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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 28, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
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Yeah, it was because of the Eiger birds that the Diamond was off limits until 1960.
Sort of unfair to Johnson, Northcutt and Kor.
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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May 28, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
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viejoalpinisto- "Every life is precious...but why do I treat them with such disdain?" CP Good question/quote, and certainly worth spending some time pondering. Hopefully, it's not them personally, per say, that we find dispicable or "disdainful"(people we find dispacable in general)but some of their actions and motives. They have other, hopefully admirable, traits which we may not be aware of that more appropriately define them. Of course, when these actions and motives in there entirety are what define a person, ie. Hitler/Natzis, then that is another matter. He didn't respect the life of others one iota. And, I believe that is not the situation here. But, perhaps some of these folks should reacess the possibility that their objective of reaching the summit of the Big E may very well cost the life of someone else. Would it still be/have been worth it? If someone should say yes to that question...then I would indeed find them truely "distainful", dispicable human beings in the broader sense of the word!
viejoalpinisto- "You need look only deep inside your own soul to see what is truly dispicable." CP
^^^Dat so true!!
edit: Oop's, the above quotes are from the "Guiding Everest is not morally defensible." thread. Sorry, I accidently posted it on this thread. But perhaps it is apropos...whadevah!!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 28, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
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MH, I remember reading that someone has tweeted from the summit.
Meanwhile I'll post on this thread as I did on Donini's Everest thread,
that it's unrealistic to expect the Nepalese government to do anything
about this anytime soon. They are on the verge of renewed civil war over
the issue of how to structure the new constitution.
The acting parliament has been dismissed on the instructions of the Supreme
Court and the acting president is a Maoist who has called for fresh elections
six months from now.
The issue is whether the new states within the country will be based on
geography which favors the high caste Hindus or will be based on ethnicity
which favors the tribal people who have been exploited by the high castes
for the past 250 years. The stakes couldn't be higher.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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May 29, 2012 - 07:54am PT
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I agree with Largo that the Nepali govt is responsible because of their business interests, and that the "military don't leave their dead behind" is a very strong argument. The fact that the Nepali govt may be in total disarray and on the verge of revolution doesn't mean Everest isnt important to them. The tourist trade is most of Nepal's economy and Everest must be a source of pride. You could look at the chaos as an opportunity also. It really depends how people interpret these deaths and how they view the guiding industry.
By the way, I practice a kind of personal injury law in which I represent war crimes victims against corporations that are somehow involved in the crimes. It is generally not possible to sue govts over these kinds of things, but corporations are vulnerable. Mountain climbing guides, even if they behave with total disregard for their clients' safety, would probably not be worth suing because they are not the wealthiest people. A big guiding company could be, but I doubt it. The government of nepal generally would not be, but this is a weird situation where the government is running a dangerous business with people dying because of the commercial pressure. It may be an argument against sovereign immunity. A typical wrongful death case is worth between $2-3 million dollars. So there is a potential motive out there for people to put pressure on the Nepalis, if they think political changes are in order.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 29, 2012 - 08:37am PT
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Today in 1953, Tenzing and Hilary were the first to
stand on the summit of the big E. . .
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 29, 2012 - 10:27am PT
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Today is the 5th International Mt. Everest Day in Nepal, celebrated with
various people in the tourist business including chefs in their tall hats,
marching down the main street to a rally in front of the palace. The
Mt. Everest to Namche Bazaar marathon was also held. No male Sherpas
were winners, too tired from the mountain to participate much I guess.
The first three placesin the women's division were won however, by
Sherpanis.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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May 29, 2012 - 10:34am PT
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By the way, I practice a kind of personal injury law in which I represent war crimes victims against corporations that are somehow involved in the crimes. It is generally not possible to sue govts over these kinds of things, but corporations are vulnerable. Mountain climbing guides, even if they behave with total disregard for their clients' safety, would probably not be worth suing because they are not the wealthiest people. A big guiding company could be, but I doubt it. The government of nepal generally would not be, but this is a weird situation where the government is running a dangerous business with people dying because of the commercial pressure. It may be an argument against sovereign immunity. A typical wrongful death case is worth between $2-3 million dollars. So there is a potential motive out there for people to put pressure on the Nepalis, if they think political changes are in order.
Uh oh . . . here come the lawyers.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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May 29, 2012 - 10:58am PT
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lol - I wouldn't do a case like that, don't worry. I only do war crimes. But the threat of a lawsuit is a good way to change people's behavior. Of course, it would only make sense if people thought the Nepali govt needed a wake up call.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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May 29, 2012 - 11:01am PT
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Actually though, I think the best thing would be for climbing organizations to write letters to the Nepali govt making constructive recommendations.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 30, 2012 - 01:07am PT
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It seems it has already been suggested that two fixed lines be put up, just as some have suggested we need two sets of cables on Half Dome.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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May 30, 2012 - 10:49am PT
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having been to the big e four times i really dont see a problem.
lots of dollars for the local population, trickle down economics at its
finest.
one of the poorest nations(nepal) are not going to turn anyone with money away.
and china loves money more than china loves china.
a pity about the deaths but when these clients join up they sign a waiver
which discusses their demise.
summer monsoons should clean up the mess(not)
im wondering how much it costs to get a bottle of o2 to the south col ,north col etc?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 30, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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The fact that the Nepali govt may be in total disarray and on the verge of revolution doesn't mean Everest isnt important to them.
That's why at present it is unrealistic for the Napalese gov. to conduct any kind of program to clean up their open graveyard on Rverest. The country is in political shambles. Good article in the LA Times this morning on the worsening crisis in Nepal.
JL
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Conrad
climber
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Back in LAX after a fine tooling by the Taking Scissors Away team. They have my number.
Thanks for the kind words. made it to the summit on the 26th at 10:05 am. It was windless, climbing in fleece gloves and absolutely no crowds. Many climbers leave the South Col camp around 8 or 9 in the evening and summit at 3 or 4 in the morning. I left camp around 12:40 and missed the crowds. wonderful sunrise at the Balcony and good conditions otherwise.
'twas a fine day. The scene isn't that bad. People are polite and the Sherpas are the kindest and most helpful folk around.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Wouldn't let you board with ice tools again, huh?
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Conrad
climber
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Nah... The Peshawar Glock warranted the "pat down".
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Congrats to another time up there, Conrad.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Glad you are back and had a good & safe trip Conrad!!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Charlie told me about the Peshawar gun bazaar.
Cool that you can try out pieces on the spot, but the warrantees are worthless so you better know what you are buying.
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