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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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May 26, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
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Ever placed gear in the shade and your partner finds it stuck when the sun warms up the stone?
Thermal expansion at work.
Guy, it's the other way around, the rock expands in the sun...
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LDunn
Trad climber
Idyllwild, CA
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May 27, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Still have gear at Nomad Ventures Idyllwild from the rescue...
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Hungry Hank
Gym climber
OC CA
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May 27, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
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Guy, it's the other way around
I disagree; you place a nut in a .5" crack in the shade, the sun comes out and hits the rock on either side of the crack causing it to heat and expand. Your crack is now .35" and your nut is stuck.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
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Still have gear at Nomad Ventures Idyllwild from the rescue...
Let me know when the bidding starts.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 27, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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it's all going to depend on the geometry of the structure and the thermal conductivity and heat input history.
I can see where a flake could heat on the outside differentially expand and curl inward until the temperature of the flake equalized and it then it could tend to expand outward.
Things could get really complicated and hard to predict. It might never do the same thing two days in a row, or have a regular repeating seasonal cycle.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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May 29, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Hello everyone, my name is Navid and I am the lucky guy (“The OTHER GUY”) that got hit by the bolder in the ribs. I’d like to first thank everyone on the rescue team and the fire department for all their help; if it weren’t for their help and hard work I would not be typing this message right now. I also want to thank everyone for their prayers and concerns. I went under surgery as soon as I was flown to the Desert Regional Medical Center and as the report states, I had 7 broken ribs, 2 collapsed lungs, fractured kidney, 50% thorn rotator cuff and since my spleen was shattered into 3 pieces they had to remove it.
The bolder that hit me was the size of a football, which based on what I read from Maratumba’s post now I know that the original one was much bigger! As soon as I looked up there was a shower of rocks coming down and it was too late to duck. It hit me in the ribs, right under my heart. Immediately after I was hit my friend Barry who was right next to me suspended from the same rope, asked me if I was ok and since I could not breathe, the only words that came out of me were: Nooo, No, No! He tried to release my rope so he can lower me to a place so that I can sit down, but the rope was overlapping the main line and he could not release it.
That was the first time I passed out. Barry says apparently I was out for about 30 seconds but the experience seemed to be an hour long for me! I had a crazy near death occurrence where you see things which you only read in the books or see in movies. I was standing in the middle of a very green field with tall grass and all around me were trees that were moving and a sky that was changing color constantly! There was absolutely no sound and I was very confused. I did not know what has happened or why I was there. The only noise I heard was “Don’t you leave me! Don’t you leave me.” I woke up only to find out that Barry is banging on my helmet and repeating the same words ‘till I started to respond and talk to him. People were asking if we were ok and Barry told them that I was hit and for someone to please call 911. Barry also asked for a knife to cut the second rope so he can leer me into a ledge below where I could sit until the rescue team arrives. It took someone about 15-20 minutes to bring us a knife and cut me lose. Barry lowered me about 10 feet to a rock below us where I was able to sit comfortably. My breathing was getting worst by the minute. I suddenly looked at my stomach which at this point was the size of a football hanging over my legs as a result of internal bleeding. I knew that I don’t have much time and I might not make if off that mountain. I remembered that Barry has my camera on his harness and asked him to lower me the camera. He was shocked and asked me if I was going to take pictures, I said: JUST DO IT!
He lowered me the camera and I started recording a clip for my family saying how much I love them only in case I didn’t make it off that mountain. As soon as I was done with the recording I passed out for the second time but this time everything was pitch black. I came back again by Barry pulling on my rope since he was 10 feet above me, suspended from the base and had called my name several times but I didn’t answer. As soon as I regained consciousness this time, I looked down and saw the 300 foot drop below me and I started to panic that I was going to fall off the ledge where I was sitting. Barry kept trying to explain that there was no way I could fall since my rope was connected to the base and I calmed down a bit, that was the first time that I heard the helicopter and saw it pass below where I was sitting.
I started waiving my hands to get their attention along with another gentleman which had climbed down the mountain and was sitting right across from me on another rock. I kept looking at my stomach which was growing in size by the minute. I knew that time is running out. I looked up and saw a couple of people climbing down right next to our rope. The first person was the other girl (Wendy) that got hit in the helmet by one of the rocks. Her helmet was broken and blood was everywhere. They put a T-shirt inside her helmet to conserve the blood and it was all red. Also her eyes were swollen and they were both almost shut closed. As she was passing by me she put her hand on my knee and said “hang in there” and she went down. Her friend (Will), whom I believe was the same guy that brought us the knife and I owe him a big thanks too, followed her down the rock where the paramedics were awaiting her.
