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forever once
Trad climber
Berkeley,ca.
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Apr 21, 2006 - 12:51am PT
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Hey Zander, did I show you my daisy chain.
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Kevin
Social climber
Oak-town
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Apr 21, 2006 - 02:31pm PT
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Yah, just was teaching a toprope/anchors class last week on the same topic.
My personal feeling is: leave the daisys and POS at home-
either be clove hitched in the anchor with the rope that is already attached to your waist since you are climbing, or if rappelling, go with some type of prussik/friction hitch back up-
The only place daisys have is for attaching your jugs to, or when aiding climbing, in which either case you are tied in or backed up on a rope.
I'm not going to trust my life to a piece of webbing, either as a primary or secondary attachment point.
Daisys/PAS are for stupid sport climbers.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 21, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
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Done I don't know HOW many walls. Didn't have much use for daisies before.
Now I REALLY don't.
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tomtom
climber
Seattle, Wa
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Apr 21, 2006 - 04:54pm PT
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For cragging, I use a daisy for a personal anchor. To mitigate the pocket clipping issue, I attach the locker at the end with a slip knot.
Works for me.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Apr 21, 2006 - 04:59pm PT
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BDs web site says 3 kn or 670 ft lbs per pocket. It also says "not to be used for protection or anchors" or something to that effect. I guess that means use rope for anchor and daisy only for fine adjustment. I keep learning stuff even after all these years :).
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Apr 21, 2006 - 05:56pm PT
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"Is your life worth $29"
Come on. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you charge 30 bucks for 4 sewn loops, but if I really looked at each piece of gear I own (all of which my life depends on at some point or another) I'd probably have to quit climbing because I paid so little.
I got that neutrino on sale for $5!
My life is currently worth at least $3K, which not coincidentally, is roughly my investment in gear.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 21, 2006 - 06:03pm PT
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My daisys cost a few bucks and have knots. I think it is pretty strong. PAS... Pussy Ass Softy
edit-just googled this PAS thing... LMAO... I can't believe you spent 30 dollars on that! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Apr 21, 2006 - 06:25pm PT
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I've seen lots of newer climbers who regularly use daisies for free climbing. They have these things always attached to their harnesses.
Just like Gramicci, I'm baffled. I don't care if its a Metolious super duper dasy or some other product. In most free climbing situations you just tie-off with the rope to the anchor. A clove hitch works for quick tie-offs, changing & organizing racks and leading through. Isn't this alwasy safer?
When making a series of raps, a runner or two works fine.
Keep it simple.
Aid climbing is a different beast altogether....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 21, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
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Sketchy, agree with everything you said except for aid.
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Seattle, Wa
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Apr 21, 2006 - 08:05pm PT
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People who use their daisy OF ANY KIND as their only attachment to the anchor are dumb. I tie in with the rope. Twice. Ropes seem pretty bomber to me.
I have ripped a few loops on a daisy chain-sitting in a ledge with Mundo. We were pretty wasted so it took until the second time that it broke and dropped us a bit before we dumped out our boiling water and removed the daisy chain from our ledge.
:)
hgb
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 21, 2006 - 08:55pm PT
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I use a daisy freeclimbing to attach to the anchor at just the right distance for efficiency and comfort so I can get the weight off my feet and free up my hands.
I back it up by clovehitching the rope to the anchor and generally flake the rope over the rope when I belay the second up.
I commonly lead most the pitches so the daisy acts as a temporary tie-in when my partner comes up, we switch rope ends (with the rope flaked over it) so the rope is all flaked and ready to go. I find this much more reliable than flipping the rope over onto their tie-in and I hate getting caught short on belay. This is a fast way to lead in blocks.
Anyway, I'm very mindful of the weakness in double clipping daisies and always nag my partners about it if I see them doing it. I tell em to either use a second biner to snug up the length if they need to adjust, or clove/girth hitch the locker in the end loop so it doesn't matter if they double click.
There are a number of other advantages/efficiencies in using daisies for freeclimbing, mostly multipitch, rescue, and rappelling, but I don't have the time or inspiration to write them here.
Just don't assume because it's not part of your system that it's somehow lame and stupid, because it's not. We have different ways of doing things.
I use adjustables for aid climbing but they are too weak for freeclimbing applications.
Peace
Karl
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Apr 22, 2006 - 12:13am PT
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Like Karl, I use the daisy in the same manner. I have two biners on mine the locking in the farthest loop which I clip into the anchor. I then use the second to shorten it up by going from a loop to the locking biner. If I go loop to loop it is never with the locking. I then use the rope as my secondary achnor.
The only time I use a daisy alone is on a rap as I can quickly clip in and the adjust the length using the same method as above. Works fine.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Apr 22, 2006 - 04:22am PT
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Hey Mike,
I don't remember the details, but I'll ask him again.( I just remember being shocked at the sight of the daisy chain.) I'll get the story straight and send you an email.
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Apr 22, 2006 - 03:33pm PT
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Thanks for posting that. I'll admit that I used to incorporate a daisy into my anchors when I was first starting out, but I've learned the error of my ways.
I always point new climbers to the Petzl site, especially this page: http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?Conseil=25&Activite=14
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tico
climber
SL, UT
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Apr 24, 2006 - 10:42pm PT
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I've used a yates rabbit runner in lieu of a daisy for several years now, just girthed through the harness. It's adjustable via a clove hitch.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 25, 2006 - 12:15am PT
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Simple.
Clear.
To the point.
Nice job Russ.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Apr 25, 2006 - 12:23pm PT
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"I've used a yates rabbit runner in lieu of a daisy for several years now, just girthed through the harness. It's adjustable via a clove hitch."
Cloved dyneema? Do you have a biner or a stopper knot on the end, or the other end clipped into the biner or something? A single clove on the slick stuff sounds like a recipe for a snail retreat to me.
Russ, ever done that test with dyneema? Nylon seems to hold up (must be why yates uses it in screamers), but I've heard that the space age crap can really blow out. Please advise...
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 25, 2006 - 12:28pm PT
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No Dyneema, Flexolean, Spectra, Cooltard, Rivulon, Webdex, Overnards, Vulvatron, n00burite, or any other exotics. I just stick with the basics. Nylon is your predictable friend.
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