Florida stand Your ground law?

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:40am PT
One isolated shooting and all of this? Really? Meanwhile how many nightly gang shootings in the bay area?

PoliTICKshuns have whipped this up for you all to get a big fever going.

From obama on down they all have made sure america gets frenzied by the press .

Some threatening to riot. Who are they going to riot against?

Now look back over the years and see similar cases being thrown up in similar fashion.


Then really ask yourselves WHO is keeping this "racism" crap alive and well.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jul 13, 2013 - 08:23am PT
Hi Ron

Obviously, the case is important because of highly charged racial implications.

And history will record it as an important marker in U.S. race relations

Fundamentally, Mr Zimmermanís defense is, I saw a young Black teen...I made up my mind he was a felon. I persued him, challenged him, he resisted and I shot him. Whatís the problem?

Two strangers who never met... one walking with a bag of skittles and the other provokes and murders him unrighteously. If we can do that and get away with it...what chance do we have for a civil society? ...what hope will blacks and other minorities have for a just society?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 13, 2013 - 08:39am PT
Well put Jennie I concur completely.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 13, 2013 - 10:48am PT
this tragedy trancends right wing / left wing bickering...

But why is it that the majority of white conservative males think Zimmerman had every right to confront Tray for being "up to no good on drugs or something" despite ANY evidence of Tray doing ANYTHING wrong... other than being a black teenager with a hoodie? Why do they seem to think it is okay for an armed man to get out of his car, follow a teenager, and initiate a confrontation for NO legitimate reason?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 13, 2013 - 10:52am PT
That's an excellent summary, Jennie.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:01am PT
black teenager with a hoodie? Why do they seem to think it is okay for an armed man to get out of his car, follow a teenager, and initiate a confrontation for NO legitimate reason?

Because for these idiots it is 100 percent about race.
It's straight up KKK sh#t ...
You're seeing the argument and thinking used for the last 300 years in this country for lynching, killing and assassinating black people.


It's a good day to watch " The Help" and "Django" and realize how pathetically diseased the many of the white people in this country are in their thinking and in their hearts.

And Rong - if we want to know what you think we can read any of the thousands of right wing f*#ktard comments at the bottom of a news article.
Please spare us ....for once

Well said Jennie - folks are missing the forest for the tree bark ..
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:02am PT
the reason doc is their twisted thinking has forced them all into being afraid that IF men like zimmerman cant do what he did

THEIR SAFETY while at home with their family is threatened...
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:46am PT
folks are missing the forest for the tree bark ..

Worth repeating.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:48am PT
and only 114 years ago...


Sam Hose, a.k.a. Sam Holt, was born Tom Wilkes in south Georgia near Marshallville (Macon County) around 1875. He grew up on a Macon County farm owned by the Jones family. His mother was a long-time employee of the family.

Wilkes moved to Coweta County, where he assumed the alias Sam Hose. On April 12, 1899, Wilkes/Hose was accused of murdering his employer, Alfred Cranford, after a heated argument. The argument was the result of Hose requesting time off to visit his mother who was ill. Alfred Cranford threatened to kill Hose and pointed a gun at him. Hose was working at the time with an ax in his hands. Due to the threat he defended himself and threw the ax, killing Cranford.[1] Wilkes fled the scene and the search for him began shortly thereafter. Over the next few days, stories suggesting that Wilkes sexually assaulted Cranford's wife and assaulted his infant child caused a furor. On April 23, 1899, Wilkes/Hose was apprehended in Marshallville and returned by train to Coweta County.

A mob removed him from the train at gunpoint in Newnan, Georgia. Former Governor William Yates Atkinson and Judge Alvan Freeman pleaded with the crowd to release Wilkes/Hose to the custody of the authorities. Ignoring their pleas, the crowd marched northward toward the Cranford home. The lynch mob grew, reaching an estimated 2000 individuals. Once news of the capture reached Atlanta, large crowds boarded trains to Newnan. Mistakenly believing that these trains were loaded with troops, the mob stopped just north of Newnan. Newspapers reported that Wilkes'/Hose's ears, fingers and genitals were severed. The skin from his face was removed and his body was doused with kerosene. He was tied to a tree and burned alive. Some members of the mob cut off pieces of his dead body as souvenirs. According to Philip Dray's At the Hands of Persons Unknown: The Lynching of Black America, the noted civil rights leader and scholar W. E. B. Du Bois, who lived in Atlanta at the time, was on his way to a scheduled meeting with Atlanta Constitution editor Joel Chandler Harris to discuss the lynching, when he was informed that Hose's knuckles were for sale in a grocery store on the road on which he was walking. He sadly turned around and did not meet with Harris after learning this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hose
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 13, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
My instinct yesterday was that Zimmerman's believability hinged on his testimony .
Why the hell would a supposed do gooder who has went in TV shows yapping about what he had done not want to testify for himself?
If he could have testified and showed some intelligence and empathy he might have walked.
Of course, we all know why he never testified. He is a simpleton, a coward and a liar and has no remorse for killing a child.
And he would have been torn apart on the stand.
But the jury didn't know this yet .

