Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Snorky

Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:06am PT
Member profile information for fòradaiball is shown below. This member's account has been deactivated.

Confirmed. Thank you holy admin!

All that barking and gasping made it extremely difficult to hear what anyone was saying. Dude pretty much singlehandedly broke this discussion.

Less attack dog, more Leo Dickenson please. Sucks that one must wade through so much waste to find a few diamonds among the posts. Dickenson's in particular is one that should be in the ST hall of fame.
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:15am PT
Leo Dickinson was unable to make even the compressor route .... "Via Ferrata"
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:21am PT
@stzz
Yes please ... save these Italian morons from further self humiliation, stop responding to them. the opportunity for great discussion has long since past and been wasted

tipica frase di chi non ha più argomenti per far valere le sue ragioni, o che non ha più scuse per difendere i propri sbagli

For the record, I did not make the above quoted statement. That was bmacd.
The cad

climber
Does it matter, really?!?
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:23am PT
Snorky:
Less attack dog, more Leo Dickenson please. Sucks that one must wade through so much waste to find a few diamonds among the posts. Dickenson's in particular is one that should be in the ST hall of fame.
If Leo Dickinson is so important to you, then at least try to type his name correctly :)
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:50am PT
Since this thread now has 875+ posts (and not everyone may want to read all of them), I thought I would point out what I think is one of the most important posts in the thread (that some people might have missed) by Leo Dickinson http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1725375&tn=720

It's awesome to have someone who was there at the time of the Cerro Torre FA's posting on the forum!
rolo

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2012 - 10:59am PT
in case it has not been posted already:

From Claude Gardien, the editor of Vertical Magazine in France
original link here

http://www.pioletsdor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=216%3Aarete-se-du-cerro-torre-&catid=56%3Aactu-montagne&Itemid=1&lang=en

SE Ridge of Cerro Torre : Compressor Route « by fair means »

Cerro TorreThe « fair means » ascent of Cerro Torre’s SE ridge by Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk put an end to a quest that has lasted for many years. The world of alpinism has long understood that it was possible to climb this ridge without using the bolts that Cesare Maestri and his team had placed in 1970. We still don’t know much about what difficulty the rope team had to overcome on this ascent - most likely 5.11+/A2, using 5 bolts in the process – but the impact of their success doesn’t lie with the technical level achieved.

This ascent opens a whole new page on the Cerro Torre history. In 1970, Cesare Maestri, in response to those who challenged his 1959 ascent, decided to prove his good faith by doing another first ascent on this mountain, considered one of the most beautiful in the world. His « success » could now be questioned by all, since he was able to climb the ridge (without touching the summit, « ephemeral » mushroom, according to him) placing a huge number of bolts along the way with an enormous compressor that he eventually abandoned on the wall. The amount of gear he used and moreover, the way he used it were equally shocking: amongst other things, bolts were placed alongside perfect cracks that could have taken natural gear.


The history of the Cerro Torre had started badly: Maestri had claimed its first ascent, without his team mate Toni Egger to back his story, since he had disappeared on the mountain. But Maestri didn’t manage to convince many people of his success and any remaining doubts were laid to rest with the successful ascent of this “route” by Alessandro Beltrami, Rolando Garibotti and Ermanno Salvaterra in 2006. The whole story now shines as just a big waste – for the sport, the ethic, the environment and humanity.

Let’s imagine for a second that Maestri hadn’t bolted the ridge. The first ascent would have been done in 2012. The 1970 ascent has obliterated part of the future of alpinism. It took away from the opportunity for future generations of alpinists to try a clean, virgin line, devoid of any industrial waste.

The Cerro Torre case is no doubt unique, but other faces were climbed too soon, with the wrong means. Of course, they remain to be climbed by fair means. But they regrettably lost part of their virginity that made them so fascinating. They often remain littered with gear left in place. They were climbed without real desire, without respect, with the only goal being to satisfy an ambition.

