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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i think the answer is to shut down san jose city hall. maybe someone already made that observation.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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There are other peregrines nesting in the same area along the Skyline. As Prof. White pointed out, the site at Summit is a very poor one with a high chic mortality rate and will probably be abandoned, he thinks, after a few years. The whole point is that climber activity during the non-breeding season is very well tolerated by the peregrines. People do not upset them when they're not mating, nesting and fledging chicks. Why does every peregrine eyrie in the whole country where there are rock climbs and climbers have a seasonal rather than a year-round closure? Because that's what real science says you should do. Summit Rock is the only rock climbing site in the whole USA that is closed year-round because peregrines live there. Santa Clara County Parks has implemented an exceptional rule in an effort (probably) to keep both partyers and climbers out of Sanborn County Park. If there's a seasonal closure (January to July) the peregrines are not going to be bothered one little bit by the climbers using the adjacent rocks.
The year-round closure, as the photos above show, has encouraged rock vandalism and graffiti tagging. Thus, the closure has actually promoted degradation of the Summit Rock site. For years past, climbers have organized annual and sometime bi-annual cleanups at Summit to remove rubbish and broken glass. These cleanups have been sponsored by REI, Bay Area Climbers.com, Planet Granite and SheClimbs and sometimes conducted under the auspices of County Parks. Now that climbers have been edited out of the picture, graffiti, rubbish and broken glass abound. The members of the climbing community are in fact the only people who have ever done anything to clean up Summit Rock and maintain the environment there. The local Audubon Society and the SC Parks and Recreation Commission have never done anything to preserve and protect the biosphere at Summit. You can't deny the fact that Summit was in much, much better shape prior to the closure order in 2008. What the well-intentioned post-romantic nature nazis have done has resulted in more damage to Summit.
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jstan
climber
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It's Friday guys. Off the top I have to ask. Does Blue hate birds? If so, why?
The last I heard is that common pesticides are a factor in the die-off of bees. The bees that provide the cross pollination our food depends upon.
We don't know shyte about the world around us.
But back to the birds.
What is so f*#king important on our ability to scramble up stuff?
I mean. I mean,
I am just asking..........
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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It's Friday guys. Off the top I have to ask. Does Blue hate birds? If so, why?
The last I heard is that common pesticides are a factor in the die-off of bees. The bees that provide the cross pollination our food depends upon.
We don't know shyte about the world around us.
But back to the birds.
What is so f*#king important on our ability to scramble up stuff?
I mean. I mean,
I am just asking..........
Are you crazy now too, John? Have you read the thread and our stance and their stance?
We do not hate birds. We in fact welcome Peregrines to 'share' the space we use together. And we agree to leave them alone whilst nesting.
Is this so hard to understand?
The year-round closure, as the photos above show, has encouraged rock vandalism and graffiti tagging. Thus, the closure has actually promoted degradation of the Summit Rock site. For years past, climbers have organized annual and sometime bi-annual cleanups at Summit to remove rubbish and broken glass. Now that climbers have been edited out of the picture, rubbish and broken glass abound up there.
F*#kin-A!!!!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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It's really all this Romantic Man versus Nature stuff that's a hold over from James Fennimore Cooper, Rousseau's 'Noble Savage' and the British lake poets that's really naive, absurd and oh-so-dated. Unless they're in the process of rearing their young, the Peregrines don't really care whether or not we're climbing on the adjacent rocks. Therefore, a seasonal closure of Summit Rock during the nesting season from January to July is both appropriate and scientifically valid. What people need to look at is Prof. Clayton White's letter of record on the other string where he notes that peregrines are not upset by the presence of humans during the off season. Prof. White demolishes every single objection that County Parks uses to insist on a year-round closure. Ranger Don Rocha is trying to wiggle out of a seasonal closure because, I believe, he was actually the one behind it in the first place for whatever reasons.
However, the Access Fund is in the process of writing a rebuttal to Dr. Pagel's recommendation of a year-long closure. Whenever they publish it, you can be sure it will appear here. Pagel's argument that climbers pose a physical threat to the Peregrines is so close to the one advanced by County Parks, SC Parks and Rec, the local Audubon Society, and Rocha himself that it can't be coincidental.