I think this is where the manslaughter guilty verdict will hinge.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 13, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
What the hell kind of a question was that that the jury asked?
Sounds like they're total retards -> Zimm's in deep sh#t.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 13, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
I thought manslaughter was out of the question.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 13, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
I posted previously that the Florida sentencing guideline for Manslaughter with a Firearm is 9 1/2 years.

That is the minimum
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 13, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Ya it looks like they were looking to be told what to do.
The question the jury asked was so broad that it truly is idiotic.

I don't think it's over ...
The manslaughter charge is weird is Florida.
I can't even figure it out ...

It really gets into the details - the lies, the inconsitancys, the malice is zimmerman's words and the lack of any empathy, and the over all actions of the man.
You know something that wants talked about was the lack of any DNA eveience to back of zimmerman's claims as well.
It really is a bullshit story and I hope they figure it out ..

So if you drive drunk you can be found guilty of manslaughter .
Just your stupid actions and negligence is enough .

Why is it not as cut and dry in this case?
Is this just Florida law ?


Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 13, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
Zimmerman was out of line. No question.

But people are making a lot of presumptions here, like Jennie's "innocent blood", when in fact we can't know what actually happened and any presumption of innocence by law is due to the defendant.


But now that the prosecution has effected a last minute change of the rules by pulling "manslaughter" out of their asses the jury will ignore the smell, and seize upon it as a spineless compromise.

In the end though a manslaughter verdict would probably save lives by mitigating potential riots.

Pretty sad.

I will likely not live to see the day when we are sufficiently hybridized to make race a non-issue, but fortunately we are irrevocably moving in that direction.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
well then i hope all the blacks riot on the HISPANICS and not the "irish".

Far as i know "palefaces" were not involved..


But ive never seen so much crap of a molehill made into a mt everest crap pile. More are wasted nightly in the bay friggin area.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
But now that the prosecution has effected a last minute change of the rules by pulling "manslaughter" out of their asses the jury will ignore the smell, and seize upon it as a spineless compromise.

No not last minute - this is very common and was expected if you read back in the thread ..

Zimmerman may have pulled off his story ...
The thing is he has lied .. He has lied a lot and been caught

That and everything else is enough for me to convict..
The kid was innocent and carrying candy and got shot dead .
Zimmerman was also no even that hurt ... Another lie on his part ..

Maybe some of you as#@&%es would kill a guy at the drop of a punch ..
Zimmerman WAS CHASING HIM !!! Lol
I just can't even imagine some of your thinking ..
You can talk in a fight
There is a lot of room between punch and shoot in the heart..

At least the prosecution got it right anyway ..
This world isn't completely upside down
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
"innocent blood", when in fact we can't know what actually happened and any presumption of innocence by law is due to the defendant.

We do know what actually happened... Rimmerman determined that Tray was "up to no good or on drugs or something" because he was a black teenager in a hoodie walking around at night.

Rimmerman, a wannabe cop, got out of his car with his gun, walked around the building to intercept Tray, and instigated a confrontation.

White conservative male idiots say Tray should have run, yet in the next breath say Rimmerman was acting in self-defense. Rimmerman was the one who started the fuking confrontation, for NO LEGITIMATE reason.

Why is Tray not allowed to defend himself with his fists when confronted on his way home, but fukhead can instigate the confrontation FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON and then shoot his victim, and claim self-defense?

Can I go into a bar with a gun, start a confrontation for no legitimate reason, and then shoot someone in "self-defense?"
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
I wanna see sum RIOTS baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wish I knew someone in Florida - I could use a new flat screen TV.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
Stand Your Ground Law

In the United States of America, stand-your-ground law states that a person may justifiably use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of an unlawful threat, without an obligation to retreat first. The concept sometimes exists in statutory law and sometimes through common law precedents. One key distinction is whether the concept only applies to defending a home or vehicle, or whether it applies to all lawfully occupied locations.

Under these legal concepts, a person is justified in using deadly force in certain situations and the "stand your ground" law would be a defense or immunity to criminal charges and civil suit. The difference between immunity and a defense is that an immunity bars suit, charges, detention and arrest. A defense, such as an affirmative defense, permits a plaintiff or the state to seek civil damages or a criminal conviction but may offer mitigating circumstances that justifies the accused's conduct.
wiki

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