If the Cerro Torre exemple could temper the enthusiasm of alpinists in a rush to come to terms with a mountain that is too hard for them, this sad story will at least have served this purpose.

Claude GARDIEN
The cad

climber
Does it matter, really?!?
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:02am PT
Here is a today's letter from Mariana Fava, Cesarino Fava's daughter.
(in Spanish)


El Chaltén, 25 de febrero 2012

En respuesta a la entrevista realizada a los 4 escaladores [Rolando Garibotti, Colin Haley, Jason Kruk, Hayden Kennedy] en La Cachaña:
Un acto de esta calaña no tiene defensa alguna, además creo que usaron argumentos absolutamente absurdos y sin fundamento alguno para justificarse.
NO ES EN ARGENTINA donde se piden visas, tarjeta verde, pasaporte de la comunidad, carta de invitación de algún familiar, tarjeta de crédito o efectivo, contrato de trabajo o permisos para poder entrar, eso pasa en países como Australia, Canadá, Estados Unidos, España, "donde probablemente te reciban bien", eso sí, una vez que logres entrar.
Además me parece que dos personas como ustedes, que desde que llegaron a este pueblo fueron bien recibidos, donde muchos de los jóvenes los toman como referentes del alpinismo, no hacía falta la agresión gratuita a toda la comunidad de El Chaltén diciendo que no tiene derecho a opinar porque "no pisa la montaña", suele pasar que esa gente cultiva mucho respeto por la montaña, incluso desde el pueblo; o que la reacción en defensa del acto cometido "los sorprende" o "roza la discriminación" (DISCRIMINAR: Separar, distinguir, diferenciar. Dar trato de inferioridad a una persona o colectividad por motivos raciales, políticos, religiosos, etc.).
Además de sorprenderme que hayan caído en la escualidez de defenderse de un acto de vandalismo (VANDALISMO: inclinación a destruir y devastar sin consideración y respeto a los demás) como el realizado sobre la vía del compresor usando la victimización, esto me deja una certeza: son prepotentes y mal educados. No sirve de nada que anden por el pueblo con sonrisas satisfechas, como si hubiesen salvado una vida. Deberían sentir vergüenza.
Además me pregunto:
Que pasaría si alguien pintara con aerosol el cuadro de la Gioconda porque no le gusta su sonrisa?
Que pasaría si un turista llegara a Chaltén viera algo que no le gusta y simplemente lo elimina?
Que pasaría si un argentino sacara clavos puestos hace más de 40 años de una pared en USA????????
Me parece que sería mejor predicar ejemplos de respeto a los nuevos escaladores, en lugar de darles ejemplos de prepotencia e incoherencia.
Vivir coherentemente significa actuar como se habla, hablar como se piensa y pensar con sentido común y con el corazón si queremos ponernos románticos, créanme que vale la pena.
Quiero decir que es inútil sacar clavos con una mano y con la otra tirar garrafas de gas desde la cumbre.
Deberían dejar las utopías de lado, porque aunque crean que "las montañas son de todos", lamento comunicarles que éstas SON BIEN ARGENTINAS.
No se equivoquen que ser bien recibidos no es lo mismo que ser considerados locales.
Y, por último, antes de hablar de humildad habría que practicarla.

Sin saludos cordiales,
Mariana Fava.
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:08am PT
@ ROLO ...
Listen to the words of David Lama?
janeclimber

Ice climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:13am PT
Many thanks to Leo for giving an objective recount in the midst of the heated debate.
PeteC

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:15am PT
Right or wrong, this thread makes for great reading...I can't decide what was more entertaining-- Leo Dickensons fantastic contribution to the debate, or the Italian guys being asked if they had caught any trout lately...
enzolino

climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:36am PT
Let’s imagine for a second that Maestri hadn’t bolted the ridge. The first ascent would have been done in 2012. The 1970 ascent has obliterated part of the future of alpinism. It took away from the opportunity for future generations of alpinists to try a clean, virgin line, devoid of any industrial waste.
Claude Garden is a Genius ...
I wonder how many climbs we have to cancel from the past, because new generations will be able to do better ...
Congratulation Rolo ... very "smart" article ...
The cad

climber
Does it matter, really?!?
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:37am PT
Claude Gardien wrote:
Let’s imagine for a second that Maestri hadn’t bolted the ridge. The first ascent would have been done in 2012.

