Top 20 Tahquitz/Suicide Climbs on Mtn. Project

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Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 11, 2012 - 12:34am PT
Here's the list;.....how are you doing on this list?.....are you cool, are do you need to get busy.......(summer is coming;...start a tick list). If you live in So. California;....this is your meal ticket.......your quest, your goal, your life. Hang your head in shame if you don't have at least 1/2 of them ticked.......get busy....

1. White Maiden'ts Walkaway 5.1
2. Angel's Fright 5.5
3. Left Ski Track 5.6
4. Fingertrip 5.7
5. Coffin Nail 5.7+
6. Traitor Horn 5.8
7. Open Book 5.9
8. Flower of High Rank 5.9
9. Whodunit 5.9
10. Consolation 5.9
11. El Camino Real 5.10a
12. Super Pooper 5.10 a/b
13. Sundance 5.10b
14. Etude 5.11a
15. Valhalla 5.11a
16. Vampire 5.11a
17. Insomnia 5.11b
18. Green Arch 5.11c
19. Paisano Overhang 5.12c R
20. The Pirate 5.12d

I know Hensel has done them all.......I have done them all but three I did as aid climbs....(oops....).........How is your tick list for Tahquitz/Suicide......

(The top 10 Fisher list was fun;....and got a great response;....thought this one would be fun too......)...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:37am PT
Flower of High Rank 5.7

Yer quite the sandbagger there, Todd..;-)

edit: I've done all but one. Never got the fire in the belly for that Paisano thing.
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:38am PT
Nice list, all but the last three for me, I will still hang my head.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2012 - 12:42am PT
Yeah;...those last three are the crux, aren't they;....those are the ones I did as aid climbs.....and I'm not gonna free climb them ever;.....it's a great list though;...and something to seek out, for sure...
mpandy

Trad climber
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:43am PT
Not to hijack the thread, but here's a little factoid regarding the "classics" on MP: The classic list for any area is actually a computer generated list based on an algorithm that analyzes page views, stars, and ratings.

Amazingly, the algorithm works!

It always surprises me how accurate it is at capturing the most popular (or most revered) routes at an area.

My partner and I decided to create this feature one time we were in Red Rocks. We were tired of hiking into the long canyons, and wanted to do a great route in Ice Box Canyon (short approach!). Thus was born the MP "classics" algorithm. The great benefit of this list is that it is available for ALL areas, including sub-areas (aka Ice Box Canyon, Wonderland of Rocks, etc.)

Here's an example: the top routes in Lost Horse http://mountainproject.com/scripts/Classics.php?id=105720588

Andy
(one of the MP proprietors)

ps. First 16 routes on the Tahquitz/Suicide list... check! I could probably do Insomnia with some tears, but the rest are over my head :)
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2012 - 12:44am PT
Thanks, Andy....the list is awesome;....(and I fixed the 5.7 rating on Flower.....oops again...)...
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:55am PT
Only 11 for me

Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2012 - 01:00am PT
See Rob;...you got 1/2;...you are good to go, brother...
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:04am PT
Thanks Bro. Some I won't tick at this point, but there are a couple I could still add on a good day :-)
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:05am PT
Only done 9 of them, but do I get extra credit for having done 8 of those by 1970? Oddly enough, the one on that list that I ticked most recently was L. Ski Track. Great climb.
Grampa

Trad climber
OC in So Cal
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:06am PT
I did one of the early ascents of Stairway to Heaven, back when it was 5.9 A4. Beautiful line with some serious exposure at the top.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:08am PT
Maybe we can get these guys to ante up....

Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2012 - 01:11am PT

Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:19am PT
Hacky is a fine climbing warm up stretching out the ol stiffies.

I've done 7, they are all 5 star routes in my book and I can't wait to do them again.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:22am PT
Its an OK list, done 19 of 20. (Yes, one with a couple hangs).

Not sure Paisano belongs on the list and how many people have even done it? (Maybe if I'd done it I'd feel differently.)

Sundance

Iron Cross

Fred

And others are certainly worthy and better than some listed.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:30am PT
Done 14, Fingertrip is wayyy overrated. Rebolting developement, Edge, Johnny Quest? Well maybe not johnny quest...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:53am PT
1. White Maiden'ts Walkaway 5.1 - YES
2. Angel's Fright 5.5 (substitute The Trough, then YES)
3. Left Ski Track 5.6 YES
4. Fingertrip 5.7 (Substitute Fingertip, then YES)
5. Coffin Nail 5.7+ not yet
6. Traitor Horn 5.8 want to
7. Open Book 5.9 yeah, probably want to in the cooler temps
8. Flower of High Rank 5.9 YES
9. Whodunit 5.9 YES, but can't remember hardly anything about it, except dropping my figure eight rappell device
10. Consolation 5.9 not yet
11. El Camino Real 5.10a not yet
12. Super Pooper 5.10 a/b not yet
13. Sundance 5.10b YES
14. Etude 5.11a on TR, YES
15. Valhalla 5.11a not yet
16. Vampire 5.11a not yet
17. Insomnia 5.11b not yet
18. Green Arch 5.11c not yet
19. Paisano Overhang 5.12c R not yet, woof, maybe never
20. The Pirate 5.12d not yet on aid


asdfasdfasdf ONLY 7 asdfasdfasdfaf


kill me now!!! I'm not worthy.
apogee

climber
Apr 11, 2012 - 02:33am PT
Done about 3/4's of that list, if you can count a rope-solo (aid) of Pirate.
Brian

climber
California
Apr 11, 2012 - 02:37am PT
18 free
1 more on aid (Pirate)
(Never been on Paisano Overhang, though I once though about it...)

Brian
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 11, 2012 - 07:50am PT
Done 7, flailed on 3 more.

Big thanks to Andy and those who put up MP!
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2012 - 09:50am PT
Sundance is on the list, Randy;...get out the bi-focals......(Iron Cross needs to be on that list, don't it...)....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 11, 2012 - 10:01am PT
14 1/2 of em

All of them to Sundance, all of them up to #11 multiple times.

The Pirate as an aid climb, when it was an aid climb. (70)

Took a bad fall off Etude back when it was an aid climb.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 10:08am PT
16. May take a little while to bag the rest.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 11, 2012 - 10:22am PT
Haven't done nearly enough, especially since that stuff is only an hour away from me. Only been on the Tahquitz side once, but did the Vampire on that day, so I guess that's a good start. Six days on Suicide, but 3 of those were soley for one route.

8. Flower of High Rank 5.9
13. Sundance 5.10b
14. Etude 5.11a
16. Vampire 5.11a
19. Paisano Overhang 5.12c R

Only 5. Thinking Valhalla in the next couple of weeks.

Funny how what's probably the best 5.10 pitch on either side doesn't even get listed because it's the last pitch of a harder route (Quiet Desperation...rap in from Paisano ledge if you don't want the 11d thin stuff on QD). It's a superb, clean flake lieback, around 5.10-.


Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:03am PT
What, no Sword of Damocles?!?

Or has that one fallen off by now...
Plan B

Ice climber
Agua Dulce,CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:27am PT
I've done 11 on the list.
I still have to do the Flower, but always seems to have a crowd.

Some other great routes I like are
El Whampo 5.7
Grace Slick .10b
and one of my favorite is West Lark 5.5

can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:39am PT
I've done all but 2, the Green Arch and Paisano Overhang. I did the Pirate on aid so I guess that kind of only counts for 1/2. Randy is right in that routes like Fred and Iron Cross should be on it instead of a couple Todd listed. Maybe if Insomnia wasn't listed twice they might be.

edit: sorry, misread Vampire and Vallaha as the same and it came out Insomnia, fuksticks
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:48am PT
I've done the first 18 of them.

Paisano is on the ticklist, and I've been working on the occasional inversion OW to get the skills down for it but one of these days I'll have to put in a concerted effort to get mad fit for that one. Laps on Boulder 13 inverted will be good training when I finally decided to go for that one.

I tried The Pirate on TR. I'm not sure if I'll ever put in the time to work/lead that thing. It's just thin, insecure weirdness. Beautiful line, but not very enjoyable IMO. I'd rather put my time in on something else so I doubt I'll get around to leading that one.

Josh
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:56am PT
Couple more of my favs:

TAHQUITZ

Unchaste 5.10d
Turbo Flange 5.11b (The Edge)
Open Book 5.9
Pharoah to Vampire 5.12b (my fav complete route at Tahquitz)
Stairway to Heaven 5.12b (super good, most air of any route in Idylwild)
Green Rosetta 5.10d??

SUICIDE

Hades 5.12c (1st pitch is best slab pitch - 12a - on the rock)
Disco Jesus 5.11b
Caliente 5.12c (spectacular)
Someone Your Not 5.13? (best line, perfect rock, historical)
Mickey Mantle 5.8 Gotta do it (or Pink Royd, nearby)
Ten Karat Gold 5.10a (classic)
Rebolting Development 5.11b (heady, remarkable for 1971 in Robbins boots)
Godzilla's Return (head trip, novel)
Obscured by Clouds 5.11a (rated 5.10d) Don't fall

JL

I've ticked the list plenty times but my fingers are too fat and I can't even start The Pirate free. I tried face climbing it on a TR and got like 10 feet. I can't pull a single lock.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 11, 2012 - 11:58am PT
Did the sword back when it was there. I've heard rumors it's gone now.

El Wampo, Grace Slick, El Grandote all good.

NE Face West over on that side is a fun one also. IMO superior to the Larks.

Alois

Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
Many years ago did the first 19 (aided the Pirate). Last few years I have been repeating the first few on the list. Still a beautiful place to be at, and the rock is great, no matter what the rating. Todd thanks for making me remember those good times...
Mike.

climber
Apr 11, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
TM's Jewels not on the list, wtf.
Keith Leaman

Trad climber
Seattle
Apr 11, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
Checking the ticks in my 1973 Wilts guide, I have all but 4. Some, like the "Green Arch" in winter, with aid. As mongrel says-most before'70. The list looks well-rounded.

Here's a photo of Paul on a free attempt of the "Flakes" in '72. Paul always ran it out, saving pro "in case the climbing got hard". I think this is the second pitch of "Stairway to Heaven" too. (Those plucky Stonemasters were always one step ahead of us with the FFAs!)
I remember seconding the roof on "Le Toit" in '67 thinking it would go free too. Here's Phil on it way back when.

Steve G.
I was there the day Gosling and Harrell did the FA of "Damoclese" in '68. Looked pretty sketchy to me even then! Steck and Wilts did another death flake- "Guillotine"- about that time too and my partner-Ray Palmer was keen on getting an early ascent of it along with "Serpentine" and "Surprise" etc... Fun times then, always running into Camps, Wilts, Couch, Turney, Reynolds.

If the algorithm measures popularity, maybe climbs like "Swallow" and "Long Climb" will be open next time I'm there. Always thought the chute at the top of the "Larks" was a magical place-full of moss ferns and flowers in '65. Wonder what it looks like now.

henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 11, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
For the life of me I absolutely cannot fathom how the Source at Suicide could ever be left off anyone's top 10 list, much less top 20 list. Know what I mean?

Lists like that are pretty subjective. MP probably just needs more input on some routes not in the list and it would correct itself a little.

Gotta agree about the flake (last) pitch of QD/Ishi. Superb.

JL has several in his list that should be right up there. At both the big/little stones.

Also, pretty hard to beat Moondance. In spite of how good the QD/Ishi lieback is, that could be the best route on the Sunshine - at a minimum. (obviously just IMO)
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 11, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
Also, pretty hard to beat Moondance.

Moondance is great. I've done it twice, the first time I had fun and it was engaging. The second (and last,) I decided it's not one of those routes I wanted to keep coming back and doing again and again. Yikes!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 11, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
The Dr. flanked by MP and Dave Stahl. Rob R in there as well.
deejay

Trad climber
AV
Apr 11, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
Totally concur that Fred belongs on that list, Ten Karat Gold too.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 11, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
Moondance is excellent, but not destined to become a trade route. But what does Henny know?

JL's list has some great climbs, and there are even more. But, it seems that most people do the same routes and haven't experienced some true gems.

Also, I'd strike off El Camino -- one only pretty good pitch, but kinda junky before and nothing special after. On The Road is better imho, but even it shouldn't be on a top 20 list.

henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 11, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
Randy repeatedly hits the nail on the head. With at least glancing blows.

Moondance is excellent, but not destined to become a trade route.

Does it need to be a trade route to make a top howevermany list? If top classics, perhaps. Otherwise, maybe not.

But what does Henny know?
The older I get, it seems the less. However, the best way to fit in on ST is to act like you know it all anyway.

But, it seems that most people do the same routes and haven't experienced some true gems.
Fact.

Agreed on El Camino.
Nick

climber
portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
18 from the list, the Pirate on aid. The last pitch of Ishi can be reached by doing the first pitch of the Drain Pipe and then traversing right and up to the bottom of the flake. Did this with E eons ago. Not sure how hard it is, perhaps a touch harder than the Drain Pipe. No bolts added, not seriously run. That last pitch on Ishi is classic.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Apr 11, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
Etude and Seasons End are two of my favorites at Suicide. Its been almost 20 years since I have done either of the two but I remember them fondly as being pure fun to lead.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:22am PT
Ya'll are so mean to poor old El Camino. Sure, really only one pitch, but a nice pitch.

mpandy

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:36am PT
As I mentioned, the MP algorithm uses pageviews as one of the metrics... and I suspect Piasano Overhang is in there because it gets "surfed" for the novelty factor due to the photos.

