Look Out! Danger!... Or... "Look Out! Weak Sauce."

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madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 6, 2013 - 04:55am PT
Ironic how he has taken on the Grossman role for this drama (outsider doesn't conform to the locals and gets his route chopped). If the ropes were still there would he have...? ;)

Don't know who you are, but you have posted some amazingly clueless and intentionally offensive "material" recently. You seem to have a hard on for me. Are you a Grossman proxy or fanboy?

It's easy to talk trash when you're anonymous, "Rudder." Care to be as public with your real name as you are with your drive-by shootings?

And, since you seem to have missed it, the route is not "chopped." There never was a route there. All I found was a line of holes: big, deep, blown-out from yanked-out, bomber lead-heads, and drilled on average about 24 inches apart. If we're calling cratered holes every 18 to 24 inches a "route" now, then let me know what's next on the downward spiral. See, I don't think that qualifies as "climbing" or as "putting up a route."

Do you, "Rudder?"
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
Oct 6, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Huge difference between Grossman never touching Wings of Steel and berating it versus Jensen going up and seeing LOD firsthand and reporting on the tangible things he found.

But it's so much harder to troll with facts do carry on.
splitclimber

climber
Sonoma County
Oct 6, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
^^^ YUP
notreallyanaidclimber

Trad climber
CO
Oct 6, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Thanks for your response Paul. You, Crusher and Jeremy have made some very valuable contributions in this discussion and I agree that Crusher's article in the AAJ is very good. I am sure it will be referenced time and time again in the future and it clearly applies to the wider aid climbing scene, not only to the Fisher Towers. Makes sense that Pelut might have been partly inspired to trench and chip after repeating Beyer's Intifada.

The fake Pelut in this forum cracks me up. Nothing like an english speaker that knows a few words of spanish attempting to write in spanglish. He might want to note that dog is written with 2 "r"s: "perro" and not "pero". He is surely having fun with his contributions.
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
Oct 6, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
+1 to fake Pelut poster.

How long before Rivet Hanger posts?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 6, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
It is hilariously rich that pseudo-Pelut is far more worth reading than any real-Pelut could be.

And where IS RH? He's long overdue. Of course, he just keeps repeating himself ad nauseum, so pseudo-Pelut is the one really worth reading. lol
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 04:28am PT
I'm here aragin, Richy!
First of all I'd like to put the people in two groups: Steve, Paul and Jeremy, among others, who deserve all the respect. And then, someone who doesn't respect the FA and treats the authors with the same hate as we has treated 30 years ago... Really ironic!

I haven't read the Cruscher's AAJ article, I'll do for sure as I read Jensen's book.

I'd like to point out some objective facts:
 You keep having wrong prejudices about Catalonia and Europe in general, although you keep absolutely unknowing some techniques widely used in Europe (wood wedges, leadheads, etc...). In a wider sense, sadly, this is the typical attitude of USA in the world, whereas the world tries to improve looking at what's new in the States, a lot of Americans not even try to understand and keep the cliché (which is easier than trying to understand a thing).
 Silvia Vidal, Pep Masip and Pelut know each other and sometimes they even do climb together as they all are Catalans and ours is a little country... And I guess that maybe Medinabeitia and almost for sure Jesús Gálvez come often to climb to Catalonia. The aid climbing ethincs in Catalonia, Spain and Europe are widely agreed, and I guess you won't find any difference in their opinion (it's very funny to think that Pelut inspired himself when he repeated Intifada; drilled holes and other tricks are older than aid climbing itself, and the ethics about that is really clear in Europe). But what you will find there is a thing called respect. Respect for other's routes. As Crusher did on Hot parad'ice, you can repeat a route and give your opinion, which can be excellent or really bad, time puts the things in the right place, but I make sure there is a big consensus in the Spanish aid climbing community about what Jensen did on the Titan...
 Pelut and Ester have repeted some of the most difficult routes in the Fishers (doesn't mind if they are rated A4, A5 or A6). Intifada or Weird Science are good examples of that. I think we'll agree that not everybody can face those climbs. In the same way, they've done and keep doing SA of hard aid routes in Spain, even in winter. And they've put new routes on the Fishers in addition of Spain.
 Talking about Oju peligru! all your reference is Jensen's ascent. Needless to talk about Wings of Steel and all the opinions it created, but as an objective fact, from the original A5 rating, McNeely purposes A3+, and as far as I know, a hook is a hook now and 30 years before... And as far as I know, a bathook and a bathead is the same in the Fishers that in Yosemite, a thing not so obvious to Jensen since he justifies his new route under the pretext of drilled holes (although he finds wood wedges and doesn't know wtf they are).
In addition, he was there absolutely alone, and if the locals prefer a bolt ladder instead of a supposed A6+ because Pelut is a foreigner, I think everything is clear. Because for me that's the drama, the almost absolute lack of criticism on what Richy did there alone... For a rational person, the criticism should include both Pelut and Jensen.
 And about the distance between the gear, I do not see a significant difference between how Jeremy Aslaksen places his gear in an A4 pitch (weird science) and how Pelut does in an A4 pitch (Hot parad'ice)...
Source: climbing.com
Source: climbing.com
Credit: Rivet hanger
source: techrock.es
source: techrock.es
Credit: Rivet hanger
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 05:40am PT

The aid climbing ethincs in Catalonia, Spain and Europe are widely agreed, and I guess you won't find any difference in their opinion (it's very funny to think that Pelut inspired himself when he repeated Intifada; drilled holes and other tricks are older than aid climbing itself, and the ethics about that is really clear in Europe).