I think that this assertion is quite questionable.
enzolino

climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:38am PT
@New Age II
@ ROLO ...
Listen to the words of David Lama?
He is busy looking for consensus ...
Give me one hour and I'll translate it in english ... bye ...

¿Tienes una opinión sobre lo que hicieron Jason Kruk y Hyden Kennedy?

Ellos escalaron la ruta sin utilizar los clavos, eso estuvo muy bien, ese es su propio estilo y está muy bien, pero lo que hicieron cuando descendían, sacar los clavos, no fue algo muy inteligente. Creo que ellos no tenían el derecho de hacerlo, esa es mi opinión.

¿Qué piensas sobre la discusión que se desató por el tema de los clavos de Maestri, si está bien utilizarlos o no para llegar a la cumbre, si es justo utilizar cualquier medio con tal de lograr el objetivo?

Me parece que la cuestión es más sobre destruir o no destruir. Porque en mi opinión, el primer ascenso, en este caso el de Maestri, de alguna forma él tenía derecho a hacer en la montaña casi lo que él quisiera, pero al mismo tiempo él debería haber hecho su mejor esfuerzo. Si agregas bolts o los sacas, esas dos cosas son como destruir la ruta, es destruir lo que otra persona ha hecho y nadie te da el derecho. No creo que el eje del tema sea cuáles son tus habilidades, si sos capaz de escalar con o sin los bolts, si no que estaban ahí, entonces ¿quién te da el derecho a sacarlos o poner otros si no puedes escalarla?
Kinobi

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:41am PT
Guys...
I have been working very hard these days, and I can't read all the posts (together with the junk) that appeared here.
BUT...
I see loads of criticism to Maestri. But most misses the points that we are talking about 2 kids that erased somebody's else route... not about Maestri.

Anyway...

I had the pleasure to be translater by an article appeared in Climbing written by Mark Synnot and Jeff Achey a few years ago.
There is a buch of guys talking sh#t about Maestri's personality. Why don't you guys get Mark or Jeff (I am sure it's pretty easy) and as them to write a note? The also interwieved Cesarino Fava, together with Maurizio Giarolli, and later Ermanno Salvaterra. As far as I know, Marc did Maestri's route too.
Would be nice, rather than having a lot of people talking craps without ever having met Maestri, to get their opinion.

Beside that, I still have a decent climbing level and I am here to get anybody in any of Maestri's route that he soloed, just to get the feeling of what Maestri achieved solo (with boots, not climbing shoes).

Ciao,
E


PS: Note of fun. Whatever the French said, nobody in the world will agree with them.
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:42am PT
That's not genius, "let's imagine"

Anyone can mental speculate and then juggle words to make a fantasy in their fertile minds.

It didn't happen that way no matter how one spins it in their heads.

Get real .....
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:42am PT
@ Enzolino
Era meglio in italiano...va bè va bene uguale... :-))
It was better in Italian ... Well it is fine the same ..
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:45am PT
I don't think anyone has ever questioned whether or not Cesare Maestri was a badass mofo.

It's his ethics and motivations - as well as his honesty - that have been called to question for over 50 years.


stefano607518

Trad climber
italy/austria/switzerland
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:49am PT
PS. thanks God foradaiball account has been deactivated....

sorry guys for this Italian bug.....keeping writing in italian when nobody could understand him

gretz form Europe
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:51am PT
There is the translator
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Jan 25, 2012 - 11:56am PT
I see loads of criticism to Maestri. But most misses the points that we are talking about 2 kids

They are not kids. though you are a prick for calling them that.
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