I kept asking if I was going to be lifted by the helicopter and they kept telling me that the rescue team was on its way up to me! It was hard for me to understand why the rescue team was coming up to me. Why wasn't I just get lifted by the helicopter? Just like we normally see on the news where they leer a person to the injured and they connect them to one another where they eventually both get lifted up to the helicopter. This appeared be nothing but wishful thinking. I guess I was just looking at what I wanted to happen since I was in severe pain and was looking for the easy way out. Hour and a half after the incident I started seeing a gentleman from the rescue team climbing up right below me. He got next to me and asked me a couple of questions and inspected my stomach. The words that he said next sounded like a joke to me at the time. He said "Let’s go, we have to climb down now!" In the situation that I was in, I could not believe what I was hearing. I told him that what he is asking is physically impossible and I am, for the obvious reasons not in a condition to repel 300 feet down that mountain. He looked at me and said: “YES YOU CAN” and he also told me that I don’t have much time and if I don’t do this I will not make it out of that mountain alive. The only thing that gave me that extra power to grab that rope and go down that mountain was the fact that the next day was mother’s day and I would never have wanted my mom to receive words that her son was dead especially on mother’s day. So I grabbed the rope and along with the gentleman from the rescue team, WHICH I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHO HE IS, if anyone has any information on him; repelled down about 150 feet and there we changed ropes and went down another 150 feet where the rescue team and the paramedics were waiting for us.
That was where I felt that I had completely run out of juice, so I just sat on the floor and passed out for the third time. This Time also what I saw was pitch black. When I woke up the paramedics were cutting my Shirt, Pants, and Harness. At this point Barry had also repelled down and was right by me. They put me on the rescue bed that was supposed to be lifted by the helicopter. As you see in one of the pictures 3 paramedics, Barry (in gray top) the gentleman from the rescue team who brought me down (in red top) and another gentleman who I don't remember lifted me and started walking towards a flat surface where I could be lifted by the rescue helicopter. They connected the bed to the end of the cable and I was pulled up. Because of the wind and the movement I was sent into the branches of a tree which was a bit scary at the time, but I was finally in the helicopter. After a short ride the helicopter landed and I was taken out of the rescue helicopter and transferred into an ambulance helicopter which transported me directly to the Trauma Center of Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs.
When I entered the Trauma Center I was asked several questions like what is my name, and who they can contact. Thereafter, I was put under and sent to the surgery room. Thanks to my surgeon Dr. Frank Ercoli, the help of the Trauma Team, the rescue team, fire department, Cal Fire, my friend Barry, my Mom and my brother who have been by my side for the past 18 days and all my friends and family who gave their unconditional support, I am alive today and on the road to recovery and finally back home. I am able to walk now and doctors are proud of my speedy recovery. All the doctors who worked on me including one of the doctors who turned out to be an avid climber himself, said that what happened to me was nothing but a pure miracle and if anything would have gone any differently I would not be alive today.
One thing I forgot to mention is that this was my forth climb and the first major climb, and since I was a rookie, Barry had to give me a 45 minute training on the base of the rock before we started the climb. The one thing he forgot to tell me was in the event of a rock fall, I would have to Dock and Cover. As it turns out and as I read one of the posts from Maratumba, and going over this same scenario with Barry and my family many times in the past 18 days, I am now sure that the one thing that Barry forgot to mention to me was actually what saved my life!
I am lucky to have been blessed with so many great friends, family and everyone else that played a part in my rescue and recovery. They all helped me to get through this. I am now given a new chance to find my purpose here.
I am very glad to hear that Wendy is doing OK as well, since I have been thinking about her and her situation this whole time.
My email address is navidlavi(at)yahoo.com and would love to have any information on the people who helped save my life, especially the gentleman who lowered me to the paramedics. Thank you and God bless everyone.
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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May 30, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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It's great to hear you folks are doing well.
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 30, 2012 - 12:41am PT
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That is a crazy read... awesome that you made it!
