Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Messages 761 - 780 of total 2123 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:22pm PT
rolo seems like a very standup guy and definiteyl a world class climber....but why didnt he remove the bolts himself? i dont get it...

if you are going to [preach to everyone about something that is meaningless when compared to action....
Gene

climber
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
If Maestri and Egger had climbed Cerro Torre in 1959 in the purest of style, why would Maestri return to Cerro Torre and use piston-driven bolts in 1970, stop a pitch short of the summit mushrooms, and leave the compressor on the mountain?
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Gene Gnocchi wrote:

If Maestri and Egger had climbed Cerro Torre in 1959 in the purest of style, why would Maestri need to return to Cerro Torre and use piston-driven bolts in 1970, stop a pitch short of the summit mushrooms, and leave the compressor on the mountain?


It is difficult to understand for a mentality so obtuse as your American

oh yeah!
Kimbo

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
So by the way is your interpretation of Kruk & Kennedy's motivations.

remind me what i said about their motivations? i honestly can't recall.

but: to me their motivations matter little, since i have been basing my opinion more or less on the following:

1. the length that the route had been there;

2. the number of people who enjoyed the route (and were perhaps enroute to do it);

3. the fact that the route in no way served as a precedent for similar approaches;

4. the overwhelming support for keeping the route intact at the only meeting anyone bothered to organize;

5. the fact that two kids from north america decided, by themselves (spontaneously?), to remove the route.

i know i can come up with more list items, but i think that's a fair representation of my feelings at this point....
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
yes, exactly
Kimbo

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
rolo seems like a very standup guy and definiteyl a world class climber....but why didnt he remove the bolts himself? i dont get it...

i asked him this in an earlier post (along with some other questions) and i hope he responds. i am very curious as to his reasoning, since he seems to feel so very strongly about the bolts.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
remember that you are trying to justify the (impulsive) removal of these bolts, based on your personal interpretation of maestri's motives- a rather tenuous approach i think.

No, I'm not trying to justify the removal of those bolts. It doesn't bother me that the two climbers took some of them out, but saying that I am happy about it does not justify it.

My concern is only to illuminate the fact that the Compressor Route is fundamentally different from something like the Grand Wall at Squamish -- which many people are bringing up as another example of overbolting. That climb was put up using far more bolts than anyone would put in today, but they were not put in as a deliberate slap in the face to the climbing world.

I'm firmly in the Largo/Dingus camp on this one. That is, trying to "justify" the removal is a waste of time. Some climbers are pleased at what happened, some are outraged. But justify? Nope. Not me.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
Hawkeye, Rolo has been pretty occupied with some really remarkable significant new routes. You know, real climbs.


ALPINEMAN, try US please.
Enlighten our Obtuse American Mentality
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
ok filo
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
美国迪克头
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
yes philo, i am well aware.

but pontification with no action = BS.

mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
Question: How did Maestri get to work?



Answer:In a car, it had airconditioning too.

































Credit: mike m
ALPINEMAN

Trad climber
bogota
Jan 24, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
without Maestri El Chalten would not have existed
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
@yoyoyo
Nope, the opinion on the compressor route is not disputable. Too far of a stretch to call it climbing.

fŔssa sorrate non sarÓ discutibile
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
@Philo
Rolo, thanks for keeping us informed about this...

solo i tonti non si accorgono che quei chiodi non centrano con la via di Maestri, svegliatevi, quelli sono chiodi inox lo vede anche un bambino

e chi li pubblica per calunniare qualcuno che Ŕ arrivato al Torre 30 anni prima di lui, e potrebbe essere suo padre, si dovrebbe vergognare come un ladro preso con le mani nella marmellata
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
ALPINEMAN, you got it wrong 美国迪克头 is not me it's the LEB. Picture to prove it.


My Translatermagizmo works funny this one; solo i tonti non si accorgono che quei chiodi non centrano con la via di Maestri, svegliatevi, quelli sono chiodi inox lo vede anche un bambino..came out like this...

only the accounts do not realize that those nails are missing because of the Masters, wake up, those are steel nails sees a child

And that's cool with me.
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
@Marlow
Dingus: Read "has to" descriptively and not normatively. Used normatively: Persons in this thread has mentioned chopping and The Nose. And both you and I know that the Italians are free to do whatever they want if they have the moral courage and are willing to take the blame, the threats and the possible legal consequences. As I see it this discussion is about the future and not about the past.

Ŕ stata trasgredita dolosamente una regola
oltre a ripristinare lo stato iniziale, ci deve essere una punizione (esempio l'allontanamento dei trasgressori per tot periodo)

altrimenti ognuno fa' ci˛ che gli pare, soprattutto a casa di chi ritiene giusto farlo, e mi pare che qui siete in molti
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
@Ghosts
Even a quick look at this thread makes it clear that hardly anyone knows the story Leo told.

The general assumption seems to be that Maestri went to Patagonia, put up a route on CT which, while it seems sort of overbolted, is part of history, so why would anyone chop it?

In fact, Maestri went back to Patagonia because he was enraged that people would doubt his claimed (but now disproven) earlier ascent, and drilled that line as a way of telling the entire climbing world to f*#k off. It was a deliberate insult, made by a man now generally agreed to have lied about his earlier climb.

Why anyone would see it as something worth preserving is baffling.

le favole vanno bene per addormentarsi la sera

perchŔ non ci racconta come mai non Ŕ neanche riuscito a salire la ferrata di Maestri ? non ci riescono anche i ragazzini ? e lui non Ŕ stato in grado? E gli altri erano lenti? Ma mi faccia il piacere, mi faccia :-)))
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
@yonly
They didn't do what they did because the summited, they chopped the bolts because they knew they didn't belong on that beautiful mountain.

ci sono delle regole, loro le conoscevano e le hanno volute trasgredire, ora la gente si incazza, e pu˛ darsi che gliela facciano anche pagare, non ci troverei niente di strano, se lo meritano eccome
Gene

climber
Jan 24, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
le favole vanno bene per addormentarsi la sera
means
fairy tales are good for falling asleep at night

We agree. You keep yours and I'll keep mine.

Cheers,

g
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