Unfortunately, it is an algorithm and thus isn't perfect... but it is pretty good - particularly in the popular 5.8 to 5.11- range.

It needs to be an algorithm because there are 20,000 unique "areas" on MP and the lists must obviously to be computer generated for our personal sanity :)

henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:15am PT
I think the MP list is fine for something algorithm generated. I don't really see a problem with that, in fact it's fairly decent.

Per the MP list: The more people that actually take the time to rate/star/comment on a route the better. There's stacks of routes I've done there that I haven't commented on. In spite of having personally entered a good share of the Suicide routes. People need to enter the routes in the first place, then people need to do the routes and comment on them. The tricky one though would be the surfing aspect. Agreed that some routes probably get hits just due to ratings/reputation/pictures alone, with many of those hits having no intent behind them. That's the metric that I think could skew the results a bit.

Still, MP seems to do a decent job. I do like MP in terms of a route database, quite a bit of useful stuff there. Thanks.

I don't know that I even have a fixed top 10/20 Idyllwild list. Enough good routes there that it doesn't seem like there's even a personal definitive list possible.
Gal

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
Apr 12, 2012 - 02:51am PT
I've been on 8 of the 20. Can't wait to get some more done there-Open Book is calling. Finishing Consolation needs to happen sometime.
mpandy

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2012 - 11:04am PT
@Henny,

The reason we include page views in the algorithm is it typically is an excellent measure of a route's popularity either because the route is popular OR revered. We intentionally wanted to include revered routes.... an example of one might be EBGBs. How many times does it actually get climbed? It certainly sees some takers, but not that many. But lots of people browse the profile and hope, and most would certainly consider it a classic route... at least in the Echo area.

We also use comments, ratings, ticks, etc... we put it all in a big pot, throw in some top secret ingredients, and voila --- the lists!




Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
Another great route rarely done is Sugar Magnolia. And what about Pinhead.

And that route Henny did next to Question of Balance. I ain't leading that one.

And the last pitch of Ishi is all time. If it had a 10a approach it'd be one of the best routes at Suicide. Also, Iron Cross is a true classic with varied techniques required.

JL
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
So catch me up here dudes...what I called the last pitch of Quiet Desperation, you guys are calling the last pitch of Ishi. And I know Ishi finishes on that pitch as well, but wasn't QD (and thus that pitch)established before Ishi?

Also, do say, The Flakes, or the Bat Crack->Crucifix->Field of Dreams linkup belong on that list?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Per the Sunshine flake pitch. QD was done in 76, Ishi free in 85. Based on that yeah, QD is prior. But the real question would be when did Zeek do the FA of Ishi as an aid line. I don't know a date for that ascent - Randy, Bob, anybody?

Ishi as an aid line was around for a long time before anyone got motivated enough to seriously try freeing it. Long enough that I would say it predated QD.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Those knucklehead guidebook authors could have prevented this kind of thing by just dating Zeeks aid ascent.

Edit: Yeah, the Iron Cross is good. Did it for the first time recently since I can't remember when. I'd forgotten just how good it really is.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
Ah, well it makes sense with that context.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
I heard Paisano was originally called the Newf_Proof_Roof....

apogee

climber
Apr 12, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
I think Fingertip Traverse is the best 30' of 5.3 on the planet.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
I just sent an email to Lee Harrell.

Hopefully he will join us!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
"The Paisano Overhang is one of the worst Routes, a double overhanging roof of the worst possible offwidth"

The size is a big part of what makes it so good. Just cause you're light doesn't make it a bad route Doc ;^)

Chalking up for the crux (and yes, my face is 4 shades of red from the exertion):
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
Shouldn't it be a list of routes through the rating spectrum, easiest to hardest? That seems like a good trade off so everyone can get something out of it.

Per Keith's pictures/comments: Le Toit free in '67 would have been downright hardcore, in particular with the days footwear. And yeah, that original group of Stonemasters picked a whole bunch of plums, leaving the rest of us to scratch around for crumbs. Fortunately they overlooked a few.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
I bet more people have freed it (P.O.) than you think, especially since the advent of large cams that take the "R" out of the equation, but yeah there won't be any lines up there.

It's not the difficulty that makes it great (although it helps), it's the position, exposure, and unique technical climbing. Just don't get your foot stuck!
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
19 routes (if you count aiding the pirate and hanging all over Green Arch) Never had the OW skills to even try Paisano overhang.

The list brings back a few old memories for me as I am sure it does for many here, unfortunatley havenít climbed there in over 20 years;

Mass climber late afternoon free solo of white Maidenís walkway

Trail races down the Taquitz descent with spectacular crash and burns (nice to have young knees).

Sundance: did this route with Russ, we ditched high school, I had climbed a little and convinced him to go even though he only had running shoes and he was just learning to climb. Because his shoes were slipping all over the place, Russ had to follow the pitches by hand over handing the rope between bolts if he couldnít make the moves. Luckily we didnít end up as a report in Accidents in North American Mountaineering.

Whodunit should be on anyoneís classic climbs in North America list, IMO.

What a great place to climb, something on the weeping wall should be on the list and always thought Y-crack was a great route even though it is only one pitch.
apogee

climber
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
"It's not the difficulty that makes it great (although it helps), it's the position, exposure, and unique technical climbing."

That is (sorta) exactly the reason why Fingertip Traverse deserves a place on the low end of this list. Seriously.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
There won't be lines on any of the hardest routes up there. There never is.

That kind of climbing in general isn't attractive to a lot of people nowadays. So saying a hard route isn't good because it doesn't get done much, well, then there probably aren't any good hard routes there at all.

Past that, debating which belong in the list is part of the fun and everybody has their take on it. IMO, some of the very best also just happen to be the hardest. And if more people would just get on those routes they'd have no choice but to see it my way - ha.
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
All but Green Arch, Paisano and The Pirate (I did it as an aid climb.) Seems like a million years ago now.I'd likely see blue stars on anything over 5.10a. Who Done It gets my vote for all time classic. Long, varied, with enough air to keep you thinking.
TY
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 12, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
Hell, you gotta leave the Paisano on there just because any list of classic climbs should have at least one that's going to flake out the chaff, cut the fluff, and separate the men from the boys. reference: Hummingbird Ridge
Keith Leaman

Trad climber
Seattle
Apr 12, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
Around '70, I was so convinced that the Pirate would go free, that I tried to round up someone to go with me. (I was confident I could edge on my imagination with those epoxied Cortinas). Failing to recruit anyone, I rigged a top rope and a prussik one day and got some of it anyway.

Steve G.-Can't believe you have Harrell's email!!

Tony-funny, it's spelled Hoodenett in my guide. HA. Agree it's one of my favorites too.

Just for grins, here's the little roof higher on Le Toit in '67. This would have been tough in Kronhofers, even with epoxy and sans the brass nails.



Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 12, 2012 - 03:20pm PT
Hell, you gotta leave the Paisano on there just because any list of classic climbs should have at least one that's going to flake out the chaff, cut the fluff, and separate the men from the boys. reference: Hummingbird Ridge


I'd agree with that except I think your example is off.

Has to at least be climbed some, before and/or since.

I just don't think you can call a route "classic" that you did the FA of, that nobody else either will climb, or, can. Just doesn't fit at least part of my criteria for "classic".

The 'proj lists are pretty nifty. Great to know some of the background on them. Thanks!

Pretty neat to look at some of my local areas...(Wasatch, LCC). Nice spread of grades. User driven, and, really nails some nice stuff. If I were a visiting climber, I'd be pretty good to go.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 12, 2012 - 03:42pm PT
A K dog is right, that might have been my first climb ever.
It was totally sketchy and between bolts and giant rippers were possible with the hand over hand technique.
I think we were both lucky to live!
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 12, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
Point taken.

My comment was meant more about the formation of such lists than the routes as unequivocal "classics" (whatever that means). Always like to see something on them that will only be tackled by the truly list faithful.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 12, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
That is (sorta) exactly the reason why Fingertip Traverse deserves a place on the low end of this list. Seriously.

Yep.

Another one that won't make any lists because it's a link up, but is one of the best climbs there is to link Daves Deviation, Jam Crack, Piton Pooper and Upper Royal's Arch.

The Jam Crack pitch doesn't stand out, but the rest of it is about as good as it gets.

Daves and the Pooper for the quality of the moves and the upper arch for the position and exposure.
Pie

Trad climber
So-Cal
Apr 12, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
I've got 11, all the sub 5.10's and the pirate on aid.

TGT- Did that link up just the other day, my favorite in Idyllwild.
DonC

climber
CA
Apr 12, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
Well, since some are contributing wars of long ago, here are a few of mine...

my brother at the beginning of Chingadera

me aiding low on Green Arch - around 1968. I did manage to free this in the mid 90's - absolutely spectacular.

just entering the arch

my brother and Lee Harrell on Serpentine in 1967 the weekend after Lee and Pat did the 1st ascent. My brother and I then did it the following weekend.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 12, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
Open Book...

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 12, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
Ahhh...free climbing in RR's. Who can forget.....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 12, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
I don't have a lot of Idyllwild shots on this computer but here are a few:





slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 12, 2012 - 08:19pm PT
What about caliente ?? just the best
apogee

climber
Apr 12, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
"...Daves Deviation, Jam Crack, Piton Pooper and Upper Royal's Arch."

Oooo...the 'Tahquitz Triple Direct'!

Yes, a must-do, even (esp?) if it doesn't make any lists.

Another quality link-up: Coffin Nail > Traitor Horn
One of my favorite ways to introduce friends to Tahquitz.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
Done them all except Green Arch. Dang, is it really possible I never did GA? That ain't right.

Paisano was trivial.



I can't believe no one mentioned Human Fright, mega fave.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
The day of the FFA.


Ricky (?) on Insomnia.


Rubideaux Jim Wilson on Valhalla.

can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
Dee I was going to mention Human Fright. IMO probably the best 10a there
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:46pm PT
Clarke Jacobs on Pirate, before it was free.


5 or 6 of us on 2 ropes tied together, Alpine Style. Me going over the top with Mari in foreground.

dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
Knockin' before it was free.

dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 12, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
Pat, I concur. That's one route I do most years.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 12, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
Nice shots Dave!

You almost have to expand the discussion to the best fifty!

Add a touch of Jonah and some Duck Soup and Mechanics and you're in there! LOL
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 12, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
Dr. F and Swellly: Probably Chucks on the Sundance event. Thinking about it now, that sh#t was nuts. The Fuzz had me out to Stoney Point maybe 3 times before we went and did Sundance. I don't think I'd even been on a rope before.

As for the Buttress of Cracks thing.... my first lead, maybe ever, was Hernia. Those guys gave me a spartan rack and said to head on up. I recall using a #3 Forrest Copperhead as a nut in some lame ass constriction and totally going for it.... as I passed it I think it fell out. The Boxer said I would have died if I fell. For that event I was wearing some REI knockoffs that were supposed to be like Adidas Cross Country's.... with a hard mucilage glue colored sole that did not friction a lick... but they did edge pretty well as I recall. Then we did the Sword of Damocles and some other stuff... maybe Pass Time?? Unreal any of us are still alive today.

As for the list thing.... I'm like 18.5 for 20. Never tried the Green Arch, aided the Pirate with the Moon Fuzz in that same early time frame and a few years later got stuck in Paisano and almost died.
Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:10am PT

At 17 (no aid), oddly the ones I haven't done are #1 and #19 and #20, the easiest and the hardest.

Here's a question for those in the know: what is the original FFA finish to the Green Arch, above the lip or below? That is, does it traverse with feet on the top of the arch or do you have your hands on the arch as it "crests"?

Wil: Flakes-STH-Flakes-The Price of Fear is a great linkup. Batcrack-Crucifix-Field of Dreams is a step up from that.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:40am PT
Here's a question for those in the know: what is the original FFA finish to the Green Arch, above the lip or below? That is, does it traverse with feet on the top of the arch or do you have your hands on the arch as it "crests"?
-


Below. Crux at the very end there.

JL
Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:42am PT
Thanks Largo, that's how I did it.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:45am PT
Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:52am PT
Makes me want GOOD photos (not that the classic ones disappoint, but we want the colors!)... Hmmmm

As only Epi can! <--- clicky

Can't get enough:

Getting there <--- clicky


Oh, Largo said *under* the arch:
Just before the crux. <--- clicky


Support your independent photog!
ATS

climber
Mountain Project
Apr 13, 2012 - 11:36am PT
Etude and Seasons End are two of my favorites at Suicide. Its been almost 20 years since I have done either of the two but I remember them fondly as being pure fun to lead.

Me too. Crown jewel for me was Disco Jesus and Rebolting Development
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
Makes me want to start the hike right now! And with the Todd festival next week, might get up there.

That is me on Insomnia up thread, taken by Randy V.

Some old shots:


Mike G. on Green Arch


Gib L. on Vampire




can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
Kirk Hines on Revelation, 1977
Gary Ruhl on the 1st pitch of Surprised.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
Few of the easier classics...

Left Ski Track

First pitch of Whodunnit

Kick out the jams! Flower of High Rank

Launching out the horn on Traitor Horn
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Apr 13, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
17 out of 20 for me. No white Maiden's Walkway or Angel's Fright on the easier end of things & no Paisano Overhang on the upper end of things, although I must confess that I have only toproped the Pirate so perhaps that doesn't count.

