive been dodging her for 17 years, Im sick of placating her. I dont believe the falcon population is so endangered when they are FREAKING EVERYWHERE. You cant climb anything anywhere anymore. Theyre doing fine.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 25, 2012 - 09:16am PT
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Oh, and when you live here you can PSA all you want. You live in Reno, behave as such. Everybody loves to regulate where they dont live. Go clean up Reno first and give it a big shot of penicillin.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 25, 2012 - 09:18am PT
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Healyjeejeeej, stay in your own backyard.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev.
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Jun 25, 2012 - 09:46am PT
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you guys are missing the key,,, get a few mice to bring up the route with you- offer them to the nesting pair as a toll, they will let you pass !
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev.
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Jun 25, 2012 - 10:11am PT
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They have more pastel in truckee...thats about it..and it AINT Donner..
Sadly Donner is our own lil version of the VAllEY. Roadside and all..
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2012 - 11:01am PT
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Now more than likely because AF and god knows who else is involved now someone will set in motion a closure to the BW from Cannibal Gully to Rated X you watch and when that happens and your stuck climbing at the road cut or Snow shed or grouse area around a bunch of other climbers who are already crowding these areas with top ropes and huge groups ask yourself why in the f*#k did I open my big mouth.
Look, the AF is asking people to avoid those climbs until the chicks fledge in order to prevent an official closure - climbing there is the surest way to get a formal closure slapped on what would likely be a broader scope of routes so in reality you have it completely ass-backwards.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 25, 2012 - 11:46am PT
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They are already removed from the ESL, that isn't the issue; the long-term issue is they are still protected by other state and federal statutes and they are now reaching beyond 4k nesting pairs so there will continue to be a conflict of interests with climbers over the long haul.
Again, if this crag is on the AF's radar then the land manager / raptor biologists' are already involved so it's a bit late for the we-can-do-it-all-ourselves-so-mind-your-own-business deal.
Which is the point here; going forward this issues is going to be a prominent one and the reality is the more it's self-managed responsibly and out in the open by climbers the better it's going to go for climbers and that requires getting the word out. A sign at the base is great, but managing expectations before folks get out there is even better. Also, "self-monitoring" is half the equation, 'self-policing', as in people deciding to do the right thing and pass on routes in proximity of the nest, is the other half.
P.S. I don't give a f*#k what they taste like, I just want every climbing day possible each year...
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 25, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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try this as an alternate to donner.
a one hour hike for no road noise and wilderness is worth it.
cheers
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Jun 25, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
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Donner in the summer is hot as hell and there are a million other places to climb in the tahoe/truckee region. The whole area is pretty much a sh!t show anyway with all the friggin people there. Unless you cant get enough of slabby trad move on to somewhere else and respect wildlife. You guys are just a bunch of whiny whiners...
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Jun 25, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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Having climbed with Healy in the past in his "backyard" I can say he is a climber's climber and a great steward of rock and of our sport in general. He logs more days on the rock than most climbers half his age and is still putting up routes - ground up, on chossy rock, taking multiple whippers onto crack-em-ups (if you know what those are you understand what badass is).
Healy does bolt replacement, trail work, and, unlike most of us that just like to bitch and moan about government regulations and action, has voiced his opinions and worked with park officials. Instead of ignoring or railing against the falcons he established a relationship with the authorities and wildlife specialists. He now monitors the birds every year and when they leave the nest he is in contact with the authorities to get the climbing area open quickly. Instead of an entire season of closure they are just closed as long as the birds are there. If there is a season where no birds roost, they can open early.
If you ignore the birds they might go away, they might die out in the area or. . . your might get climbing closed for all of us. Kind of a big risk when there are palatable options. I always found making the laps at the "office" was pretty fun, maybe a few more weeks of working on Panic and Monkey Finger before heading over the black wall would be a good plan this year.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 26, 2012 - 08:00am PT
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Oh silver, youre so cute. Psychic too, you know me better than I do......actually you dont know who I am or how I do what I do, so f*#k you right in the ear with your assumptions.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev.
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Jun 26, 2012 - 08:05am PT
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hhmmm, i got a fiddy spot that says you wouldnt tell him that face ta face..
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 26, 2012 - 08:10am PT
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check out the thread on the medlicott closure. the peregrine issue is in the midst of some reassessment, and climbers concerned about it should be studying up and getting involved. you'll find "experts" on both sides, and a little pushing now ought to bring some enlightenment that could carry over into related matters. this is not the time for being blindly obedient or brashly disobedient. it's time for getting smart and talking.
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cragonym
climber
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Jun 26, 2012 - 08:15am PT
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As a noob, I am appalled here. You would think that climbers would be born environmentalists, respecting nature and the wild life in it. I would expect this resistance from the likes of Rush Limbaugh. Leave the birds alone, NOT for fear of closure, but because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. There is a lot of ego on this site, so I guess that must explain all the ignorance. We are not above it all, folks. Respect and co-existance. Peace out.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev.
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Jun 26, 2012 - 08:52am PT
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I dont think ANYONE here is saying anything against leaving the birds alone till nesting is over.
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