What do you mean? I am from europe and have done some aid climbing in europe and USA and I had european friends that aid and free climbed at a high level at many places in the world.

The aid climbing ethics I know about are really skeptical about drilling at all and drilling holes to put heads in them where considered really bad style.

Do you say that drilling holes and putting heads in them and later pulling the heads are good style in Spain and the rest of Europe? Is it a common practice in Spain?
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 05:52am PT
European you? Really? Impossible if you are a climate change skeptical...
No, it isn't at all a good style, although sadly you can find them in some routes in Europe (added after FA) as you can find them in Yosemite...
So, is a good style to drill bathooks and batheads even in a FA (more than 130 if I'm not wrong)? If you drill, you fill? Always? In what cases?
Why do you accept than Oju peligru! had drilled heads when Richy didn't even know how to use the gear? Because, as an European, do you know how a wood wedge is used? Have you ever placed a lead head?
So many questions, my friend, but no crticism towards Jensen's actions...
Do you like shinning bolt ladders and anchor chains in the Fishers?
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:15am PT

European you? Really?

Yes as I had said before, why do you believe that I mostly post between 7 and 22 CET? I believe that you would be taken a little more serious if you listen to other people instead of immediately listen to your prejudice.


No, it isn't at all a good style, although sadly you can find them in some routes in Europe (added after FA) as you can find them in Yosemite...
So, is a good style to drill bathooks and batheads even in a FA (more than 130 if I'm not wrong)? If you drill, you fill? Always? In what cases?
Why do you accept than Oju peligru! had drilled heads when Richy didn't even know how to use the gear? Because, as an European, do you know how a wood wedge is used? Have you ever placed a lead head?
So many questions, my friend, but no crticism towards Jensen's actions...
Do you like shinning bolt ladders and anchor chains in the Fishers?

So it is not good style in Spain but you still seem to defend the style when Pelut used on the fisher towers. It really hard to understand what you mean sometimes.

You change the subject as usual.

You still do not understand that at least some of the holes where blown out and couldn't be used anymore.

Changing the subject once again to what Jensen did.

Why don't you just admit that Pelut's route seems to have been done in very bad style?

No, I have never used a wooden page och lead head maybe because all my aid climbing have been in granite. I just doubt that you could say much about European aid climbing ethics because I believe that the ethics are likely different all over Europe. I doubt that you for example know a lot about the aid climbing that has been done at the granite cliffs in northern Norway. I am not sure but I believe that the aid climbing ethics in northern europe has had more influences from Yosemite than Spain.
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:20am PT

Impossible if you are a climate change skeptical...

Your edit.

What are you talking about? Have you read some of my posts on the forum and thought I where skeptical to climate change? Do you believe that there are no people that are skeptical to climate change in Europe.

Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:30am PT
Do you know the name of your European country? If you write at night on internet doesn't mean you write from Europe... I live in Barcelona, but you cannot know that for sure... I could be writing from Bozeman (Montana) at midnight... And about climate change, I heard about a single European guy who were a climate change skeptic. Were you!

The thing is that you trust Jensen, a thing that I do not.
And according to Crusher's report, no drilled holes in Hot parad'ice. Jensen drilled more than 130 holes in WOS but he can drive to Mohab, belive that he climb LOD and get an ovation. My God!

Trollveggen has been a common destination for wall climbers all around Europe... Camí dels somnis was a FA from a catalan team...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:36am PT
What can I say? I just advice you to try listen to other people instead of trying to put everything into your preconceived world view based on your prejudices. You seems to claim that I am an American because I disagree with your posts... You think that people disagree with the way Pelut put up his route simple because he is from europe...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:43am PT
I really do not understand why people continue to edit there post after they had posted it the first time. You need to read it several times to find all information

"And about climate change, I heard about a single European guy who were a climate change skeptic. Were you!"

What the hell are you talking about? There are still many Europeans that are skeptical to climate change. What about Swensmark, Hudlum (or something similar).

About the troll wall. Is it common to drill holes and fill in copperheads or lead heads in them on the trollwall? The trollwall is neither in northern norway.
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:46am PT
Thanks for your advice!
No, I just know that you don't say where you are from, and yes, I say that there are big perjudices against non-american aid-climbers and even with an american aid-climbers considered as foreigners in some places. The most ironic thing is that Jensen did in the Towers what he has tried to show for the last 30 years...
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:49am PT
No, in Troll wall is not good to drill batheads, as it isn't anywhere around Europe. Some people have done that and do that, in FA, SA, and so on as you can see even in Yosemite and as the same Jensen did on WOS...
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:52am PT
I have said that I am from Europe and I would say that is enough information and it is consistent with everything I have written on this forum. There is no reason that you would start to believe me more if I gave you more details. You have already shown that you do not believe what other people say.
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:57am PT
Why do you talk about Jensen all the time?

You have said that batheads are bad style in europe. It is clear that batheads where used on Peluts route (clearly seen in pictures (also peluts own pictures) but you seems to be unable to put together those two facts and say that Pelut's route where done in bad style.
Rivet hanger

Trad climber
Barcelona
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:58am PT
Yes, I do belive what Crusher says, what Paul and Jeremy says, when its a first hand information...
And sorry for the edit, but as long as English isn't my mother language, I edit the post for changing some mistakes.

But, do you really trust Jensen version?
raymond phule

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 07:02am PT
Yes, I trust Jensen version much more than your version. I don't believe that anyone that have been there and seen the route say that there are not a lot of drilled holes that have been filled with heads.

The editing really isn't about changing the language but written whole new sentences and paragraphs.
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