Lots of great pitches in Idyllwild. I kind of like Edgehogs too but that didn't make the list.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
applying a list of 20 to tahquitz-suicide seems just a bit trivializing. the richness of climbing's history there rivals yosemite's. dig into that history and find your place in it. everyone has different talents on the rock and responds differently, and these dramatic climbs have a way of bringing out the best in every climber. make your own list--as many of the best here seem to be doing. the "been there, done that" crowd need not apply.

i'd like to see supertopo discussions become just a tad less trivial. one way for that to happen would be for important people to lend more weight when important subjects come up, instead of telling everyone that supertopo is not the place for such discussion. as far as i'm concerned, supertopo is not the place for me to tell everyone how i fit into a trivial list of 20.
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 13, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
^^^ = ??? I guess some people just like to complain?

This is a fun discussion about an amazing area bringing back great memories and receiving awesome comments. It sure doesn't seem trivial to me...

Last month, I started planning a day with a friend to see how many pitches we could climb up at Tahquitz in a 24 hour period. It should be a fun day. We're going to try to gun for a lot of the more historic routes. I think with the area's popularity, we'll have to do it on a weekday so we aren't climbing past too many people. It should be a fun little adventure, and there are some classics on the list that I haven't done yet and this will be the perfect opportunity. For example, I haven't done the 2nd pitch to Blanketty Blank. I remember looking at that and thinking it would be exciting if I ever got around to doing it. I think that Fred will now be added to our list after reading this. I'll also have to read the history section of the guidebook again to get other ideas.

Wait, I just had a realization. The Edge isn't on the list of the 20 best, and I don't think it's even been mentioned yet in the tread!!! The cover photo, a line visible from town, and one of the most aesthetic and sustained pitches up there didn't make the list? Hrm.... unacceptable! I think we'll have to try to work that into the day as well in the morning when the friction is good! :)

Josh
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 13, 2012 - 02:14pm PT
Bird is just fussy 'cause we won't put a roof on his house.....
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
we've got a roof, russ--fingers crossed it won't leak today.

thanks for helping to make my point, josh. all ya gotta do is think for half a minute.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
Dr. F.......179 Suicide, 103 Tahquitz;...........I have a few more if you include 1 hr. rock, Owl Rock and the Hinderlands........I need to get busy;...tick off a few more......(I think The Troll, Gaines, Hensel, Evans,Clark;...they got a few ticked...)..
Friend

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
The Price of Fear might not make the list on its own, but itís a kickass finale to the Flakes or Super Pooper.


Wet Dreams could be grandfathered in too, as the capper for the Flower or Etude.


Iím loving the old school shots, but hereís a NEW school shot. Big Jake Evans, climbing 5.10 at 6 years old.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 13, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Hensel will have everyone beat, no doubt. Not only has he done all the stuff the rest of us have done (or should I say "can do"), he has ticked more hard routes than anyone.

Bob has done tons of routes, including FAs of most of the newer routes (some of which are down-right brilliant).

Powell, Evans and others have huge totals. I've done perhaps only 85% of the stuff up there.

There are so many good routes at all grade levels, there are lots of routes worthy of mention. One of my favorites is The Illegitimate -- now that is 5.9 that commands some respect.

....another good link-up was/is Looking Backwards to My Pink Half of the Drainpipe.


And Sketchy? What the hell kind of route name is that, anyways.....?!?

You probably mean Looking Backwards to Zeno's Paradox (a fine combo), since My Pink Half of the Drainpipe is on the Northeast Buttress, quite a ways around and left of the Maiden Buttress.

My Pink Half of the Drainpipe is a Bonzo Dog Band song.

Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
Bird, you're such a ass.

applying a list of 20 to tahquitz-suicide seems just a bit trivializing.

I know, f*#king MP.com coming over to the Taco making us talk about their lists. I think MP.com is a socialist company!

the richness of climbing's history there rivals yosemite's. dig into that history and find your place in it.

Yeah, I'm gonna find my place in history on this thread. You know, with pics and stories of the FA's, the FFA's, my place in history is pretty much assured (as is yours).

everyone has different talents on the rock and responds differently,

If there were only some more approachable sport climbing in Idyllwild, it would see good climbers come around.

i'd like to see supertopo discussions become just a tad less trivial.

I know, talking about routes that I dream about and looking at pictures of the past, present, and framing myself in a photo of the future is so... unfulfilling and trite.

one way for that to happen would be for important people to lend more weight when important subjects come up

Do you know what it took to get Dr. F in this thread rather than that one ->... The gods wept!

as far as i'm concerned, supertopo is not the place for me to tell everyone how i fit into a trivial list of 20.

Trust me, we all know how you fit.

 Murf
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 13, 2012 - 05:25pm PT
LMFAO!

Quick, someone save that!

Ha ha.

See you next weekend, Murf!
Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
Looking forward to it Brian.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 13, 2012 - 05:34pm PT
Bird, you're such a ass.

applying a list of 20 to tahquitz-suicide seems just a bit trivializing.

I know, f*#king MP.com coming over to the Taco making us talk about their lists. I think MP.com is a socialist company!

the richness of climbing's history there rivals yosemite's. dig into that history and find your place in it.

Yeah, I'm gonna find my place in history on this thread. You know, with pics and stories of the FA's, the FFA's, my place in history is pretty much assured (as is yours).

everyone has different talents on the rock and responds differently,

If there were only some more approachable sport climbing in Idyllwild, it would see good climbers come around.

i'd like to see supertopo discussions become just a tad less trivial.

I know, talking about routes that I dream about and looking at pictures of the past, present, and framing myself in a photo of the future is so... unfulfilling and trite.

one way for that to happen would be for important people to lend more weight when important subjects come up

Do you know what it took to get Dr. F in this thread rather than that one ->... The gods wept!

as far as i'm concerned, supertopo is not the place for me to tell everyone how i fit into a trivial list of 20.

Trust me, we all know how you fit.

Murf

LOLZ! That ought to cover it!
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 13, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
Randy, did you take that pic of Rick with my camera, hmm?

I'll have to check my totals. For quite a few years Hennie and I were working to do all the routes at both rocks. I came close but I know he had a few more than I did. Oh yeah, that was a little before Bobbie Gainse's (sp?) big push to clean up.

Nice Murf!
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 13, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
LOLZ! That ought to cover it!

F8kkin' A!!
Nice work Murf!!!
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 13, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
Josh,

The Edge is yet another one that is hard to top. I suspect it isn't in the list because it doesn't get done quite enough, remember, that list is algorithm generated (not that it's bad). JL did allude to it with his first post when he mentioned Turbo Flange (or the Edge.) It is certainly in my top 10 at Tahquitz. I couldn't do it enough after the first time I did it. Pretty hard to top the aesthetics of that line and the satisfaction of stepping up to it, all the while marvelling at TS drilling that bolt.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
let's lay it on the line here.

it begins with todd trying to discourage discussion on the joshua tree bolting ethics thread. that thread was worthless without him, and it died a natural death. i myself laid off it, mostly at his behest and henny's. i don't know everyone, i don't know every climb, i don't know all the big secrets. but that thread was begun by the climbing ranger, and i think it deserved to have been taken more seriously. it involved issues i encountered time and again during a busy year of guiding there. todd, as the author of a forthcoming sport climber's guidebook, ought to figure out how to address those issues and not shy away from the difficulties. without todd, all the talk took place in a vacuum. now, for encores, he's starting a pretty light treatment of tahquitz/suicide.

my other gripe is with russ. i don't think we don't need adbots arising within supertopo.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 13, 2012 - 06:43pm PT
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 13, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
my other gripe is with russ. i don't think we don't need adbots arising within supertopo.

What has that got to do with this thread? Oh, that's right, you are down on Gordon, and Gordon climbs at Josh and Taquitz. Got it. Maybe you should stick to the Ark on the Moon stuff.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
Getting back on track...

Conga line on The Vampire, June 18th, 1994


We started up Sahara Terror. Had never done it before. This was a couple of years after someone got creamed by rockfall on the route and bled to death at one of the upper belays. Somewhere near the top of the route, I got off and we ended up finishing on some pretty burly climbing on Magical Mystery Tour, as near as I could ever figure out. June 19th, 1993


Buddy coming up the second pitch on Whodunnit. What a fun route.
One of the very few at Tahq that I've done multiple times. June 14th, 1996


Check this one out... standard apre-climbing beefcake shot in the parking lot at Humber Park.
The gotcha here is the June 1993 shot of Medium Sooze, dead center in the back with the early 90's doo. :-)

Murf

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
let's lay it on the line here.

Never go against a Bird, when death is on the line!

it begins with todd trying to discourage discussion on the joshua tree bolting ethics thread.

No, it begins with an automated list via MP.com on the best routes of T&S. As an aside, if you want to have an interesting discussion, see this TED discussion about how human "censors" (used to be called editors) have been replaced with algorithms ( Check it!. Oh how I wish I could put you in a bubble!


that thread was worthless without him, blah blah without todd, all the talk took place in a vacuum. now, for encores, he's starting a pretty light treatment of tahquitz-suicide.

Tony, let me tell it to you straight. **F*#k you** Todd doesn't answer to you or anyone about all the ills of all bolting in Josh. You got a complaint about one or some of his routes, do it like I do... to his face. He'll laugh, tell you something attracted him to the face/crack/whatever, and you'll leave feeling like you made a friend.

Regarding that other thread, go to the climber's coffee that occurs every Saturday and ask the climbing ranger what's up. You know, there in the real world with the people who are involved. Someone might take you seriously then.

my other gripe is with russ. i don't think we don't need adbots arising within supertopo.

"adbots"? I must have missed the Fish ads that proliferate this site. I mean, my meager technical skills do ensure I don't see 98% of all ads, but still, even if decloak, I haven't seen Russ advertise any if at all.

If you're talking about Gordofest 2012? Then I have to say again, and with empahsis, f*#k You. Russ is stepping up with a local guy who deserves something back from the community. If you don't like it, don't click on it.


But still, lets assume that you are at heart a climber. Tell me a story Tony; tell me about the first, last, any time at Tahquitz... The time you cursed Vogel for rating The Swallow 5.8, the time you realize so many of the cracks have that extra layback spitter just off the edge, or about the time you realize most of the routes are on a natural watercourse and that sucks in an afternoon rainstorm....

Just anything to drown out the annoying whinging I hear in my head anytime I see your name on the Taco.

-Murf
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:13pm PT
I was just telling Sooze how shy Murf is....
matisse

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
juniper flats is my vote too:. lizard king dihedral
matisse

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
^^^^ the gunshots in the background and wrecked cars just kind of add to the ambiance too :)
Brian

climber
California
Apr 13, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
Random input...

I'll second Josh's praise of Blanketty Blank (I love the first pitch too), the upthread (Murf?) praise of Bat Crack to Crucifix to Field of Dreams (best harder link up), and the praise of Fred (so, so good!).

I'd add Fright Night as a fine climb too.

For the hardmen up above who have not done Angel's Fright: it's a must do. Stellar, stellar easy route.

Artificial or not, this list is getting me all psyched to have a go at either Pisano or the Pirate, the only two on the original list I've not led.

The Edge is super proud. Somewhere on the Taco I've got my praise of that route and those who have onsighted it, written after I finally realized my middle-aged wimpy-ass should toprope it before the lead (and I never went back for the lead). Kudos to all you folks who have stepped up to that one!

matisse

climber
Apr 13, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
I really like Juniper Flats..I didn't mean to sound like I didn't. a mini woodson without the bushwacking. agree that it is under-appreciated.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 13, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
How about laps up things. I know I have climbed the Paisano Jam Crack, Frustration, Insomnia, Hernia, Low Pressure, Upside Down Cake, and a couple others more over fifty times each, basically every time I was at the crag, walking by or as a day's end kind of thing. And routes like Valhalla, Rebolting, Ten Karat, Disco Jesus (a fav), Sundance, and others I've done twenty times at least. Even routes like Le Toit and The Flakes and the Bat Crack I have done dozens of times out of boredom. I went there too much in the early to mid 70s. I ended climbing Upside Down Cake so many times (just to get a little jamming in) I'd lead it and downcling it and take the nuts out. That's when you know you've been at an area too much. Richard and I used to go up on the Weeping Wall on a weekday and spent all day up there, climbing all over, looping around and clipping bolts.

But Gaines, who's been up there for like 65 years, must have done the standard slab routes at Suicide well over 100 times apiece.

There were some routes I wish I had done and never did. Like the Sham, Ishi, The Wave, and a few others . . .

JL
deejay

Trad climber
AV
Apr 13, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
Dr F, isn't that shot of Todd Battey at Wagon Wheel?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 13, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
I'll offer this as a piece of Suicide minuta. It's not much more.

As Dave said, there were some of us who were trying to do all the routes and we were downright motivated toward that end. It was a friendly race and we would routinely combine forces to leverage each others willingness to do the obscure piles. Not to say we weren't still trying to somehow trip or slow down the other guy so he would come in second... hence the targeted route name "The Untickable"... hehe. Eventually I revised and set a personal goal of just climbing every known route at Suicide - TR/aid lines included.

Reached that personal goal the summer of '95. Accept/discredit the following caveats accordingly if that's your thing.

Not all routes/pitches were led. Following/swinging was acceptable. It was more about successfully climbing the pitches without falls/hangs than it was leading every pitch or every route. A small number of lead routes or pitches were TR'd - might have had a hard time leading some of them.

PO was done with aid. I, like a few others, never had the burning drive to go back until I could do it free. Still don't really feel bad about accepting a mixed route as it was only a personal goal anyway.

A lot of good memories were made along the way. I do feel a little silly talking about it but maybe someone will step it up, eliminate having even one aid route, or leading every leadable route, or, well, who knows what.