Give 'em Hell, Blue!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i'll say one thing for the norcal'ers here, they're giving the machine a run for its money.
at williamson, everyone fell in line and took its cue from the forest service, which, at the outset, came to troy mayr, the chief route developer at williamson and publisher of the guidebook, and asked him to set up "friends of williamson rock". "we must act together," climbers were told. not an ounce of critical thinking. we were given "action alerts" at regular intervals: "now is the time to be heard! write to your congressman and tell him you like to climb at williamson rock!"
troy is a nice fellow and i'm sure he took the bait out of a sense of service. however, i'm also told he's gotten out of climbing and into other things and isn't really that eager to get back on the rock.
others to whom we made the mistake of looking to for leadership chimed right in. "act together! act together! act together!" polly wanna cracker?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sorry to hear about Williamson, Tony. Bruce has been the local driving force here on the ground. Paul Minault of the Access Fund doing the legal wranglings. Without these two sh#t-disturbers we'd be nowhere.
Thanks Bruce and Paul!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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The scene at Williamson sounds a lot like the scene at Castle Rock during the period 1997-2001 while State Parks was developing a Master Plan up there. Sure everyone was invited to meetings where they could fill out check sheets filled with issues written by others who were directing the action behind the scenes. What appeared to be public input was really manufactured consent. The climbing "management plan" was in fact a way of "managing" (i.e. limiting) climbing up there and closing down new areas that had popped up in locations that were not really part of the Park (with a few exceptions of course). The Master Plan said there would be a walk-in campground at Partridge Farm. Now over ten years later there is no walk-in campground. Sure a bobcat was dispatched to the Patridge Farm parking lot and some gravel was piled up and moved around, but that's as far as it ever got. There were supposed to be trails through the Valley of Stone (Lion Caves), down to the Underworld, and beyond to the Green Monster area in the San Lorenzo River valley. There are no trails. Only intentions that were mentioned but never acted on. What I'm saying is that there were certain predetermined outcomes that were already implicit in the Master Plan process, one of which was limiting climbing at CRSP within boundaries defined by "persons unknown". There was supposed to be a Climber's Committee that formulated a plan for bolt installation, replacement and renewal. Even for new route development. Now there is no Climber's Committee although there is a statement in the CRSP brochure that bolts can be installed and replaced if a request is made and approved by State Parks. But the only thing you hear from State Parks is no bolting, or you'll be cited and arrested. It's clear that there were individuals behind the Master Plan process who were managing the whole thing to reach conclusions they'd already formulated and that those people were definitely not climbers.
The same thing goes for the Sanborn County Park Trails Plan. The mountain bikers got 18 miles of trails and so did the dog walkers. But without a mention in print, the climbers lost one half of all recreational climbing opportunities in Santa Clara County when Summit Rock, a traditional climbing area for over 70 years, was simply closed for good without any public hearing or input. And how many people climb at Summit annually? On a typical Sat/Sunday there have to have been at least 50 people climbing out there maybe more? So if you factor in warm summer, spring and fall weekdays, there must be over 2000 climbers using Summit in a good year, maybe more. This is a pretty large voting block I'd say.
However, I notice now that the American Alpine Club has also taken up the Summit Rock issue and prioritized it at the national level. Paul Minault is in the process of writing a rebuttal to Dr. Pagel's letter, which seems to have been written at the behest of Ranger Don Rocha, who appears to have been the chief architect of the Summit Rock closure in the first place back in 2008-2009. He was the first person who suggested to me that the Peregrines at Summit had been driven out of Castle Rock State Park due to climber activity, an absolutely preposterous assertion that is not backed up with any hard data or research. More of this "human values" nonsense based on "feelings" rather than hard science. IOWs: It's the same old same old - Bureaucrats, political appointees, non-profits and Park staff making decisions for user groups without allowing any public input or democratic due process. Big Brother is going to make decisions for you and if you don't obey, they're going to beat you with a stick. Inside the "green" velvet eco-friendly glove is the fist of steel. When words don't persuade, they drive the tank out of the barn.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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I think we need to form a new real climber's committee for all the climbing on Skyline.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Yes, Tornado, that's what needs to happen after this Summit Rock thing is settled, hopefully in our favor. The Climbers Committee should be composed of real climbers who actually climb up there along Skyline Boulevard (CA 35). Doesn't matter whether they disagree about some things as long as they actually climb in the area. But I have my doubts that State Parks would let anything like that take place unless they could control the Committee and dictate all of the rules and outcomes. But let's take care of the Summit closure business first.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i think the answer is to shut down san jose city hall. maybe someone already made that observation.
