Look Out! Danger!... Or... "Look Out! Weak Sauce."

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Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:13am PT
But if Jensen find a wood piece and doesn't know wtf is! And begins to elucubrate about that, when simply is a wood wedge for a piton! A A1 technique in Europe!
I do not see drilled holes since you can place lead heads in places that a copper or an alu wouldn't work, but even if they were, don't you think the most rational thing would have been repeat the route as FA made or bail and explain that? It's a matter of respect!
Who is Jensen to go there and do what he did when himself made more than 130 drilled holes on his own route? If I follow the same ideas, next week WOS should be a shinning bolt ladder! Don't you see the contradiction? And don't you see teh hate and perjudice in the first 100 of this tread?
Steve made the SA of Hot Parad'ice and he enjoyed. He sais he wouldn't have done the route like the FA team, but he respected it, made a supertopo trip report and even an AAJ article.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:13am PT
Can someone from China join in?

Given a leave no trace ethics, no one should be aid climbing those towers in the first place.

Or so says Confucius.
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:20am PT
By the way, is my internet connection or Jensen has deleted all the photos in his ex-professo web page to explain his havoc?
https://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/?page_id=168
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:22am PT
And the comment denying to have a meet with Pelut to talk about it?
Erased? I cannot belive!
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:26am PT

But if Jensen find a wood piece and doesn't know wtf is! And begins to elucubrate about that, when simply is a wood wedge for a piton! A A1 technique in Europe!
Yes, he made a mistake about those.


I do not see drilled holes since you can place lead heads in places that a copper or an alu wouldn't work,
There are round holes seen in the pics.


but even if they were, don't you think the most rational thing would have been repeat the route as FA made or bail and explain that? It's a matter of respect!
Once again. The holes where blown out and couldn't be used to climb the route. Yes, he could have bailed and I believe that he should have but then should you and pelut only have said that the climbing above where much better and that he bailed because he was not good enough.


Who is Jensen to go there and do what he did when himself made more than 130 drilled holes on his own route? If I follow the same ideas, next week WOS should be a shinning bolt ladder! Don't you see the contradiction?

This is just a redhearing that is irrelevant to this route.


And don't you see teh hate and perjudice in the first 100 of this tread?

No, I see not much prejudice. I see people being angry about what they can see in Jensen pictures. I don't know why you think prejudice is necessary part of that.


Steve made the SA of Hot Parad'ice and he enjoyed. He sais he wouldn't have done the route like the FA team, but he respected it, made a supertopo trip report and even an AAJ article.
Yes, and it is a possibility that that route was done in a much better style than pelut's first route.


Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 09:53am PT
Because Jensen was never good enough for that route, Raymond!
He didn't know wtf wood wedges were and he also failed with lead heads.
When you clean up a leadhead, it usually gets round because you need a chisel to remove the whole lead (that's why you see the rounded holes and Pelut with a chisel on youtube video; and a chisel it's also needed to place them; so if you see a man with a chisel it's because he's gonna place-put out a lead). But you can use them again! But Jensen went there with all his prejudice and his ego of "A6 rating killer", saw the rounded holes and thought "these f*#king spaniards are a cheats". They've useing alu or coppers and destroyed the holes once on the anchor. When he found out the wood, thought the same, it's still written in his webpage (maybe will be erased soon). So, instead of try to keep in touch with the FA team and ask for information, he acted like a dumbass, a thing that nobody seems to recognize...
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:02am PT
And now, don't come back saying that leads are not sustainable. Coppers or alu aren't neither. I remember a good tread of Mark Hudon explaining his point of view about deadheads, the placements of a head vs microcams, etc.
It happens also in pitons A2 routes. You see the original topo and the route today, and instead of the bunch of blades of the topo, you'd better bring a bunch of big angles or bongs...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:34am PT
So you once again have the view that drilling a hole, place a lead head, use a chisel to remove the lead head such that the hole get even larger, is a good and sustainable way to aid climb?
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:34am PT
How can you be an "A6 Killer" when A6 has never existed to begin with?
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Right, from A6 to A4+ and from A5 to A3+...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:39am PT
"Right, from A6 to A4+ and from A5 to A3+... "