Kind of pointless and trivial stuff.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 13, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
You need to ask someone like Gaines if you're after the potential leader in numbers combined for both sides. He's continued climbing up there, so by now I would think he'd be hard to top (particularly since he's been up there for like, 65 years - per the Big Man.)

Besides, if I had a number I'd only stand to lose. I already lost my local status at JT by not being over 1000 routes. Whatever number I come up with for Idyllwild would surely end up not making the cut and then I wouldn't be able to say I was ever a local there either. Nothing good can come of it, only bad.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
Six more and I can pass up Dr. F........I know what I have to do this summer.......
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 13, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
I thought I had 100 on Tahquitz, but it's only around 75.

Never kept track on Suicide, but probably not more than 30.

I'll volunteer as belay slave Todd,

You can drag me up a couple of dozen more.

Bring Tucker!

He's only done two!
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 14, 2012 - 01:10am PT
DE, that picture of Ricky was taken by me with my camera. I made a big print of it and had it mounted in masonite (at the time I was inspired by Larry Reynold's big B&W prints of Ivan Couch). Anyway, a few years back I pulled it out of storage and gave it to you. Bummer is I think the negatives all got lost.

Murf. Just about snorted my Ale out the nose with that post.

This thread has me getting psyched for Summer. Maybe I can tick a few new ones.
dogtown

Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
Apr 14, 2012 - 03:16am PT
Hi, Todd

Well, Iím happy to report I have lead them all, but one The Pirate. There are so many classic routes itís no doubt my all time favorite day trip crag. Thought I would throw out a few more routes for the list All on Suicide just off the top of my head;

The Iron Cross 5.11a
New Generation 5.11c
Voodoo Child 5.11b
Ten Karat Gold 5.10a
Sampson 5.9
Mickey Mantle 5.8
Rebolting Development 5.11a
Jammit 5.9
The Man who fell to Earth 5.11a
Moondance 5.11 c

I heard from some folks that the crag doesnít see that much activity these days. If thatís the case and I was out there I would be there every chance I got ! Just like the old days.

Have fun out there!

Dr.F
Pay no attention to Hensel for years he was the king of Suicide! But I do agree both of the big guys Largo and Gaines have a lot of footage out there.

Bruce
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:22am PT
I think I've seen people on almost every route at both crags over the years. What I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:39am PT
But Gaines, who's been up there for like 65 years

I'm only 52!

I think it's truly remarkable and impressive that Darrell Hensel has done every route at Suicide, and my guess is that he's done more routes at T&S than anyone.

I might have the record for the most first ascents (136).
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 10:31am PT
rest assured, murf, i've climbed around here for 30 years and i know a bit about it. if russ is the one throwing the big party, i wish him well with it, and i forgive his bottitude this once.

i'm not out to make a big issue of todd, but i think he could easily become one. i wish him well too, with the party, the roof on his house, his bolt placements, which seem to be so impeccable they don't need to be discussed (a real first in the history of climbing), and his rumored upcoming guidebook to the many, many sport climbs of joshua tree national park. maybe it's just me, but i keep getting the feeling that a lot of people are keeping hush-hush about these subjects so the book will have good sales. i was in the newspaper business, and i know the value of a scoop. still, i think a thread called "moderate sport routes in JTNP" could become the hottest climbing post in southern california, way hotter than this one, and there would be fewer broken bones out there while people are waiting for the presses to roll.

would such a thread cut into guidebook sales? yes, it might, a bit, but an authoritative guidebook on the subject is bound to have great sales anyway. someone who really cares about the climbing community, especially the next generation of it, shouldn't give a damn about the sales graph.
deejay

Trad climber
AV
Apr 14, 2012 - 10:58am PT
Hairlip at least deserves honorable mention if not top 20. Done 14 on that list but a list of only 20 doesn't do the place just justice. This thread has me phsyched to get back out there.

Dr. F, check your So Cal bouldering guide. It has that same photo called out as Wagon Wheel.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:20am PT
there's a bunch of routes at both crags that have been noted as worthy of the list or at least of note, yet some of them are one or two move wonders. Routes like Super Pooper, Dave's Deviation, Etude, Even El Camino with its last move issues is over too soon. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder and all that. But what makes them worthy for inclusion? To me there should be a sustained nature element to the climbing.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:23am PT
I don't see what is so tough about the gear on Iron Cross. that thin crack takes bomber gear. Start with a 1 inch cam and build your system from there.

Now that Purple Rain thing that comes to the Iron Cross crack from the other side so your rope is pulling out on the first gear you get is another kind of game altogether...
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:25am PT
all but 6
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:52am PT
I think this topic brings out the difference between conservatives and liberal/progressives

Conservatives: deals with the problems at face value, and doesn't want any handouts or coddling, ie: retro bolts

Libs: always wanting more, and are mostly pussies looking for something for free, ie: added bolts that someone else paid for.

Whenever I even think for a second about adding a bolt to an established route, I now ask myself, "what would BlueRing do???" and then just keep climbing.

Always liked that Daves Devo thing. And Human Fright.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Apr 14, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
Speaking of added bolts, I was not familiar with "The Price of Fear," mentioned above. I looked it up in Randy's guide and it's one I've done, but under another name.

In the old Wilts guide, this route was described as a variation on Super Pooper, the Mckinny-Prodonavitch, named after the first ascent team. Tobin and Matt Cox did the first free ascent in 1972, and I did it with Gib or Richard later in the 70's.

In Randy's guide, it shows three bolts before the end of the pitch, but these three bolts were not mentioned in Wilts' description. And I don't recall them either.

Were these bolts added later, or is my memory just wrong?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
If route was put up with very poor pro, and is on the verge of being a death trap, and only the most expert climbers can repeat it...
It should be fixed, as a gift to the climbing community.

I laugh robustly at your pussyness!!

FACT: Iron Cross is almost challenging enough to be a warm-up for The Pirate.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 14, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
What I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
-----


The Frightful Fright was one of the last old aid routes left at Tahquitz when I caught wind of it sometime in the last 70s. Seems like we did most everything in that area that was natural and obvious including a direct finish to Blankity Blank. Then I went up and took a close look at Frightful Fright with Eric E. We both thought it would go but - it was just a short but clearly grim section on (I think) the first pitch. But the thin crack was plugged up with some old fixed gear so we had to spend that first exploratory dicking around hammering and cleaning stuff to free up the finger locks and I remember relocating one of the pins so the crux was well protected. I went back up there with Mike Lechlinski and we both did it right off but it felt hard.

Some years later I saw that it was rated 5.11d and always wondered who repeated it how they ever arrived at that rating. It seemed harder, like a nasty boulder sequence in the middle of a 5.10 pitch, but we were working the bong pretty liberally back in those days so who knows. I haven't thought about that route in, like, 75 years, and have never heard of anyone else who ever did it.

Also, as I said way back on this thread, I think an old EE route called Sugar Magnolia is a real good one, as is Arpa Carpa and the little known, Wild Gazongas, which is one of the first times Rick Accomazzo ran the rope big time. Other obscurites include Litle Momma (cranker hard crux and worthless route), The Reach (top flight), Paux de Deux (sp??) direct, Flakes of Wrath with the direct finish, and the 10a route on Eagle Pinnacle, which is a spooker. And if Double Exposure had a good and reasonable start it too would be all time. The free start is hard and flaky and shitty and the aid start is, well, aid. Too bad.

JL

PS: And the 5.11d rating for Race with the Devil is just silly talk. That's a 5.12 start if ever there was one and a normal 5.11 leader would sh#t a cinder block trying to on sight this one. I remember leading this right after Tony did it and thinking I was basically soloing the first pitch. Later I head that Henny soloed the opening lead and that made sense because Henny was good like that. You might as well. I went back there in the mid-80s with DB and Mari and shite had ripped off and it was a pretty grim 10 or so feet to get started and standing up in that little scallop. I remember standing there at the bottom with Mari trying to figure out where the holds were. Find that in the middle of a pitch somewhere and it's .12c.

And what about Picante? I had to take over the lead for Henny because he got frightened up top when the hold thinned out and he didn't know what to do. And if you believe that . . .

Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
You could post about vanilla pudding on supertopo, and it would more than not, turn into some internet spat and boiling pot, wouldn't it. Tony Bird makes a good point;...as far as sport routes and joshua Tree go (sort of changing the T/S subject just for a wee moment...)...yes, there are about 700 well protected sport climbs at j tree....I like to share info and have on forums and alot on mtn. project....I don't withhold info for up-coming books sales, and I am working on a sport guide which I'd like to finish 2012/2013 season (we all know how that goes.......)....sometimes I am tight-lipped for other reasons; ....bolts and sport climbs almost always create controversy in the climbing world and with Gov. agencies;......being a local hopeful and new route kinda-guy, this be a pot I don't often like to stir, especially after recient internet chatter and banter about the shinannigans that went down in a wilderness area where climbers didn't represent themselves favorably. Joshua tree is my home and a place where there is still so much wildnerness that is almost unexplored for the most part. Controversies and bad press with climbers is ammo and fodder for more gov. rules and regs.........so I often choose not to participate in such discussions,....not out of possible book sales, elitism, or snobbery, but for reasons that it's often best not to open pandora's box and keep our live's as simple, positive, and carefree as we can in a world that isn't so simple, positive, and carefree. Thanks for the thoughts, Tony, and if you come to the Gordofest next weekend, you can trade opinions with Murf in person....(hope he has had his coffee....);....I often do;.....Murf does know alot,...but he doesn't know everything;...only Bill Russell, Chuck Chongo, Dick Cilley, and Tucker Tech know everything....(just ask them so, and they will tell you .....get all four of them together an we could solve global warming, world peace, the price of gas, and pink slime.....)..When you are done talking about climbing with Murf, Dr. F and TGT want to talk with you about politics...(At 57 years old, I'm more concerned with getting my kids ready and off to school, the senior menu at Dennys, liver spots and a heavy bowell movement ....that's my focus..) ....climb on........now back to Tahquitz/Suicide......

Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 14, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
i appreciate that, todd, very, very much. i don't go to josh for sport climbing, but i do think it's important to direct people to it--the american climbers fresh out of their gyms and the euros who are used to bolting which is much more closely spaced. these are the people having the accidents--or sometimes they're just people who come to josh and go away disappointed, without climbing much. if locals want to do something about that, you might consider some sort of "hosting" network. it could even grow out of the climber's coffees.

as i pointed out on other threads, i think gaines's new guide lists only half a dozen routes suitable for most beginning leaders in sport climbing, and if you go through the mountain project listing for josh and set it for "sport climbs", you'll find that just about every one of those that comes through is in fact labeled a "trad" climb. if you've made some efforts here, i haven't come across them, and sorry if i got the wrong idea. i'm trying to stand up for beginners, and i hope the oldtimers try to understand why they're frustrated. the climbing scene has changed--it seems to do that every few years--and i think it's important to adapt to changes.

all i know about dick cilley is that he knows everything there is to know about italian literature. if murf and i wind up at the same party, we might wind up exchanging more than opinions, so i'll stay home, but the offer i made through russ about roof work still stands.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
at I'm curious about is there a particular route the collective hasn't done yet or know of anyone doing? One that jumps to mind for me is the Frightful Variation 11d. to the right of Angels Fright. I'm sure there is more to the name then what I remember, but it's in the Wilt's guide.
-----

Frightful Fright. Frightful Variation is the easy route to the left of Angels


It does get done, I've seen parties on it at least a few times over the years. At least one of them finished it and seemed quite relieved to get to Lunch Ledge.

I've only run into one party ever that finished Big Daddy, Little Momma and Upside Down Cake up on the summit block.

They thought both were significantly harder than the old book rating.

Those three certainly don't get much traffic.
blr

climber
socal
Apr 14, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
16 out of 20, 18 if you count hangdogs and TRís.

Ksolem: I distinctly remember that gear problem on Red Rain - a grey TCU and micronut being pulled straight out of that shallow flare, with a bad fall trajectory if they ripÖ scary.

A few more good ones I donít think Iíve seen mentioned:
-Double Exposure
-Walk the Plank
-Manwich

How about Chisholm Trail?

Suicide is probably my favorite crag to climb at. Between the quality of rock, the interesting features, the history, and the beautiful setting, it just doesnít get any better.
People seem to be especially friendly and helpful up there too. I know Clark Jacobs always seems happy to give good beta and recommendationsÖ and wonít sandbag you either.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 14, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
The Frightful Fright was one of the last old aid routes left at Tahquitz when I caught wind of it sometime in the last 70s. Seems like we did most everything in that area that was natural and obvious including a direct finish to Blankity Blank. Then I went up and took a close look at Frightful Fright with Eric E. We both thought it would go but - it was just a short but clearly grim section on (I think) the first pitch. But the thin crack was plugged up with some old fixed gear so we had to spend that first exploratory dicking around hammering and cleaning stuff to free up the finger locks and I remember relocating one of the pins so the crux was well protected. I went back up there with Mike Lechlinski and we both did it right off but it felt hard.

Some years later I saw that it was rated 5.11d and always wondered who repeated it how they ever arrived at that rating.

Hey John:

It's rated 5.11d in the guidebook, and according to my records "FFA John Long and Mike Lechlinski, 1978", so I guess the rating came from you guys, although we all know Mike was a notorious sandbagger!

My recollection of the route is that every pitch deserves an "R" rating. The first pitch has some largely unprotected 5.10 face climbing up to the belay ledge shared with Human Fright.

The second pitch begins with unprotected, 5.10 face climbing, up to the crux: a crimpy thin crack/face section (5.12-) protected soley by an old, rusty pin (a knifeblade I believe) which, if it were to pull, would send you on a gigantic, slab-splashing, factor two fall.

