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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 27, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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The exhibit in the Independence museum is much smaller, but much more personal.
Liked it better.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 27, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Manzanar is a powerful place. Haven't been to the museum, but the feeling of walking the area where so many people lived and were interned is unique. There were still tiny remnants of the presence of these people, and signs of continued homage to those who lived or died there.
Yes, they were Japanese Americans. We did this to our own citizens. We've been on a slippery slope in the same direction for a while now. It's humbling and scary.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Apr 27, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
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I've been to Manzanar many times. Seen the new museum and the new buildings. Taken many photographs. Very important for everyone to understand what happened here and else where in the USA at that time.
The museum is excellent. They do a great job in presenting our Constitution and Bill of Rights and the absolute need to protect them.
I've talked to several of the NPS employees there and thanked them for doing such a great job. I asked one female NP Ranger "How did you all get away with talking truth to power in this NPS museum here? I mean your a US Federal agency being critical of the US Gov. How can you do this?" At the time Bush 2 was in office and "The Unpatriot Act" was in full swing. She said as long as its the truth and we can back it up, then there isn't a problem in doing so.
You got to go and see it. This could happen again if we are not vigilant and stand-up to the erosion of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. (Well, it is happening already.)
Its not just a piece of paper as Bush 2 would have you believe, it is what this country was founded on. Without our hard earned and fought for protections that we have through our Constitution and Bill of Rights as US Citizens, then were just another fly-by night Banana Republic of a country.
By the way, several American Japanese prisoners worked out a way to get out of the Manzanar (concentration) Camp and go fishing in the Sierras and then would get back in before being discovered. I would like to read a book on all those adventures of hope.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
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From the parking lot at Manzanar:
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David Plotnikoff
Mountain climber
Emerald Hills, CA
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Apr 27, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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There IS an excellent story of the Manzanar fishermen. But it's not a book. It's a documentary film making the rounds. If you're in the LA area, you may be able to find a screening by looking at the Manzanar Fishing Club Web site. It hasn't been up to the Bay Area as of yet. Pretty amazing story. And probably the sweetest trout they ever ate.
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bajaandy
climber
Escondido, CA
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Apr 27, 2012 - 08:58pm PT
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Film is called "THE MANZANAR FISHING CLUB" and is about more than just the men who would sneak out of the camp to fish. I met the film maker a few years back at a fishing show. Watched part of the movie trailers and realized I was looking at the Williamson Lakes basin. When I introduced myself and got to talking with Cory Shiozaki (the filmmaker) and told him I'd been there and would be going back, he asked if I would do some stills and film. The timing never worked out to get any of my stuff in the film, but I did get to go back and talk with Cory again after the release of the film and confirm some fishing lore about the area. If you wanna check out the trailer, it's here: http://www.fearnotrout.com/
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Apr 27, 2012 - 10:48pm PT
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Thanks for this post, I love this kind of stuff...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 27, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
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I though the main Manzanar exhibit to be your predictable Federal over the top exhibit.
Drive around back.
Visit the cemetery.
The exhibit in the museum at Independence has a bunch of personal artifacts, artwork and writing.
I commented to a docent on the way out that I thought their collection much better than what the feds had.
She just smiled and said.
We were here first.
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Gary
Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:02am PT
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Spent a nice day there wondering the grounds. Found old shards of china, and the remains of some gardens. It's a powerful place.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:40am PT
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Too add insult to the obvious injury of being forcibly thrown into prison, what the government did with their property is a painful part of the of this whole sordid affair. When FDR signed Executive Order #9066 (you can do a lot without Congressional approval) he knowingly sided based on economic and racial prejudices so rampant in American society at that time.
The people who were mainly responsible for instigating this black mark on American history are the same folks who brought you the Chinese Exclusionary Act of 1882. They were California farmers and fishermen who felt threatened by the success and competition the Japanese presented. Like the Chinese in the mid 1800's who came here to work on the railroads, the Japanese were the next obvious target for racial exclusion
" Large numbers went to Hawaii and to the West Coast. In 1907, the "Gentlemen's Agreement" between the governments of Japan and the U.S. ended immigration of Japanese unskilled workers, but permitted the immigration of businessmen, students and spouses of Japanese immigrants already in the U.S. The Immigration Act of 1924 banned the immigration of nearly all Japanese."
You have to wonder why the folks of German and Italian heritage never got that same treatment in WWII, whereas in WWI they were the one's singled out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Non-military_advocates_for_exclusion.2C_removal.2C_and_detention
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 14, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
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Read Prisoners Without Trials by Roger Daniels.
Written 8 years before 9-11 he asks if it can happen again.
I just reread Executive Order #9066. What ambiguous doublespeak!
