Rescue on Ancient Art

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 25, 2012 - 11:48am PT
http://moabsunnews.com/news/article_f9992732-8e38-11e1-b94b-0019bb30f31a.html
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 25, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
Hope she's gonna be ok.

Where's Jeremy when you need him?
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 25, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
Thanks CitiCard. Said sarcastically


Hope she heals well and fast.


Susan
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 25, 2012 - 01:15pm PT

I hope she's okay and heals up fast.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
Apr 25, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Best wishes to the injured climber for a speedy recovery!
SeanH

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Apr 25, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
Jeremy - It's a major cluster because a lot of people want to climb it because it's a great summit. What's your point?
schwortz

Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
Apr 25, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
ill say it if no one else wants to...

clusterf*#k = lots of people without the requisite experience for their chosen objectives out there these days

my last trip a few weeks ago included a run up castleton...what a f*#kin nightmare of noobs. people clueless on a roadside single pitch stuck up on a tower needing basic skills, beta, help getting up and rapping down...

whats so wrong with earning your wings so to speak?
Chickenhead Climbing Gear

Social climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 25, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
whats so wrong with earning your wings so to speak?

I'm undecided whether to answer "It takes too long" or "Isn't that what the gym belay test is for?", so will pitch both.
schwortz

Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
Apr 25, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
yeah jer i'm with ya man...but sometimes honesty hurts ya know?

but do you think the place to start is on the sharp end on desert towers?

sure there are some people who do that and do it well...

for most of todays crop i think some more basic training is in order
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
I've climbed AA over 40 times and have seen some crazy things out there, but that is the first major accident that I am aware of. Yes, it is surprising that it doesn't happen more. I didn't get her name. Hopefully someone that knows her will post an update on her condition. I hope she has a full recovery.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
clusterf*#k = lots of people without the requisite experience for their chosen objectives out there these days

Climbing is anarchy.

Under 2 years ago I did my first multi-pitch climb- Snake dike on Half Dome. In prime season (September) on a Saturday. We were at the base first, and went up. We were slow. Every lead was a big deal, but we were not care less. IMO everyone who decides to sack up, deserves to be there (noob or a pro). Climbers are not suicidal. Everyone has fear, and knows their limits. At times accidents happen.


PS: I was up Castleton last weekend. Kor Inglis. It was a big cluster f*#k for very good climbers too.

Prod

Trad climber
Apr 25, 2012 - 07:02pm PT
IMO everyone who decides to sack up, deserves to be there (noob or a pro).

agreed! Aid, free, noob, pro, whomever shows up first has the right to climb first. If you don't like the cluster climb something else.

Prod.
Dirka

Trad climber
SF
Apr 25, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Big thanks to the rescue service. And a HEAL UP to the lady.
Daphne

Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
Apr 25, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
I could type the names of very good, very experienced climbers who have injured or killed themselves while climbing. It is interesting to me that some jump to the conclusion that injuries only happen to noobs when the details are unknown.

What if we simply had compassion for the injured and remind ourselves to have a heightened vigilance when we go out? But then we wouldn't get to feel better than someone else, thereby not receiving an ego boost through judging.

Healing vibes to the injured climber.
KabalaArch

Trad climber
Starlite, California
Apr 25, 2012 - 11:45pm PT

PS: I was up Castleton last weekend. Kor Inglis. It was a big cluster f*#k for very good climbers too.

Kor Ingils is such a sandbag. And just because it's listed in "50 Crowded Climbs" doesn't mean anything. Sure, the easy lower pitches will situate you up high. But the OW to come ain't no 5.9. I've heard the moans, seen the traxion pulleys. The North Chimney is a 4* 5.9 classic, with just a few OW moves.

nOObs have no business on these routes. If they want a taste, go over to the 1 pitch routes on Wall Street. As I've posted earlier, AA is a serious free rock climb - and it's the easiest climb in the Fishers, probably one of the most dangerous venues in the country ('cept for maybe Monument Basin, also Cutler Sandstone, only looser)

Kevin used to tell me that visiting climbers would drop in, and ask if there were any Sport Climbs in the Fishers. His answer was to show them my little photo album of Kingfisher Colorado NE Ridge.

To fall on a route like AA speaks to inexperience, with all due respect and best wishes to the injured (who could have been a 5.9+ leader for all I know). It must have taken me a good 15 years in Yosemite and elsewhere before I felt ready to face the overhanging crack and face, the loose rock, pro that would pull with a jerk test, drilled baby angle belay anchors you could remove with your fingers...and...difficult climbing...before I'd commit my precious time off,with a 2 day drive e/w from Bishop, to venture. And, Indian Creek was at the bottom of my list. Perfect crack climbs, these, now worn smooth from the crowds of even a weekday. Eve watch a guy fall UP Super Crack?