You really should learn about the change in aid ratings that have happened over the years. Many routes where rated A5 in the eighties and is now rated much lower (and not only due to further ascents doing them easier).
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:51am PT
Yes, but a hook is a hook now and 29 years ago!
And again, to place a leadhead you don't use the chisel to drill the hole, you use it to fill the hole the best way you can. And the chisel isn't like the ones used to remove a head, is thinner and does not have a blade. The more lead touches the hole surface, the better it holds the weight!
Example:
Source: http://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/
Source: http://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/
Credit: Rivet hanger
Do you see the hole on the right, next to the leadhead placed? Well, that's perfect for a leadhead. But what's up when you remove it? Probably the hole will get a little bit more rounded... And if you are as stupid, full of prejudices and ignorant as Jensen, you'll think the FA team lied.
But it happens in ALL the routes when you use pitons, leadheads, hooks, beaks, etc. That's the difference between aid climbing and clean aid climbing.
So, that's life! Some routes get harder and some gets easier after some ascents. That's why some route ratings change, but at least in Europe, no one downrates a A5 route to A3+...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:59am PT
So your latest version of the route is that it already existed a lot of nice rounds hole on the route 20 inches apart such that Pelut didn't drill any holes for his lead heads?

You show your ignorance all the time. There have of course been early A5 routes that have been downgraded to A3+ also in Europe. It has been a change in the method of grading aid routes and new wave A3+ is often really hard. I also believe that sandbagging have been very common.
pelut espania

Big Wall climber
Espania
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:20am PT
Hola mi Americano perrrro putos!

Aqui are the facts:
Americano putos can no do A6
Only Espania mans can do A6
Joshnson and Wings of e'steel is no bueno
All Americanos are weak and scared but Kohl is rock God and must be from Espania!
I am best aids climber in Catalonia and el todo mundo! And I am Espanish man.
The only bueno nailing on my US trip was Jeremys madre!
Viva Espania!!!!
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:32am PT
My opinion about the route is worthless...
But LOD wasn't exactly a leadheads placements every 50 cm. And probably they wouldn't be round until the pitch was cleaned. But as long as I tried to explain it to you and you don't arrive to understand it (I'll make you a drawing later), I'm glad you recognized that Jensen was wrong with the wood wedges and his absurd theories. You could check out Jensen's photos on his webpage, but, oh surprise, they've vanished... Is it magic?
crunch

Social climber
CO
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:34am PT
And according to Crusher's report, no drilled holes in Hot parad'ice.

I did not say there were no drilled holes in Hot Parad-Ice.

There are many holes in Hot-Parad_ice.

They are not natural. They are in blank sections of rock. They are created, made, forced. Made with a hammer and something.

I asked Pelut, and he said he did not use a drill.

Some of them look like they are made with a cold chisel, which, because the cold chisel steel is tempered so very hard, and because the Fisher Tower sandstone is so soft, can create a hole that is deep, precise, a bit fat (wide) but great for stacking two Birdbeaks/Peckers. Many holes looked like this.

I asked Pelut. Pelut told me he used pitons, and sometimes pounded them in to entirely blank bits of rock. And he bent lots of them. In places, sharp pitons can be pounded straight into the rock. It's very slow, and expensive, as you will destroy many pitons in the process.

So, the holes are not made with a drill, but they ARE drilled holes. Many, many!

On Hot-Parad_Ice the holes are usable by a second ascent party. We did use them (or about half of them, as they were so close together). There is no other choice, as they rock is utterly blank in places-no crack, no seam, nothing. The holes are still there, easily usable by a third ascent party.

Lots of pictures here:

http://www.supertopo.com/tr/HOT-PARAD-ICE-KINGFISHER-Second-Ascent/t11890n.html

Crusher
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Yes, I am sure that it is just my fault that I don't think that what you say make much sense.

Some questions. Do you believe that Pelut:

Drilled holes where he put in lead heads?
If yes how many?
MisterE

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Hola mi Americano perrrro putos!

Aqui are the facts:
Americano putos can no do A6
Only Espania mans can do A6
Joshnson and Wings of e'steel is no bueno
All Americanos are weak and scared but Kohl is rock God and must be from Espania!
I am best aids climber in Catalonia and el todo mundo! And I am Espanish man.
The only bueno nailing on my US trip was Jeremys madre!
Viva Espania!!!!

LOL! Hope you are getting some care for your Immunity Deficiency, best aids climber...
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:46am PT
When I think about drilled holes, I think about a round hole made with a chisel or a bit to place rivets, made to place a head or a hook inside.
The holes you found, as you reported in the trip report, were made as you explain. Indeed, I've seen the destroyed iron hawk (which are made of chromoly steel and the brand is cheaper than BD)...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Oct 7, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
The holes you found, as you reported in the trip report, were made as you explain. Indeed, I've seen the destroyed iron hawk (which are made of chromoly steel and the brand is cheaper than BD)...

Exactly. The whole point of Aid climbing as i understand it, is to try and conform to the rock, and use what it gives you, not create your own placements by bashing pitons into blank rock and call it A6...
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