i was referring to a year-round permanent shutdown, not just for the breeding season.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Dos XX, then by your logic all the closures in Yosemite should be permanent too huh?
I suggest you poke around the national Audubon society website - I think you might gain a different perspective. This particular 'chapter' (and I use the word chapter loosly) clearly does not represent the norm. We have contact many raptor experts all of which had similar conclusions to what we presented. We just chose the most respected one.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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the access fund picks its fights. it did not pick williamson. it also did not pick fossil falls. they have never gotten a cent from me and they never will. i hope you find this annoying.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
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Tony,
The link sends out an email - or rather it's an automatic form for sending out an email for you. Not asking for money here. Just trying to get as many emails as possible sent to show the support for reopening Summit Rock.
Sorry if it wasn't clear - I edited it to make it clearer.
On a side note - I FULLY agree with you about the fossil falls junk show.
Oh and no offense taken!
kev
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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weren't you the guy who got "tooled" at FF, kev?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Yup.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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that was an exercise in what the access fund ought to be, but isn't.
fossil falls is a minor, but important, climbing area with a long tradition of climbing. the changes it underwent raised a whole range of issues in which an effective and intelligent climber interest organization--something which doesn't exist--could have easily involved itself with expertise and a handy legal assistance which ought to have been developed and refined over many years of service. something which also apparently does not exist. when these things come up, climbers feel like they're reinventing the wheel.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
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Tony,
Believe me, as being involved off and on in this issue (Summit rock) it is not how I would have gone about it. An having been to fossil falls and seen what has been done there (or rather wasn't) I agree with you.
That said, it looks like with enough pressure Summit could/should
be reopened. The Access fund may be far from perfect (most things are) and while I may not see eye to eye with them on how we've gone about this, if we get some results then we're better off than we were before.
kev
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Kev and Tony, I think the Access Fund decided to draw the line at Summit Rock because the issues involved are very important to rock climbing access throughout the whole USA and they believe they have the forensic ammo to win this battle. Remember, the Athenians decided to hit the Persians as they disembarked from their ships at Marathon, when they were most vulnerable to a small, highly disciplined phalanx. The same goes at Summit where County Parks is now trying to play forensic catch-up after Prof. White's point-by-point rebuttal to all their excuses for shutting down Summit year-round. It's really too bad that the Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Commission is dominated by self-styled environmental advocate Shani Kleinhaus and other members of her splinter group Audubon Society. Not one mountain biker, not one rock climber, not one trail runner, not one person who engages in any form of active exercise on Santa Clara County Parks lands, only passive appreciators. But it should be kept in mind that Parks and Rec. Commission only has an advisory capacity. The administrative decision to close Summit Rock year-round originated with County Parks and it's their decision to enact a seasonal (Jan-July) closure for Peregrine nesting. I get a sense that the real reason County Parks shut down Summit was economic: easier to shut the whole place down to climbing, tourists and partyers than to actually allocate funding for having someone patrol the place each evening the way they used to back in the 90s. There used to be a Ranger specifically dedicated to Sanborn-Skyline County Park and there was a staff person who drove a pickup truck up there each evening to empty the garbage can and make sure there was no one waiting to party the night away. I notice that Skyline has been dropped from the name Sanborn-Skyline County Park and now it's simple Sanborn County Park, which might have something to do with jurisdictional contraction to save bucks. Dunno.
All I know is that the more letters that come in to County Parks from the Access Fund site, the more ammunition we have to leverage a seasonal closure at Summit Rock:
http://www.accessfund.org/c.tmL5KhNWLrH/b.5208267/k.8C84/Action_Center/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?c=tmL5KhNWLrH&b=5208267&aid=516572
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