The third pitch has 5.10 face climbing at ankle-breaking distance above a ledge, then you clip a vintage Royal Robbins bolt (placed in 1953 on Royal's A2 FA) to protect the final moves up to Lunch Ledge.

It never gets done 'cause it's too f*ing scary! Frightful Fright is an appropriate name.

In 1978 it ranked right up there with the most serious and difficult climbs for the time. It never acheived classic status 'cause the rock quality is a pit poor on pitch 2.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 14, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
PS: And the 5.11d rating for Race with the Devil is just silly talk. That's a 5.12 start if ever there was one and a normal 5.11 leader would sh#t a cinder block trying to on sight this one. I remember leading this right after Tony did it and thinking I was basically soloing the first pitch.

You're right about that one. It was probably right around 1990 when Too Strong talked me into doing that first pitch. He assured me that I would be fine. If I fell before the bolt he would simply catch me. If I fell after the bolt he would run down through the talus, and stop me at the bolt. For some reason I believed him. After that pitch I was cooked so he led the second.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 14, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
Brother Gaines wrote: The second pitch begins with unprotected, 5.10 face climbing, up to the crux: a crimpy thin crack/face section (5.12-) protected soley by an old, rusty pin (a knifeblade I believe) which, if it were to pull, would send you on a gigantic, slab-splashing, factor two fall.


Hmmmmm. I only remember thinking, "This feels real." But we had been climbing up there a lot for going on seven or eight years by then and you know how it goes after a while - anything under about 10c you just motor over and keep the sac tight for the hard shite. Somebody might want to replace that rusty blade and the 1952 Robbins bolt. Then maybe it might see some traffic. Get some young piston to go up there and sort it out, Bob, and report back once it's a done thing.

JL
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
Leave the politics at home please, or on those other lame ass threads.


Randy, the only pic on masonite you ever gave me is the one of Matt and I on Hesitation. Have it by the front door and love it. It takes me back to high school and a time when we never believed we would live to an age anywhere near where we are now!
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 14, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
Awesome thread. Tip of the hat to Todd. Wish I could be there next weekend. I'll be the only one in Yosemite.

Largo, Thanks for Magical Mystery Tour and so many others.

We need Juan de Fuca on this thread:
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 15, 2012 - 12:07am PT
Couldn't find my red guide. I had to go through the '93 Vogel/Gaines book and ink them.

Tahquitz-129
Suicide- 203

I did realize there are a bunch of newer ones I could still do in the 5.8-5.10 range.

Derrell??? I know you have me beat and Bobbie G., probably tops.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2012 - 12:37am PT
332 for Evans.....sheeet...;....what was I doing;...sleeping at the wheel?.........I need to get busy;.......it's gonna be a long summer;......I hang my head in shame;....I'm a n00b, an upstart, a sprout, and a noobie........Evans is the bull and the Beast;..the hawk and the Ghost...
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 15, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
That isn't all Evans is... ooops. Gordo, you are a slacker!!! DE and I probably are the hardest to top for numbers at Suicide. He and I hooked up a couple of years pretty routinely to ferret out any and everything. Great times.

Kris, you probably caught it, but it is Red Rain (Peter Gabriel), not Purple Rain (Prince). Evans just about killed me over that one. I momentarily spaced when talking to someone after we did it (DE brainchild and lead) and used the Purple name. That somehow then got propagated, much to DE's disgust - he just about gave me a new set of ears. Speaking of Red Rain, you people must not be seeing the bomber nut right after joining the Cross. Also the bomber nut that signifies no more possibility of gear ripping when doing the Cross P1 sans pin. Right over the small roof with the killer stance under it. #4 old style rock keyholed (so won't pull), so good the wire would need to break - literally.

If you could only take one wired nut for the most Suicide routes, what size? #4 old style rock. Fits the Cross P1, fits the Ishi flake P1, first nut in the start of the Caliente arch (by then it better be bomber), just to name a few of the placements. Now is that minutia or what?

Bolts have been added to the Cross already (which should be undone), 2 of them in the upper dihedral. I remember a pretty hilarious conversation between Powell and JL one time when discussing the standup move at the top of the dihedral (prior to bolts obviously). Maybe you had to hear it to appreciate it - but if you know KP and JL you should be able to hear it. Something like:
KP: Dicey standup. What if you fell off there?
JL: You don't fall there.
KP: But what if you went over backwards?
JL: You don't even think about falling there.
KP: But what if you (JL interruts): Ho Man, you JUST DON'T.

Picante is pretty darn good, as per JL. A little on the run side but so good. Almost saw a dinosaur rumble at the base of that one. Man, KP and I were fearing for our lives, afraid we might become collateral damage. The south face has to be the highest concentration of good routes at Suicide. Hades, Knockin', Disco, Picante, Hell's Angel, Archangel, Cruxifiction (12a, sandbag at less), and on and on. All close together, all superb.

Craig, I'd have to take the time to count routes. That sounds like work.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 15, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
I remember climbing on the South Face with Henny once, trying to figure out where a route called the Boomerang supposedly went. Someone had talked a load of sh#t about it being a great new route and something we HAD to do and we ended up looping all around left and right and down and up, not ever sure if we were on the route or not and when we got to the top Henny goes, "What was that we just did," and I said, "I have no idea."

Another time I was talking about a Rubidoux goat sighting up by my Etude, but Henny wasn't going for it. We'd smuggled said goat up there in the bed of Richard's El Camino, but no one believed that part either.

Speaking of the goat, one time down by the lower parking lot at Rubidoux, Richard H. lassooed the thing with a bight of perlon and it dragged him all the way to Turtle Dome. We kept trying to get Bobby to believe that's just how it happened, claiming we had photos and so forth - but no cigar.

I remember seeing Craig F. up by Joe Brown boulder when he was like, 11 or 12. Guy had promise and even back then he had the superhuman strength and suave demeanor that would later lead us to call him the "tall, sleek Newfy." As in Newfoundland. I believe Craig's ancestors were from that Godforsaken land. But anyway, back in the day, when Craig was just 11 or so, Richard claimed he was "so skinny he could bivouac inside the barrel of a blowgun."

And man, that's skinny.

JL
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 15, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
Funny that spicy (Picante) has become the adjective du jour for runout climbs.

Unlike spicy food, most don't prefer spicy climbing! LOL
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 15, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
Speaking of Red Rain, you people must not be seeing the bomber nut right after joining the Cross.

I know that #4 stopper, above the little roof. For me, that's the pro for stepping up through the little roof and finishing the pitch. Coming up the Cross, with your rope running back that way, there is enough good gear between where the pin was and the nut to which you refer. I wouldn't care to just run it from where the pin was up to that nut, but that's just me.

Coming up the Rain side that nut is your first good piece after the bolt. I guess that's why I only led that one once. It's fun to TR it after doing the Cross P1.

My friend Charlie Crist was going for Iron Cross one day. He got the pin clipped and slipped. Out it came. He ping ponged down into that chimney-slot behind the tower there. Messed up a nice shirt but otherwise okay...

Purple Rain? Red Rain? The book says you guys did that in 86. When did the "So" album come out? Oh well, I'm a Prince fan anyway. That Brit always came off kind of ponderous to me.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 15, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
Uhhhm... John, those goat stories...

One would have to ask DE when "So" came out. I obviously wasn't into it enough to keep the names straight.

Speaking of P2 on the Cross and that standup move. Once the move was done, a bolt was clipped and a 10b sequence followed. Prior the added bolts the nearest gear below that was small wires (RPs) a ways down. When we were replacing bolts I had the pleasure of doing that one. I stuck a pin under it, and tapped it once to get it seated for the removal. That was all it took, the bolt was out. By all appearances it had been completely broken in the hole for a very long time. I just about came unglued, started yelling at Powell, "Did you see THAT???, Did you see THAT???". It was always such a relief to clip that bolt with those RPs down there. Little did we know the bolt was utter garabage. What a hideous place that would have been for a bolt failure.

Yikes Kris. Ping-ponging behind that flake on the IC. Lucky.

Speaking of big falls and lucky (I've mentioned these before), I've twice seen someone fall from the P2 traverse on Sundance, and hit the ledge because of poor hip belays. And both of those guys left under their own power. How they didn't get skewered by the log, at a minimum, is beyond me. Bobby also fell off there and was dropped by his belayer. The guy did catch him right above the ledge though. I could stand on the ledge and touch him with him reaching down, thats how far from the ledge he was. Don't know what it was about that traverse and hip belays.

I always thought John did a good job of not drilling one last bolt on Picante. The moves going towards The Miscalc aren't real hard, but not very easy either. And by then it would be pretty sizable. The way it ended up was really good. Consistent.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 15, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
Flakes-STH-Flakes-The Price of Fear is a great linkup. Batcrack-Crucifix-Field of Dreams is a step up from that.

Thanks for the lowdown Murf. Always heard The Flakes was good but that those linkups were even better. Didn't get up to Idyllwild at all last year, gotta remedy that this year.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 15, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
Scanned the guide and came up with a paltry 291. All this talk has me re-psyched to head up there. There a number of moderates still to be ticked.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 15, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
The Manx just tweeted me and said he has 584, combined.

Dr. F sez:
The Newf_proof_roof is not, AKA Paisano Overhang

That's what I heard.....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 15, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
I always thought John did a good job of not drilling one last bolt on Picante. The moves going towards The Miscalc aren't real hard, but not very easy either. And by then it would be pretty sizable. The way it ended up was really good. Consistent.


The bigger run out was the one I didn't do but almost did till DB who was belaying said it was absurd - a groundfall from about 50 feet up - so I slapped in the bolt and came down and as I remember, Henny and I took turns putting the rest of the bolts in on the lead.

Then I went back a few years later and Henny had yanked all the holds off the thing and it felt like mid 5.12.

Wonder if it ever gets done these days??

JL
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Apr 15, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
"Top 20" ???? gimme a break! there's stack-loads of GREAT climbs in Idyllwild. Hands down, one of my very favorite places to climb. Never had a bad day up there.....

I can't claim to have climbed every one of those on T.G.'s list. Someday I'll finish Valhalla. Someday I'll go back and lead Insomnia. Someday I'll nail that crux on The Vampire. Someday I'll find the courage to get up on The Green Arch. Who knows.....

Paisano Overhang? I'll be training for that one this summer in Vedauwoo.

here's a couple random photos from a prior lifetime....





dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 15, 2012 - 08:42pm PT
Darrell, those were fun times ferreting out the obscure.
I knew I was up there as it was a major goal for more than a few years.

There were a couple I wasn't totally sure about (and didn't ink). One was called Mike and Larry's Excellant Adventure 5.10c. It's below the Sunshine face. Did we do that one?


Are you coming to the party?
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 15, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
There might be someone there you know.


henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:37am PT
DE, I don't think you and I did Mike and Larry's together. I recall doing that (and the others right by it) with KP and JW.

Then I went back a few years later and Henny had yanked all the holds off the thing and it felt like mid 5.12.

Wonder if it ever gets done these days??
Yeah, right. It took a bigger boy than me to eliminate a couple of the holds. No names mentioned.

People are missing a good route if they don't do it. But I have a feeling it isn't real popular. One has to manage getting to the first bolt without augering, something that always seems to give me pause. JW drilled the first bolt a weekend or two before JL and I hooked up on it. JW climbed out there in his tennis shoes, drilled the bolt, and then down-climbed. Based on that when I went to lead it, I was like "wtf?, JW did this in his tennis shoes." The crux run on Picante is so good, micro-edging with some penalty if one knuckleheads it. I remember taking about 10 mins after the crux to get it sucked up enough to drill the bolt where it was supposed to go. There was a smaller stance about a body length higher that had an obviously tricky move to get on it, and I was no longer interested in pitching. I mentioned wanting to drill and JL immediately started goading me on. "You want to do WHAT??? You have to stand up, you have no choice" Of course it turned out way better for having stood up. Ah yes, good old peer pressure. For whatever the reason, possibly because it was such a good time putting it up, that route is still one of my favorites on the south face.

John, I had totally forgotten that a few pictures were taken that day. Remember this? Drilling the bolt after the crux.

can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
Toad, that's a pretty big claim you're making. Tony might have posted high numbers, but my goodness look at the competition.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
Nice pic, D.

See you at Todd's crib this weekend. Ricky is flying in from Denver on Friday and we're bouldering at Rubidoux on Friday. Might be fun.

BTW, we're thinking of doing a sesh on Sat. at the Integraton. Remember that contraption?

They say:

The Integratron is the creation of George Van Tassel, and is based on the design of Mosesí Tabernacle, the writings of Nikola Tesla and telepathic directions from extraterrestrials. This one-of-a-kind building is a 38-foot high, 55-foot diameter, non-metallic structure originally designed by Van Tassel as a rejuvenation and time machine. Today, it is the only all-wood, acoustically perfect sound chamber in the U.S.

Apparently, they were missing a key part, so the time traveling aspect never worked and Van Tassel went and died. Then they recently found the missing piece in the garage of Van Tassel's widow, and the rig went on line last week. They stuck the widow's beagle in the machine and it supposedly vanished before their very eyes, but was later picked up wandering out by Lost Pencil.

Anyhow, Ricky and I are thinking about going to check the thing out. I think you have to ply the widow with hard drink to get in. Or something.