Shameful.
I noticed in the appendix that the first resident of Manzanar arrived 6/1/42 but that they reached their peak population of 10,046 0n 9/22/42
Utah held nearly as many at Topaz, but everything was torn down and now there is barely more than a plaque.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 14, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
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Photos from the museum exhibits:
The few remaining graves...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 14, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
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Best thread going at the moment!!!
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Jan 14, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
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For those who think this can't recur, note that we have already taken a big first step. The National Defense Authorization Act has a provision permitting indefinite detention of Americans without trial. This provision was specifically requested by Obama.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Jan 14, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
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I read Farewell to Manzanar when I was in school in the Eastern Sierra, in Walker CA. After we read the book, we took a field trip to the camp. This was back in the 80s, and there wasn't much there other then the roads.
Last year, after our back country trip to Cottonwood Lakes, I took my fiancee to Manzanar. The visitors center and the recreated barracks buildings didn't exist when I was there last, and I felt that they did a good job of representing the people and the struggles that they endured.
Several months ago, I saw the play Allegiance at the Old Globe theater, which deals with the Japanese internment. Very strong story.
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TomT
Trad climber
Aptos.
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Jan 14, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
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Hi Eric,
Following your suggestion - I read the Reathorization for 2012 - it specifies Americans who are in the Taliban or Al Queda, or engaged in beligerent fights against US forces. Is this the clause you are talking about? (from Wikipedia)
The detention sections of the NDAA begin by "affirm[ing]" that the authority of the President under the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), a joint resolution passed in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks, includes the power to detain, via the Armed Forces, any person (including U.S. citizens "who was part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners", and anyone who commits a "belligerent act" against the U.S. or its coalition allies in aid of such enemy forces, under the law of war, "without trial, until the end of the hostilities authorized by the [AUMF]". The text authorizes trial by military tribunal, or "transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin", or transfer to "any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity".
I found in another place that the 2013 version is being modified to discuss habeas corpus..
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Jan 14, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
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okage ...
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WyoRockMan
climber
Flank of the Big Horns
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Sep 23, 2014 - 11:00pm PT
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I had the privilege of attending a lecture by Sam Mihara tonight. He was 9 when he was shipped off to the Heart Mountain camp in Wyoming.
Very moving and a poignant reminder of what it is to be an American and how fragile our freedom and liberty really is.
Go see him if you get a chance, he isn't getting younger.
More info with lecture schedule here:
http://sammihara.com/
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 23, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
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My grandparents (British) were arrested in Malaysia and put in an internment camp in Japan for the entire war. My father was a young man and was sent to England before they were taken.
My father was extremely progressive. We moved to Texas in the 60s and I remember him going off on people for using the N word, was acceptable language in Texas back then. But he did carry a chip on his shoulder about the Japanese for his whole life. He kept it to himself until dementia set in, it got ugly sometimes. Dad lived to see reparations paid to Japanese Americans, I know it was a tough pill for him to swallow, his family lost everything.
But he was a good man and he knew not to pass the hate on. For that I am grateful.
RIP dad, we understand.
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Sep 24, 2014 - 07:56am PT
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Camp Antelope CPS #37 for conscientous objectors was established in 1942 at Coleville on Hwy.395 and the West Walker River . The founders of the Pacifica Foundation which started Berkeley's KPFA were interned there.The camp was closed in 1946.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Sep 24, 2014 - 08:11am PT
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I work for the Los Angeles City Fire Department, and have for the past 27 years. While working at a station in East Los Angeles my captain at the time was Japanese and while getting to know him I found out that his father and grandparents were interned at Manzanar. He described stories his father and grandfather told him as a child about living in the camp. His father was very young and described being in the camp like being at camp and a big adventure and actually had fond memories of Manzanar. His grandfather however had memories that were not as pleasant. His grandfather lost his home and business and it turned his life upside down. My captain told me his grandfather never spoke ill of the experience though he knew his grandfather was deeply affected by it. His grandfather instead chose to tell stories of "sneaking out" of the camp and heading into the Sierra's to fish for days at a time. He said the guards would simply look the other way and knew what was going on and that they would be back in a few days.
I was always impressed with how little resentment his father and grandfather had and how quickly they rebuilt their lives back in San Pedro after their release. My captain always brings his kids to Manzanar on their way to the Sierra's on their annual fishing trips to remind his kids what their grandparents and great grandparents went through.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
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Some mentioned Fred Korematus upthread. As an interesting and sad footnote to the internments camps is that prior to the deportations, the U.S. Supreme court in the Korematsu and Kobayashi decisions determined that Japanese Americans did not pose a threat to the war effort.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Sep 24, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
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Bump
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