But, in addition to the Towers are the Lines, none of which I'll consider if there's so much as a single car in the parking turnoff.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Apr 26, 2012 - 12:16am PT
Get well soonest. Good thoughts going your way.
James Wilcox

Boulder climber
The Coast
Apr 26, 2012 - 12:18am PT
Wishing her a fast recovery.
WallMan

Trad climber
Denver, CO
Apr 26, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
Kabala states: To fall on a route like AA speaks to inexperience

Kabala - big assumption there my friend. The spot where she fell is pretty hard and runout, certainly got my attention when I was there last month. I have been climbing for 20+ years, just climbed clean the north face of Castleton (a substantially harder route), and felt sketched where the injured climber fell. The reach to the bolt is also height dependent, making the clip further sketchy for someone who is shorter than average.

So if I fall last month - I am "inexperienced"? Or I don't belong? Nope - would not have been true in my situation and might not have been true in her situation.

Climb ohn, climb safe. Wally
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 26, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
Ah, but I'd disagree.

Specifically on the assumption that everyone has fear and knows their limits.

Climbers may not (or may) be suicidal.

Yeah...ok. I have not heard of any suicides while climbing lately. For me fear is my first defense mechanism from getting way over my head.

And most that do come are attempting to sack up. For those new to the grades it isn't easy to 'sack up' for something that is really difficult for them. I find it beautiful when they get over their fears and commit, even when it takes a while. Much more impressed with 5.7 climbers getting over their fear to lead their first 5.7, than 11a climbers hiking those 5.7s. If you are not pushing your limits and come for an easy route, expect 'noobs' that are there to push own limits. And if you want to complain and bitch try sacking up yourself instead and getting on that 10dR around the corner.

Kor Ingils is such a sandbag. And just because it's listed in "50 Crowded Climbs" doesn't mean anything. Sure, the easy lower pitches will situate you up high. But the OW to come ain't no 5.9.

Would agree with that. The rock is really slippery in addition to all. I thought 'Big Guy' in Indian Creek (5.11) was less annoying (I led big guy and followed that kor inglis p3). Sickening pitch.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 26, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
Any word on her condition?
KabalaArch

Trad climber
Starlite, California
Apr 26, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
So if I fall last month - I am "inexperienced"? Or I don't belong? Nope - would not have been true in my situation and might not have been true in her situation

You're right, of course, I was a bit quick to hit the Enter button. But, to try and clarify, I did mean to come across as judgemental about this particular party, nor its unfortunate leader, to whom I send best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.

Mountain Magazine quoted Ray Jardine : "If you're not falling, you're not climbing the hardest thing you've ever tried." That's how we push our limits.

I think what I was trying to articulate had more to do with context, not the climber. Let's say we have 3 variable on our hands: difficulty, protection, and a familiarity with the rock medium.

Being a conservative type, I'm willing to push my limits, and risk a fall, if the protection is appropriate, and I'm very familier with the type of the stone. If I'm trying to better my efficiency with marginal placements, then I'm probably not going to push my climbing technique, nor make the attempt on exceptionally touchy rock. So, my point is, to try and test your limits on all 3 variables, at the same time, can bring you to a very risky place, where rating numbers become meaningless.
Prod

Trad climber
Apr 26, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
So, my point is, to try and test your limits on all 3 variables, at the same time, can bring you to a very risky place, where rating numbers become meaningless.

So you're assuming that this is what happened here? Big jump unless I missed something you read up thread.

In case you are wondering, you sound like a cranky old man. "Back in my day..." No worries though, I do it too.

Prod.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 26, 2012 - 07:07pm PT
hey there say, get well soon as can, for the climber....

always so glad these things do not turn out worse....
may life be special, once again...

god blesss...
Vertizon

climber
Seattle, WA
May 15, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
Seriously...sounding like rec.climbing all over again. Keep it real. Sh#t happens and, to paraphrase what was said above, if you don't like it, it's a really, really big desert.
ninjah

Big Wall climber
a van down by the river
May 15, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
This is can happen on any multipitch climb and sometimes be much worst. Whats needed from us as climbers is more rescue training. A friend has started a non-profit geared to giving climbers rescue training at a good price! Check It Out!!!!! TheRescueProj@gmail.org/ OR more info at 760 709 1725.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 15, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
I'm with Jeremy.