JL
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
Yeah, Tony made his mark. KP and I talked to him the day he put up Gates. He said he had been pulling down so hard he started bleeding under the fingernails. Wow.

okay, just to satisfy Craig - based on the 2001 guide.
Many people are ahead of me at the big stone. I was too lazy and would usually opt for the shorter hike. In fact, only went to both stones for routes in a single day twice.

Tahquitz: 99
Suicide: 303

And yeah, these kinds of conversations do seem a little vain, but people seem to want to play.

Edit: Happy Craig?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Looking at the revised list, 136 FA's by Brother Bob is impressive. That represents a lot of time, effort, and money.

OK, the race is on. See your 5 and raise you a couple.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
One hasn't experienced the best Idyllwild has to offer until they've done the Source. Or maybe Kill Them All (sorry Donny). And then there's Jigsaw, MP won't let you enter multiple bombs, dang it.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 16, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Just went through the old book. Clean leads only, 71 on Tahquitz & 68 on Suicide for 139. I expected more but that's an honest count.

Bob's number of FA's blows my mind. A few of those are included in my list.

Thanks Bob!
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Apr 16, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
11 for me.....

Munge - Coffin Nail is fun. Even better....Super Pooper. That one got my attention in a few spots! When are you coming down to SoCal? Open Book or Whodunnit calls! Next on my list: Sundance
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
The Source got it's name because it was the source for all that crap funneling down into the route. I thought it was a junker and never repeated it.

Another cool thing we used to do circa 1978 or so was to go to specific areas and do all the routes. Like everything on Weeping Wall, or the Buttress of Cracks, or on the Mickey Mantle area, or everything right of Etude, and so forth. That was a blast.

And how about a super obscure route (only 15 feet long), that being the mantle off the ledge on the Hernia. That one is grim hard and dangerous. And worthless.

JL
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
The 100 plus list has to be a lot longer than most would expect.

Two of my old time partners, Dean Tower and Ed Gardner for sure.

Others that you'd see up there almost every weekend.

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
Bocu Maru is actually another route that starts up and left of Hernia Direct. That's got some hard crimping off the ledge and I did the 2nd of the route with, of all people, Jim Donini, who was an early climbing partner of Bud Couch's and who still used to frequent the place early on.

The mantle I'm talking about was originally supposed to be part of Arcy Farcy, which ends on the Hernia ledge where you either cut right over into the gully, or move up and left to the bolt and the 10a move and the slab up to the big pine tree ledge above. The mantle in question (Greg Bender drilled the bolt) cranks right off that ledge via a 5.12 sequence and continues above with an ankle breaker ledge fall. Stupid and hard.

JL
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 16, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
Donini on slab???
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
It might be possible to convince us that the goat tales are true - with a little work. And as for the beagle travelling time and showing up out by the Lost Pencil, well, ok, maybe.

What Kris said. There's a limit to how gullible we are.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 16, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
What about the Manx???
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
2001 guide: 212 + 313 = 525 total. Sheesh, ya gotta watch everybody around here like a hawk.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 16, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Sheesh, ya gotta watch everybody around here like a hawk.

Some would say a Chicken Hawk.

And how about a super obscure route (only 15 feet long), that being the mantle off the ledge on the Hernia. That one is grim hard and dangerous. And worthless.

WHAT! That thing is a Classic.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 16, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
DH you didn't answer my question.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 16, 2012 - 07:19pm PT
As a rookie east coast puss- I haveonly done few lines;mostly around '88

Turbo Flange /Edge os
Valhalla
Playin' with the direct finsh os
Caliente os
Rebolting
Devil os

Nice rock
gonamok

climber
dont make me come over there
Apr 16, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
all but the last 3, lol.

oh, and putting in a sport climbing area at J Tree for that poor neglected demographic who are too impatient, frightened or lame to learn to climb the rock on its own terms is the worst idea Ive ever heard.

96 different routes on big and small stones, but some of the good ones ive done 5 or 6 times
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
According to the Fish, 584 for the Manx. Therein lies the problem.

Unless Brother Bob or the Sketchy one can tell us the total has gone from 525 to 584 by now (which it may have), somebody is going to have to call out the Fish. Just sayin'.

DE, pretty unlikely right now. Maybe a chance for Sunday, but even that's up in the air.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 16, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
OK, sorry to hear that.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 16, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
who did the first f-s of Insomnia?

dano, so far as i know.

BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
OK, added them up

I've done

Tahquitz 172
Suicide 257

total 429
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
Are there any left?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:30pm PT
Those kinds of numbers are what I fully expected to see from Bob. I think we just might have us a winner (so to speak).

Good deal, Bob.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:32pm PT
Ok... the Manx thing was just to get your GOAT.... I'm still totaling mine up.... got to be close to 40 or so.
Hummerchine

Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
Apr 16, 2012 - 11:55pm PT
I was gonna mention Wet Dreams...but "Friend" beat me to it...
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Apr 17, 2012 - 12:02am PT
Nice Bob, I knew you were the man up there!!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 17, 2012 - 01:41am PT
Dr.F,

I hear you about the knob on Insomnia. That's well documented and seems like a weird thing to do. I didn't know about any flake on Wangerbanger. But I am really curious as to your comment about Tony chipping in the Needles.

Care to offer some specifics since you made the accusation?

froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 17, 2012 - 02:09am PT
Don't think it belongs in the "top 20", but I didn't see Hair Lip mentioned so I'll toss it into the fray - love that climb - crux move is super fun.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 17, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
Tony chipped holds on a route at the Needles that is the same as the Rappel line from the top!!!
I forgot the dome,

But you can see that they were chipped, they found a chisel at the bottom, and it was Tony's FA.

Someone else must know the details better than me.
Please post up.

We would speculate that the reason his Hardest Route on the Planet was called "The Grand Illusion",
Maybe it would be the hardest route if he actually did it all free, but it was just a grand illusion.

Those are some serious fighting words coming from you. You can't name the route? They found a chisel at the base? Who would be "who?"

I'm kind of an expert on that area, and I am having a hard tome thinking of any route Tony did which goes up a rap line.

Come on man. I've climbed Scirocco, Titanic (followed EE) Pyromaniac (folowed TS) and as many other Yaniro routes in Needles as I can think of. You know how the chiselled hold at Suicide on Man Who Fell to Earth just jumps out at you when you touch it?? There is nothing like that on any of Tony Needles routes which I have done.

Where do you get this sh*t??
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Apr 17, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
Edit: edited!

I've only done a handful of easy routes on Tahquitz, guiding. Full giggle fest stuff- Angel's Fright, Fingertrip, Jensen's(did it make that damn algorhythm list, can't remember now that you guys are fighting about Enduro).
I did do the Vampire. Drove all the way back from AZ the next weekend after the guiding gig was up, just to do that route.
It was worth it.
If I never climb there again i'd be stoked with my tick list....
But I'm jonesin'!!!
I'll be bock.



eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Apr 17, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
I gotta say, I'm impressed by everyones' memories about these climbs (at least the folks around my age). Sheesh, am I the only one who only has cliff notes recollections? Is it worse that I thought? Don't answer that.

Anyhow, since I don't otherwise have much to contribute, and having (probably) done 17 or 18 of them, I thought I would share my selective cliff notes (it's actually everything I remember).

2. Angel's Fright 5.5. First climb at Tahquitz, and first non-boulder (Woodson) climb. Remember stuffing my whole arm in the crack at the belay in case my anchors gave).
3. Left Ski Track 5.6. As with many of my Tahquitz ascents, did it with Phantom X. Cool right to left 5.6 move (if I'm actually remembering Right Ski Tracks, please don't comment about it (I think it is the other one)).
6. Traitor Horn 5.8. Don't you like, mantle a horn or something? And don't you have to remember not to get faked out by the fake horn?
7. Open Book 5.9. West face...sunny. Did it probably more than any other Tahquitz climb (4-5 times?). First free solo. Crack and lie-back.
9. Whodunit 5.9
10. Consolation 5.9
11. El Camino Real 5.10a
Aren't these all on the East side where it's cold in the morning? Seem to remember doing one of them with Bruce Adams circa 1972.
14. Etude 5.11a. Did it once with Dave Hersey and I swear we had about 9 carabiners between us. Seems like I did this one at least 4 or 5 times or more.
17. Insomnia 5.11b. Have some negative visceral reactions to this one because I couldn't on-site it, even though this is my kind of climbing. Remember knowing about for a long time before trying it. Probably did it on my second attempt, but not positive.
18. Green Arch 5.11c. My best day at Tahquitz. Followed George Manson on this after leading rhe Edge.





mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:15am PT
Just because a chisel was found at the base, doesn't mean Tony chipped the holds. Anyone witness it first hand? Proof this....time machine bitches!

Now, a full on abortion of chipping and bolting over old Dad routes.....Chiquito Dome! Thanks A&D.....SoCal chipping queens.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 18, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
I'm an ass for calling you out for throwing down a serious accusation while saying at the same time you can't even name the formation??

Maybe I take this stuff too seriously, but in my eyes that was a pretty irresponsible thing to do. If you can prove this stuff that's different, but to just throw that out here like a turd in the punch bowl, about a climber we all know, is a bit much.

I'm sorry to be part of turning this otherwise very interesting thread into an argument. Seems to be the way it goes with Dr.F these days...

Carry on - I'm out.

Another very fun BG route is The Incision, right there by the old TS route Magical Mystery Tour. Also those two routes he did on the shady side of the Maiden Buttress, one is called Iron Maiden, are good hard slab pitches on superb rock.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Apr 18, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
aint no way Yaniro chiseled routes. uh uh. total bullshitt.

Really?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
the stonedmasters got some bad weed if thats what they think
My, now that's a broad generalization in more ways than one.


Bob, I think you should bump the rating up a letter on The Crucifiction, seems marginally harder nowadays than it was right after you put it up. Or maybe I'm just old, not sure. You picked a plum with that one. Like all the non-name routes over there I wonder how much it gets done. People are missing a good one if they haven't done it.
Keith Leaman

Trad climber
Seattle
Apr 18, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
Why does Newf_Proof_Roof sound sooo familiar? ;-)

Dang! Cant believe there are that many routes at Idyllwild now. I only climbed there sporadically for about 8 years from mid '60s to the early '70s. My old guide shows only 83 routes at Tahquitz (I've done 65), and 114 at suicide (did 61). That gives me a total of 126. Yahoo! All with Vibram soled shoes (didn't own RDs, PAs or EBs). No chalk bag, smooth soles, sticky rubber or cams and we made most of our own nuts. Do I get extra credit old school bonus points?? HA HA.

Really enjoyed going back there once in 2001 for a reunion with old friends. Have fun at the Gordon's everyone!!
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
Bob, I think you should bump the rating up a letter on The Crucifiction, seems marginally harder nowadays than it was right after you put it up. Or maybe I'm just old, not sure. You picked a plum with that one. Like all the non-name routes over there I wonder how much it gets done. People are missing a good one if they haven't done it.

Thanks Darrell.

What do you think it should be rated, 12a? 12b?
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 18, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
aint no way Yaniro chiseled routes. uh uh. total bullshitt.

A bit off topic, but, Leslie Gulch, City of Rocks (dolphin), Castle Rocks (redrum)...

Ever see that photo of Wolfgang GŁllich at the City of Rocks on a route on the Chocolate Rocks? Perfect drilled pocket...(unkown if that was a TY creation, but, its near some other stuff...). Anyhoo, its in the Hepp biography.
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 18, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
I also think that Field of Dreams is harder than rated in the guide. Harder than any other slab I've tried to lead. I don't search out slab so I don't have a huge amount of milage on harder slab, but I don't avoid it. I'd call that pitch 5.12a. I've redpointed Stairway to Heaven, but not Field of Dreams.

According to the guidebook on Magical Mystery Tour there are two pitons in the crux pitch. Neither of them were there when I did that route. I managed to onsight MMT without tons of trouble (11c), so that's another argument that Field of Dreams is harder than in the guide IMO. I still need to go back and RP Field of Dreams sometime. That pitch is spectacularly blank!

Josh
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
Bob, I think calling it 12a would suffice, probably what I would give it. If it's still a little stout so be it, at least it's the right number. An exact science it's not. All I know is I've been over there recently a few times with some good slab climbers. Common consensus was it's not 11d, it's harder. Brilliant climbing up that polished runnel, hoping to pull that knob down to you.

Gaaack. Just looked at the guide to see what else is 12b. Compared to The Ghost and Burning Down the House, maybe it should go the other way. That Ghost thing is desperate, and BDTH has way more hard(er) climbing on it and is run. Yeap, 12a would be the best choice.

One of the original pins on The Magical Mystery Tour used to be over to the left where the guide shows the original route going. After the FFA I think Matt went back and did something more direct but I don't know specifically what. Kind of moot now, but it would be interesting to know what Matt did before things settled into their current state.

All with Vibram soled shoes (didn't own RDs, PAs or EBs). No chalk bag, smooth soles, sticky rubber or cams and we made most of our own nuts. Do I get extra credit old school bonus points?
Heck yes. And making (or I should say using) your own nuts counts for double bonus points.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
I also think that Field of Dreams is harder than rated in the guide. Harder than any other slab I've tried to lead. I don't search out slab so I don't have a huge amount of milage on harder slab, but I don't avoid it. I'd call that pitch 5.12a. I've redpointed Stairway to Heaven, but not Field of Dreams.

Thanks Josh:

I've gotten feedback from a number of people that have done Field of Dreams and that is the consensus (5.11d/12a), so I'll up-rate that one in the next guide.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
RE: Crucifiction

Bob, I think calling it 12a would suffice, probably what I would give it. If it's still a little stout so be it, at least it's the right number. An exact science it's not. All I know is I've been over there recently a few times with some good slab climbers. Common consensus was it's not 11d, it's harder. Brilliant climbing up that polished runnel, hoping to pull that knob down to you.


12a it is!

It's nice to get feedback on ratings...I only did that route once, on the FA, and you know how that goes Darrell, you're so psyched to just climb it that it's difficult to pin a rating on it later.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
One of the original pins on The Magical Mystery Tour used to be over to the left where the guide shows the original route going. After the FFA I think Matt went back and did something more direct but I don't know specifically what. Kind of moot now, but it would be interesting to know what Matt did before things settled into their current state.


On pitch 2, where the original route moved left, I added a bolt under the roof for a more direct (and logical) line back in 1994 (It's on the topo and noted in the text in the 2001 guide) which made a lot more sense since the original route basically traversed all the way left, off the slab and into a corner before moving back right. It's only 11a over the little roof, so maybe Matt went back up there and did it without any pro, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.


As far as fixed pins go on Tahquitz....they come and go, and usually they can't be relied upon for more than a season or two, as freezing and thawing loosens them up pretty quick, and they need to be re-hammered. After a few years they can usually just be plucked out by hand.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
This is kind of interesting, rating revision suggestions. Might be somewhat useful to the guidebook authors.

The Ghost. Can you say sandbag, dumptrucks full. + one letter, probably 2.

Double Exposure Direct, Terry Ayers underrate. + one letter at least.

The Bookworm, just a suggestion, remove the last sentence from the 2001 guide. Not needed. It is what it is, and nobody is likely to argue much with the given rating.

Yes Bob, often it seems one picks a rating and hopefully it's close. Nitpicking ratings is usually a pointless exercise since there are so many variables. Not worth it unless it seems obviously off.

If ratings are to serve a useful purpose they need to be stout, haha. Seriously though, the more people who make suggestions the better if ratings are to be meaningful. While others would argue that it doesn't matter much. Whatever.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
On pitch 2, where the original route moved left, I added a bolt under the roof for a more direct (and logical) line back in 1994 (It's on the topo and noted in the text in the 2001 guide) which made a lot more sense since the original route basically traversed all the way left, off the slab and into a corner before moving back right. It's only 11a over the little roof, so maybe Matt went back up there and did it without any pro, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.
Agreed. Better line going direct, that jog was bogus. We're talking hearsay from me now, since I wasn't there when Matt supposedly went back. I heard that he had somehow gotten into the Incision seam much ealier, that was part of the reason for returning - the seam. I haven't been back since repeating it once prior to the Incision, so I don't recall clearly what the story is up there. The guide shows bolts there. If using pins or being bold, could it have been done without bolts? Thoughts from those in the know? This I know though, Matt could be flat out scary bad-azz when he wanted to.

Being handed the rack (his) from Matt for a crack pitch.
Us: "There's only 3 nuts on this rack Matt, and they look like the wrong size."
Matt: "I guess you'll need to conserve and hope to find somewhere they fit."

I suspect more than a few of us experienced that nightmare.

Edit: Thinking about it a little more - Bob, when you did the Incision were there any bolts already on the seam? I need to see if KP remembers anything about the Cox bit. - Fixed pins are usually bogus unless they're an absolute weld job, as you alluded to.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
Bob, when you did the Incision were there any bolts already on the seam?

None. Actually The Incision and Pitch 2 of Magical Mystery Tour are two independent lines that meet at the original bolt belay for Magical Mystery Tour at the end of pitch 2.

As Murf pointed out to me after he did The Incision, the topo in the 2001 book is a little off.

a better description would be:

The Incision 5.11b

From the 3-bolt belay shared with Edgehogs climb up to the first bolt for Edgehogs, them climb the face up and left past a bolt up to a small overlap. Above this climb past 3 bolts on a slab up to another small overhang, above this follow a left-diagonalling thin seam (with a pin and then a bolt, crux 5.11-) up to the bolt belay shared with Magical Mystery Tour.
Brian

climber
California
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
Bob, Josh, et al.,

On the topic of the Bat Crack/Crucifix/Field of Dream linkup, what's your thinking on the Crucifix (not Crucifixion, which Henny is addressing)?

I'm perfectly happy to be told I'm getting weak and old, but the traverse from the top of the Crucifix to the belay at the base of Field of Dreams felt incredibly difficult, certainly harder than the 11b rating.

Possible explanations: (1) I'm weak; (2) I'm stoopid (and couldn't read the route); (3) Bob is a sandbagger (cause he's good, not cause he's malicious); (4) maybe it actually is harder.

I'm pretty convinced it is a combination of (1) and (2), but in the spirit of talking about my favorite local crag, I figured I'd sound out other opinions.

Brian

PS--As I've said on other threads: many thanks to Bob for authoring so many great routes.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
just to toss some crap o the fire-

Caliente is great
Rebolting sucks
Playin' is way better
Devil is 11+

BG rules

you remember BG, mallery, Callaghan and me in the 80's ?
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
Hi Brian;

When I go back on some of these routes I put up 15 or 20 years ago when I was super strong, I often think it's underrated...but it's probably because I'm getting old and weak too!

With mountainproject and sites where people can vote, ratings have become more of a general consensus and a democratic process, rather than just going by what one person (the guy who did the FA) says, and I'm all for that. As a guidebook author, I would, however, defer more heavily to someone like Darrel Hensel who climbs at the highest level and who really understands the grading of hard slab climbs.

I just think we need to compare ratings to something everyone agrees upon as a standard, as a sort of callibration. Like the Open Book being 5.9.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
you remember BG, mallery, Callaghan and me in the 80's ?

Is that John Strand, the slab master??
Brian

climber
California
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
Good point about consensus Bob. I would take some solace in the 11c rating of Crucifix on Mountain Project, except that there are only 4 votes and one of them is my own 11+!

Oh well. The numbers are only a guideline; the main point is that that linkup is so, so good. We're heading out next Thursday and I'm going to try to gently direct my mates back in that direction so I can have another go at it!

Brian
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
11c rating of Crucifix

Hi Brian:

The feedback I've gotten from a lot of people is that Crucifix is 5.11c and Field of Dreams 5.11d
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:19pm PT
Brother Gaines: Remember that route we did called Bukatude with that impossibly hard start that we fiddled with for hours before we ever got it? And later, the route, Nirvana. That had some fine climbing on it. Wonder if those routes ever get done. I'e always wanted to do Moondance as well and never have.

And doing those routes with you on the South Face, Archangel and Crucifix and Hell's Angel, though I can only remember the hard bit of Archangel at the bottom and the moving left up higher, and the other two routes are a blank in my head. Maybe I'm dreaming . . .

JL
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
Good stuff.

I need to find out if I can, what, and if, Cox did up there. Doesn't sound like he got into the seam early based on BG's comments. Unfortunately it's so long ago probably no one remembers anymore.

Rebolting sucks
Blasphemy!!! hehe

Playin' is way better
Than what? Anything else?

I would, however, defer more heavily to someone like Darrel Hensel
That would be a mistake. I usually guess.

The numbers are only a guideline
Yeap.

Something like MP is a good deal, where people can influence the rating (so to speak). As mentioned though, it needs people to input their opinions, and hopefully honestly. At one point when entering the routes on MP I just used what the guide had, it didn't seem worth debating. That kind of defeats the process though I guess. Although I felt entering the guide rating and then letting people comment was a good approach. Not sure if the top page rating can be changed, or if it would be worth the trouble. The consensus aspect of each page does account for that I guess. Oh well, as long as the rating is relatively close, good to go, eh?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
I think Nirvana is relatively popular.

Bukatude, uhmmm, not so much so.

Never done Moondance??? That demands immediate remedial action.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Apr 18, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
Todd, where's Mechanic's Route?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 18, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
Johnny Quest? Really? I like the route but don't think it holds a candle to Flower or Insomnia.

BTW, I've always liked Illegitimate alot. Way under appreciated route.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
Mechanics is just right of the Open Book, Tahquitz. Another good one.

We need a first-hand report of what it was like in '37 with sneakers and manila rope. I nominate Sketchy and a partner of his choosing. No procrastination, and we expect a detailed TR.

Edit - sorry, I spoke for Todd.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Apr 18, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
We need a first-hand report of what it was like in '37 with sneakers and manila rope. I nominate Sketchy and a partner of his choosing.

And I'm nominated because you think I'm that old and remember what climbing it was like back in 1937?

henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 18, 2012 - 10:20pm PT
hahaha!!!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
If you whipped off the crux of the second pitch I don't think it would matter much if the rope were Manilla or Nylon.
Gary

climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
I think Fingertip Traverse is the best 30' of 5.3 on the planet.

Fingertip is a really cool climb. It was my first multi-pitch. I was sitting at the bucket belaying RJ on the Traverse, having led the layback, when this dude pops up from below. He says he's 35' above his last piece and lost. He didn't look happy. I threw him a bight of rope and he batmanned up.

Right about that time, I hear a lot of clanging, and look over to see a guy taking a big whipper on El Camino Real.

So I'm sitting there wondering what the f*#k have I gotten myself into?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
It was my first multipitch as well back in the prehistoric days.

I didn't quite get the Fingertip concept and tried to walk the crack taking a giant swinging whipper.

The guy I was climbing with was really pissed off. He was convinced I'd ruined his brand new kernmantle rope by taking that big a fall on it.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 19, 2012 - 12:07am PT
Brother Gaines: Remember that route we did called Bukatude with that impossibly hard start that we fiddled with for hours before we ever got it? And later, the route, Nirvana. That had some fine climbing on it. Wonder if those routes ever get done. I'e always wanted to do Moondance as well and never have.


Brother John: Yes, I do remember Bukatude, but not where the name came from. Probably a reference to some thing or some place you encountered on one of your forays to Papau New Guinea, or when you crossed Borneo?

You led the FA of Bukatude in 1985. The start had a hellacious boulder problem right off the ground, and we rated the thing 5.13a. Later a hold broke off, rendering that start impossible, but I figured out a way to traverse in from the left, across a slab, at 11d, sort of resurrecting the climb at an easier grade.

At the top of the pitch is a big, loose flake, 1/2 the size of a card table, and if you're not careful you could yank it right off. As Darrell said, the Bukatude never became popular. At that time you were, shall we say, on top of your game, and I belayed you that same summer when you came very, very close to freeing that first pitch of Ishi with a big dyno off the foothold up to the base of the corner/dihedral. You latched the base of the corner, but couldn't hang it. I believe that was the year that Darrell led the whole pitch free (1985?) cranking on thin dimes where you threw the big mo.

Nirvana, on the other hand, has actually acheived some modicum of popularity, being a fine direct start to Valhalla's second pitch. Of course if you've never done Valhalla you've got to do it the standard way first, but the Nirvana direct allows you to go right into the crux on the second pitch with no rope drag, all the way up to Valhalla's pitch 2 anchor, in one long, classic lead past 11 bolts. It's a Sunshine Face classic, as is Moondance, to be sure.

Gary

climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
Apr 19, 2012 - 12:44am PT
I didn't quite get the Fingertip concept and tried to walk the crack taking a giant swinging whipper.

Ha! That took some nerve to walk that crack, TGT. Maybe I'll try that this year. :-)
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 19, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Hey Bob,

I can't remember, did I ever get a topo of the straight up continuation of Obscured By Clouds to you - "Shine On"? Put that up a couple of years ago with Mike and Ian Graham. How cool is that? Mike was on the FA of Obscured, and then many a moon later also on the variation FA. Pretty good route, things are reasonably spaced so it would more or less continue to have the feel of the climbing you have to do on Obscured. Since you're up there a bit, have you done it?

Those moves over the Obscured roof are good, eh? But don't clip that cheater Superfluous bolt.
deejay

Trad climber
AV
Apr 19, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
Mechanics Route is a much better route at 5.8 than Traitor Horn. Traitor Horn is just kind of a novelty.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 19, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
Hey Bob,

I can't remember, did I ever get a topo of the straight up continuation of Obscured By Clouds to you - "Shine On"? Put that up a couple of years ago with Mike and Ian Graham. How cool is that? Mike was on the FA of Obscured, and then many a moon later also on the variation FA. Pretty good route, things are reasonably spaced so it would more or less continue to have the feel of the climbing you have to do on Obscured. Since you're up there a bit, have you done it?

Those moves over the Obscured roof are good, eh? But don't clip that cheater Superfluous bolt.

Never got the topo, if you could send me one that would be great! A more classic finish to a classic route. I heard that if you fall off the crux of Shine On you'll go for a pretty big whipper (20 ft?) 11d? But no R rating?


The topo in the 2001 guide shows Obscured by Clouds going to the first bolt on Superfluous Bolt, since that's the way everyone seems to do it, although I'm guessing that bolt wasn't used on the original Obscured by Clouds ascent, even though Superfluous was done first?

I think it's really cool that Mike Graham went back with you for the Shine On, after doing the first ascent of Obscured by Clouds in 1974! (with Tobin Sorenson and Gib lewis) The new line deserves classic status, no doubt about it.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Apr 19, 2012 - 02:16pm PT
Mike and I discussed the Superfluous bolt. They did not use it. Maybe not show it going there because it is off-route? People can still choose to use it.

That fall size is about right. I took it a few times before we got the bolt in. I think my head was sort of jacked up dreading the obvious thin drilling coming up. One of those things were you can't drill until you're on that lousy wanna-be black knobuloid thingy. And of course the crux seemed like getting on it. One could go bigger on the following climbing but that won't happen.