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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May 30, 2012 - 12:50am PT
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Wow...Glad everyone is on the mend. Having punctured a lung and shattering my spleen,and breaking five ribs six months ago, I can feel about half yer pain. Sounds gnar! You'll be back on the horse soon enough. Once again,glad everyone is OK. Heal up quick and fully.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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May 30, 2012 - 02:13am PT
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Hello brother, I am glad that you are ok and most of all feel my pain. I can for sure use some advice so if you can contact me trough email navidlavi(at)yahoo.com I would appreciate it. Hope to hear from you :)
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JonathanTyrosisMaximus
Gym climber
San Diego, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 03:21am PT
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Navid,
Wow, what an event! Glad to hear that you are recovering well.
Jonathan
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 04:12am PT
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Get well soon climbers! Thinking good thoughts...
Erik
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 09:26am PT
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sounded like everything was handled great until we got to the part about navid waiting for 1-1/2 hours in his terrible condition and then being asked to rappel off that ledge. i don't like to second-guess the handling of such emergencies, and the use of helicopters close to cliffs is something i know nothing about. however, everyone should know that there are rescue litters stationed at several locations around tahquitz and suicide and maintained there by the SCMA for use in emergencies just like this one. there should be one at lunch rock, one somewhere at the top of tahquitz, and at the base of weeping wall and another spot at suicide. i'm checking to find the exact locations fyi. they're there to be used--the SCMA follows up afterwards and sees that they're placed back again. in navid's case, it would have been nice for the assisting climbers to have hauled the one up from lunch rock and had it ready for the EMTs, should they have elected to use it.
i have no taste for dwelling on the dark side of climbing, but it's there, and it shouldn't be ignored. this is not an atypical accident for tahquitz. i love that rock, but it's a big, busy climbing venue, and rockfall is always a danger. i'm not a big helmet fan, but i always wear one there on a busy day. it sounds like valerie's helmet saved her.
i do have to mention the accident of the early 80s on sahara terror in which a lead climber loosened a block which fell and hit his belayer, severing her arm. she bled to death on the spot. i had climbed that well-worn route with my girlfriend just weeks before and found it difficult to believe such hazard existed.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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There's been a backboard at Lunch rock for years, but there really needs to be a Stokes basket. It disapeared years ago.
There's never been anything on the N side, There really needs to be one stashed there as well. It's a long way around from lunch rock.
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socalhulagirl
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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thanks for the write up. thanks to all who helped w/the rescue....thanks for holding the gear for the injured climbers. helmets save lives, period.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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Hello all, I have called everywhere to find out who the guy that is wearing the red Tshirt in my picture is (my rescuer who climbed up to get me)and I had no luck since they are telling me that he was one of the climbers on the rock that day. I would love to have any information on him so I can thank him personally. If you guys have any information on him I would appreciate it if you can share with me. Thank you very much :)
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Just read your account up thread, That sounds like quite a time you had.
Glad you came out of it ok and are healing.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i've been told that there are currently no litters stationed at tahquitz. the ones kept there have been used and not returned. the ranger is reportedly trying to make contact about them. i'm not sure if the SCMA is involved any more.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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This was discussed at the ICA event last weekend.
There really need to be three.
One at Lunch Rock one on the S Side, (maybe at the top of the friction route), and one over on the N side.
Does anyone know where we can get our hands on some used Stokes Baskets?
Even if they are in need of repair we can handle that.
One of the local SAR units must have some in a boneyard somewhere.
Contact me via PM.
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dms
Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Hey Navid. Glad you're doing better. I am the guy in the Red that climbed up & helped you down. Your partner really is the one that rescued you by being ready to lower you.
We had looked for a litter earlier and there wasn't one.
I had talked to the firemen on the ground who talked with the guys in the chopper and they said they couldn't pluck you from the mountain there - too close to the cliff. No one could see you from the ground. At that time, we ran up the fixed lines - I clipped myself into you with some runners and I had a fireman below. Your partner was ready to lower you when we got up there. You just needed a lot of coercing to be lowered! You were pretty messed up! (FYI - never told you that you were going to die up there - but that's probably how you interpreted it when I told you the copter wasn't going to pluck you from where you were at).
Glad you're doing better.
I have a cordalette and a locker from that gal that got hit with the rock. I live in Josh. Next time you're in Josh email me and I'll drop it off at Nomads for you to pick up.
Cheers,
Dave
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