Too many people want to do this climb without the skills to do so.


i'm just trying to imagine where she fell from. The first few moves off the deck are the the hardest until you get onto the sidewalk to get to the Corkscrew Summit area. The rest is all cruiser.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 15, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
Agree with Beth, Jeremy, and others.


Please people, the desert is serious.
Even if you are an experienced rock climber getting used to sandstone can take some time.
If you are not an experienced rock climber then, no matter how well travelled, some routes one just has to work up to in small steps.

People that bite off more than they can chew because they have limited time are incredibly selfish.
I don't know if this was such a case, but food for thought.
ericz

climber
Ogden, UT
May 15, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
May this woman realize a full recovery. Sadly,... this is a component of being and moving in our fragile forms. With hindsight, and distant perspectives,... it is easy to cast thoughts. It is a grand gift,.. we have of playing in the great outdoors,... may we be kept company with both our intelligence and humility....
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 15, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
Well said Ron.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 15, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
I'm amazed they got up it without guides in the way.

When Klaus and I were doing the FA on Potato Masher in the Fishers 6 years ago we had a clear view across the canyon to AA/CS. The guide services had that route locked down. With aid ladders to get them to the top. They monopolized the route for several days hauling terrified clients up.
Porkchop_express

Trad climber
Southwest for the winter
May 15, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
Thats true. I always try to emphasize the need for progression (slowly and deliberately) in my own climbing. It's hard because I get shut down and I have to learn to accept that as something I can learn from to make me better before I move on to the next step.

I was at AA a couple weeks ago and like most times visiting a new area, I had plans to waltz in and climb some of the more moderate classics (I really had my heart set on the Colorado Ridge) but when I got there I had the predictably frustrating reality check and ultimately I had to made the decision to push now or get better and push later.

I decided to wait. The rock will be there.

I always wonder what goes into accidents and sometimes I worry that even being cautious, I will still get messed up. I hope the climber who fell gets better soon and keeps climbing. My wife broke her foot in a leader fall and it was tough for her to get psyched again after that.

Steve Richert
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 15, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
" I decided to wait. The rock will be there."

Porkchop, no wiser words were ever spoken.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
The girl that fell is fine and out of the hospital. She broke some ribs and had brain bleed, which wasn't serious. She was lucky.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
I'm amazed they got up it without guides in the way.

They didn't get up it and it was local guides (volunteering) that helped SAR with the rescue.

The guides aren't the ones cluster-f*#king this route up. It's private groups getting in over their heads. We wait in line like everyone else.

BTW it was nice to see you in J-Tree this winter Beth. :)
Prod

Trad climber
May 15, 2012 - 08:35pm PT
Please people, the desert is serious.
Even if you are an experienced rock climber getting used to sandstone can take some time.
If you are not an experienced rock climber then, no matter how well travelled, some routes one just has to work up to in small steps.

People that bite off more than they can chew because they have limited time are incredibly selfish.
I don't know if this was such a case, but food for thought.

Lots of folks tiptoe through life to arrive at a safe death. Is this the path many rock climbers take?

Besides that most here are really just whinning about classics being crowded. No one knows what her experience level is.

Glad she is ok Larry.

Prod.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
May 15, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
Glad she's ok too - sucks to take that fall I'm sure...
Prod

Trad climber
May 15, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
Pagan is back!!!

Good to see your avitar again bro. Couch is usually open in Boulder.

Prod.
aka Guy and Christa.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 15, 2012 - 08:59pm PT
If everybody stuck to climbing only routes that they put up (like I do) there would be no crowded classics.

Therefore, Prod, I've earned the right to whine.


Still, people have to start somewhere. Climbing may be about challenge, but biting off more than you can chew is irresponsible.
Glad she is mending.

Larry, has crunch gotten you the photo yet?
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2012 - 04:40pm PT
Larry, has crunch gotten you the photo yet?

No Ron. Does he know how to get a hold of me? I need to get him to sign my Desert Towers book too. :)
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 16, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
Larry you too. Always a pleasure to see you and this rare time out of of Moab!! Hope life is well there.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 16, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Jeremy yes, he was allowed into JT this winter! Glad to see him.
Prod

Trad climber
May 16, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
Still, people have to start somewhere. Climbing may be about challenge, but biting off more than you can chew is irresponsible.

Point taken, but come on Ancient Art isn't that hard. The spice factor is medium at best, and accidents do happen even to the best of em.

Prod.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 16, 2012 - 09:29pm PT
Maybe if she had been wearing Da Brim,..
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
They only let us out if we promise to spread the word.


I'm gonna need some new under garments if I want to get out next year.
Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta