Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Kimbo

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
But that facts are in spite of general disagreement Maestri was not swayed from his actions when he was the vanguard nor were K&K.

no one listed above fits the definition of "vanguard" (based on their actions on cerro torre).


They changed nothing but the future which has already happened.

it's interesting to ponder the notion that the future "has already happened"....

maybe someone has more on this.

philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
Silly Pomp = Italian Blow Job.

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
;0
Love it.
Jean Gurtorju

climber
land of echoes
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
Hi guys...

Credit: Jean Gurtorju

above a photo of Buddha of Bamiyan, destroyed by ignorance, fundamentalism and the inability to understand the thoughts of others, qualities that characterize the Afghan Talibans.
Well, in the K & K's act I see the same qualities: violence, intolerance, the presumption of being right, arrogance towards those who don't think like them and democratically expressed it in the assembly of El Chalten.

This whole story is very sad.

WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
Impossible to destroy Buddha.

Can never ever be done ever.

If one "thinks" it can be done then they do not know who "Buddha" really is .....
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jan 25, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
The vanguard do not ask permission.
Neither does the deviant. Kind of hard to see the difference here.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
Jean there is not the slightest comparison between these acts.
BlackSpider

Ice climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
Now I've heard it all. Comparing the Taliban blowing up ancient Buddha statues or defacing the Mona Lisa to stripping some unsightly machine bolts from a rock face? I mean, seriously?
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
Ahh, the Taliban make an appearance. Greg Crouch, in his blog entry about the bolt chopping, actually mentioned Auschwitz.

Outstanding!

Snorky

Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
@Jean

Totally inappropriate metaphor. You are implicitly comparing Maestri's bolts to the buddhas of Bamiyan. While both were acts of religious mania, only one is actual archaeology and a skillful work of art.

Furthermore, you are associating K & K with the Taliban. That's just wrong on many levels.

Try again.

iep

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
**Celebrate the madness. Revel in the insanity of it all. Understand your own love of the sport is not a singularity, there are others always with you.

Slap that mad bastard on the back and get to your next pitch.

May the compressor remain hanging from is lofty perch of insanity for many years more. There's 50 years of madness hanging up there, please don't chop it out of some Taliban sense of propriety. The compressor is not yours to chop. It belongs to us all, as does the tale of Maestri and Kennedy and Kruk and Dickinson and lots of others too.

Celebrate the madness. CELEBRATE IT. We climbers are strengthened by the likes of Maestri and Crowley and a host of other mad fools who thought they could live forever.**

f*#k yes.
enzolino

climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:08pm PT
From the interview to David Lama
http://www.lacachania.com.ar/noticia.php?id_nota=193&id_seccion=4
(the last sentence was not so clear to translate)
What's your opinion about what Jason K. and Hyden K did?
They climbed a route without using bolts, that is actually ok, that's their style and it's fine. But what they did during the decent, to remove the bolts, was not very intelligent. I believe they were not entitled to do it.

What do you think about the discussion that was triggered regarding Maestri's bolts? Is it fair to use them to reach the summit? Is it fair to use any mean to achieve the goal?
I think the matter is more about destroying or not. In my opinion, for the first ascent (Maestri's), he was entitled to do on the mountain whatever he wanted to do, and at the same time he should have made his best. In both cases, adding or removing bolts, destroy the route. It's destroying what some body else has done and nobody is entitled to destroy it. The issue are not your skills, whether you're able to climb with or without bolts, but the fact thyt they were on the wall, then who is entitled to add or remove bolts if you're not able to climb (the route)?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
above a photo of Buddha of Bamiyan, destroyed by ignorance, fundamentalism and the inability to understand the thoughts of others, qualities that characterize the Afghan Talibans. Well, in the K & K's act I see the same qualities: violence, intolerance, the presumption of being right, arrogance towards those who don't think like them and democratically expressed it in the assembly of El Chalten.

Cerro Torre is the Buddha, the compressor route is the RPG - how is it you guys keep getting it completely ass backwards?
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
What's your opinion about what Jason K. and Hyden K did?
They climbed a route without using bolts, that is actually ok, that's their style and it's fine.

not correct: 5 bolts
Jean Gurtorju

climber
land of echoes
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:12pm PT
Philo, not only do I think there is the comparison, but I think, as I wrote, that the thoughts behind these acts are the same: violence, ignorance, fundamentalism.

But, as Murakami Haruki in his last great book: "if you do not know by yourself there are no words that can explain it to you."
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
Cerro Torre is the Buddha, the compressor route is the RPG - how is it you guys keep getting it completely ass backwards?

They're not fundamentalists, obviously.

DMT
MH2

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
@Kimbo: i do find the lack of responses to the argentinian's letter posted on a previous page both interesting and telling


The issues here are emotional and appealing to logic and drawing analogies don't settle the dust. It does make some sense to me from my worm's-eye view that the involvement of Cesarino Fava in this story is important and that if the Argentines (or Italians or anyone else) feel that his memory has been disrespected, that shifts my own feelings toward having kept the Compressor business as it was.

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08s/wfeature-cesarino-fava-tribute
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
They're not fundamentalists, obviously.

In this case it's clearly a forest-for-the-trees sort of deal only instead it's can't-see-the-mountain-for-the-bolts.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
But, as Murakami Haruki in his last great book: "if you do not know by yourself there are no words that can explain it to you."

But that statement applies just as much to you as to Phil. In fact it is the fundamental underpinning of all religious argument. As in: "I'm right, of course, and the fact that you deny that I'm right just shows that you are ignorant."

Looking for right, or wrong, or justification in this event is a waste of time. No one was harmed and no one gained money illegally. Many decades ago somebody drilled a few hundred holes in a mountain and put metal bolts in the holes. Many decades later somebody took the bolts out of the holes.

Every day during those many decades, thousands starved. Or were murdered for political reasons.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
In this case it's clearly a forest-for-the-trees sort of deal only instead it's can't-see-the-mountain-for-the-bolts.

Yeah whatever dude you got the mad light shining bright in your eye too.

DMT
Jean Gurtorju

climber
land of echoes
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
@snorky

Maestri's bolts are not the art work, the art work is the line traced by him on a piece of rock that FOR THIS it becomes art.
Otherwise all the bolts on Torre should be removed, even those of Salvaterra, K&K, Ferrari and why not also Garibotti's.
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