If for no other reason I would give it an R just because of Obscured already having one. I know people like to require that the run difficulty be within a letter or two of the crux difficulty to get an R, but it seems whacky to me to remove the R when that climbing is shared. Obscured is spicy enough by itself.

Good rock, climbing, and location. Plus the good stuff on Obscured as a bonus. People should do it - but of course I would think that.

For now, yeah, 11d R. Consensous can sort it out.

    serious question: should 20' qualify as an R? Seems kind of a gray distance. Any longer, yes, or shorter, no. That's like, only 10' out.

Ultimatum (my vote for best on the Smooth Soles) gets an R. Routes like that are no-brainers to decide.
BG

Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
Apr 19, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
serious question: should 20' qualify as an R? Seems kind of a gray distance. Any longer, yes, or shorter, no. That's like, only 10' out.

My definition would be "an R-rated route designates a route where a fall at the crux will be disastrous, likely resulting in very serious injury or death."

Maybe that definition is a little too strict, but it gets your attention if you see it in a guidebook.

I saw a guy take a leader fall on Obscured from above the little overhang and break his ankle.

I've seen two leaders fall over 50 ft. on the Guillotine, resulting in some rather serious injuries. Guillotine gets an R rating more as warning than anything else, since if you choose to you can burrow into the chimney for some pro rather than opting to run it out up the lieback, but the lieback is far more aesthetic, and the way most leaders choose to go.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 19, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
I belayed you that same summer when you came very, very close to freeing that first pitch of Ishi with a big dyno off the foothold up to the base of the corner/dihedral. You latched the base of the corner, but couldn't hang it. I believe that was the year that Darrell led the whole pitch free (1985?) cranking on thin dimes where you threw the big mo.
-----


Yep. But by the time I worked the moves out my tips were cooked. Those moves cranking past the first 4 bolts on that initial bolt ladder were the bidness. All I had to do was come back with the sequence fresh in my mind and it was a done thing. In the meantime that dirty, low-down thieving rat Henny floats the thing and I have to like it.

I could've been a contender . . .

JL
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 19, 2012 - 07:48pm PT
Buck up Marlon!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
Gary..while you are reminiscing about fingertip , i was taking my brother up that , wearing Royal Robbins boots when Rob Muir played through , guiding some clients...I think Clark Jacobs climbed through un-roped also...? When i think about tahquitz , i always remember the sweet scent of Mt. Mahogany on my wool sweater...Lifes' simple pleasures..RJ
klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:30pm PT
craig, many years ago, i tr'ed hangover after backing off the lead 'cuz i didn't trust the fixed mank.

the mp calculus hasn't done a terribly bad job with the top 20, i guess.

i miss the long easy solos on tahquitz.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
May 3, 2012 - 09:07pm PT
I have never heard of anyone repeating Gib Lewis' lead of New Wave, the traverse into Flying Circus, which avoids the aid part of that route.

See the thread on this topic:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1690295&msg=1770517#msg1770517
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
May 3, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
I played on Hangover once. That thing is hard. I don't remember the details, but I have a vague memory of the moves being awkward? I'll have to go back and give it another try sometime...

I just got back from climbing 15 of the multipitch routes out there last Tuesday, including The Edge. It was quite devastating. I haven't felt so thrashed in a while. Good times, though. Many of them were the classic moderates, and we soloed about 3500-4000' of the climbing. There was a beautiful layer of clouds beneath us all day. It was one of my better days of climbing in a long time. It was quite pleasant to climb through the sunrise and sunset.

We had a rappel setup down Open Book/Flying Circus to save the knees/feet. I think I saw bolts for New Wave. Maybe I'll take a look at it. Hard free lines are always fun. If it's R/X like the guidebook hints, I'll probably not do it though. The line isn't aesthetic enough to warrant that kind of dangerous climbing.

Josh
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 3, 2015 - 04:56pm PT
Day dreaming about this place/tag bump. Lots of great suggestions in this thread. How much more "winter" could there be?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
Pretty dang wintry up there today...probably stay that way for a while longer. Everyone in town is hoping for a 'March Miracle'...we desperately need the precip.

I'll try to post up a recent pic asap...it's really quite beautiful right now.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 3, 2015 - 05:39pm PT
Got the first ten and number twelve. Spent a long time at the crux of traitor horn on a cold windy day. Just couldn't figure it out. Finally found the jug around the corner. My partner was pissed as he was freezing at the belay below.
Pie

Trad climber
So-Cal
Mar 3, 2015 - 07:10pm PT
Only missing 18 and 19. Aides the pirate
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 3, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
The Pirate? You Cali folks do love pin scars.
That wouldn't be a top 20 climb on the Seward Highway road cut outside of Anchorage.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
This morning was nice and clear....lots of snow on Tahquitz & above. Then it clouded over for the rest of the day.

Suicide's gonna be wetter, because of the aspect. I'll post a pic as soon as I get one.
hashbro

Trad climber
Mental Physics........
Mar 3, 2015 - 08:17pm PT











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Tar and Feathers (aka Woodpecker Crack), Suicide Rock
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 06:15am PT
Pretty dang wintry up there today...probably stay that way for a while longer. Everyone in town is hoping for a 'March Miracle'...we desperately need the precip.

I'll try to post up a recent pic asap...it's really quite beautiful right now.

Thanks for the update. And we all really need a miracle March in California. I need to get up there really soon and just wander around up there some.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 4, 2015 - 02:55pm PT
Here ya go....


Clear as a bell today...pretty warm, too...

Forecast is more of the same all week long, which means a lot of it will be going pretty quickly, but anything that's north facing is gonna be wet and cold.
Friend

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:05pm PT
Thanks for the photo Apogee! Looks chilly. get out your real camera and snap some more :)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:18pm PT
As i recall the north side of Tahquitz can serve up some stellar mixed routes. You dudes in SoCal....get down to the basement, dust off your tools and send!
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
Looks beautiful Apogee!! I've led Northeast Face West before (rock climb). Who wants to show me how this mixed stuff works on that route? I have warm gear, boots and crampons, but missing the axe pair. What do you think? Too nutty for a noob? Poor beginning route selection?

Either way, thanks for the shot Apogee!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
I seriously doubt there's much of anything up there in the way of decent ice right now...there just hasn't been enough consistent precipitation this winter, or cold temps to go along with it. Probably a lot of wet, sloppy snow, occasional soft ice patches, and lots of water running everywhere.

Of course, there's no such thing as mixed conditions being 'out of shape'. Just depends on how scrappy you like it....
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
Ah, figures Apogee. Patty and I had an invite to head to Tahoe a few weeks back to learn how to Ice climb. Of course the invite was prior to winter hitting and Ernist basically told us to not bother coming up unless we wanted to go mountain biking. So it looks like no ice for us this year.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 4, 2015 - 06:00pm PT
That's a nice shot. Taken from the N side of Tahquitz, towards the 'Palisades'?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
Holy sh!t 15x15, that looks incredible! So there IS some ice to be had. I have to say, I'm having a hard time placing that face with all the snow and ice on it.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Lassitude 33
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
The Pirate is a complete classic. A few pin scars don't change that one iota. Sheesh is the nicest way I can put it.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
"You actually got good sticks today? I stand corrected."

As do I. That's a funny thing about the north side of Tahquitz...it's sunny and warm in town, but that side can be waaaaaay different.

Did you top out on something, x15? Which route?
dhayan

climber
los angeles, ca
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
What is the route in that photo of Lynn Hill that Hashbro posted? Looks familiar but I can't place it...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:59am PT
It's Tar and Feathers

Spencer Lennard did the FFA in 1978

Camster (Rhymes with Hamster)

Social climber
CO
Mar 5, 2015 - 09:39am PT
I didn't look through this entire thread, but no Solid Gold, Todd?
Even if that's their list ... well, you know. Cammo
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2015 - 09:44am PT
Cam....it's TEN CARROT GOLD...(Solid Gold is out in joshua tree)....AND I agree...that is one of my favoite climbs;...but now a days....climbers don't like the run out 2nd pitch with 2 bolts in the whole pitch......(just keep moving and it usually works out fine...right?)..


Big Al Bartlett on the "window pane " pitch, Ten Carrot Gold..

Photo by Robs Muir
"borrowed" by Todd Gordon from Google images......
Camster (Rhymes with Hamster)

Social climber
CO
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:05am PT
Oh, yeah. Both routes are superb. Thanks for the correction.
Friend

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:50am PT
Killer shots as usual x15. Love it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
It was so long ago
It must of been the early 80s when I did all those routes.

I only vaguely remember Tar and Feathers 5.11d
We top roped it.

It's a super hard lead, that's why there is a great photo of Lynn Hill on it.
Spencer did a great FFA on the thing in 1978.

How many folks TR it these days?
everyone? no-one?

The nearby Chisholm Trail is fun leadable route.
According to my guidebook, I checked off "The Man to fell to Earth" but can't remember a single thing about it. Must of been late 70s.

Caliente was one the few not checked off.
nathanael

climber
CA
Mar 6, 2015 - 10:21am PT
Any update on the conditions here? Temperatures look warm but probably pretty wet? Was considering going up on Saturday to climb something on the South or West face.
Alois

Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
Mar 6, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
There is still some snow on the south side. The north side has a lot of snow, the south side less so (as can be expected) but there is snow on all the ledges. I would give it at least a week for the south side to dry up..The north side will be in total winter mode for a while..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 6, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Either way, post up!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 6, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
I had a list of my top 20
But it was deleted

But let's go back to the OP's top 20 routes


1. White Maiden'ts Walkaway 5.1
2. Angel's Fright 5.5
3. Left Ski Track 5.6
4. Fingertrip 5.7
5. Coffin Nail 5.7+
6. Traitor Horn 5.8
7. Open Book 5.9
8. Flower of High Rank 5.9
9. Whodunit 5.9
10. Consolation 5.9
11. El Camino Real 5.10a
12. Super Pooper 5.10 a/b
13. Sundance 5.10b
14. Etude 5.11a
15. Valhalla 5.11a
16. Vampire 5.11a
17. Insomnia 5.11b
18. Green Arch 5.11c
19. Paisano Overhang 5.12c R
20. The Pirate 5.12d

Like many other locals, we did 19 of the top 20 (but aided the Pirate)
But No. 19 the P.O.???

It has had very few ascents, free or aid.
Why is it on this list?
Is it worthy?

Well some say..
A couple of my fellow Sheep Buggers were in the same boat, all we needed was the P.O. to check off the top 20.

It started off with a PM from the Driver, he was going to pick up the remnants of the crew and head up to Suicide that weekend (last summer).
He pulled up in his van about 10:00am and reassured us we have plenty of time, it's best to wait until late afternoon for shade.

I take stock of my fellow Sheep Buggars in the Van and surprised to see some of my best buggars from the 80s ready to check off our last nemesis, the P.O..
Manxy Dude, Mims, The Schmutzfink, Larry Loads, Moony, and of course the Driver.

The Schmutz is our best hope of getting a rope up the thing, so he casts off with wild abandon and gets out about 4 feet past what we can reach w/out a rope and falls.

Next up, Manxy Dude.

Well in the end, we couldn't do it, it's just too damn hard.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:13pm PT
It's 58 degrees right now, at 9:12 pm. Windy, too.

Wednesday's conditions are about to become part of the Fern Valley Water District.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 6, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
11:19 pm: Windy as f*#k...52 degrees near town.

County Park bouldering should be stellar!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 7, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Shit's melted off fast, hasn't it?
REIGN 1

Social climber
Las Vegas, Nv
Mar 9, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
19 out of 20. Never got on p o but did belay Rick Piggott when he did it. Only 273 ticked.
Jon Clark

climber
philadelphia
Jun 7, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
Chisholm Trail

I spent three days over the last week climbing in Idyllwild (2 @ Suicide and 1 @ Tahquitz). This thread got me fired up and I thought it deserved a bump. Climbed some great routes including Moondance which is likely the best off vertical face pitch I've climbed. Friend sent The Man Who Fell to Earth onsight sans warmup (pretty rad).

I led Chisholm Trail next and was quite surprised at how neglected this pitch seemed. I found vegetation in the crack and plenty of kitty litter on the face. Does this not get done much or will it simply never clean up? The upper flake was pretty stout for 10c. It's pretty fragile and looks like some of it has broken off. Nonetheless it was an enjoyable outing.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 7, 2015 - 11:11pm PT
From 14 to 16.5 (aided The Pirate, lulz. The move to the belay was exciting in sneakers after back cleaning for 15 feet)
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 8, 2015 - 09:01am PT
ummm i wanted to clean on rappell so back cleaned a bit. I'm sure I could've been less lazy and cleaned with jugs but heyyyyyyyyy why do smart stuff?
Friend

climber
Jun 8, 2015 - 10:38am PT
Ha! Mr. Clark is too low key to spray about his own achievements but his MP tick list paints a pretty good picture.

What a great day it was. Nice and sunny but a few clouds and light breeze kept it cool. A handful of parties around the Sunshine Wall and Buttress of Cracks. Far from crowded, just a few people out quietly enjoying the perfect conditions. Late in the afternoon, gazing across the valley from the sweet ledge at the top of Pass Time, it was impossible not to be moved at the timeless beauty of the place.
Jon Clark

climber
philadelphia
Jun 8, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
Nice! He mentioned you two were heading up. I wish I was stronger, tons of great routes up there outside my range. Bunch of teases

Not Burchey,

We all wish we were stronger. You've been establishing FAs with Vitaliy so you're plenty strong. You could always have your friend pictured in your avatar lead if you're not feeling up to it. He looks like a crusher.
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