Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Messages 741 - 760 of total 1703 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
Well then talk; but we're still going to chop
Kimbo

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
Well then talk; but we're still going to chop

i'm sure you'll represent largo's "vanguard" in the wisest of ways (if you are able to pry yourself off your couch).
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
Don't have time to sit on the couch. The thousanth post is coming, don't you know?
The cad

climber
Does it matter, really?!?
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
It's a simple thing, really, that the vanguard - or call it what you want - will never ask permission and calling them pompous, playing God, bad and selfish men, has nothing whatsoever to do with what they do and will do. You and I are powerless over that small percentage of people doing seminal things - good, bad and otherwise. Our appraisals and evaluations of them are totally irrelevant to what they DO.

That's OBVIOUS.
Therefore, what should we do?
Restrain ourselves from judging and stating our opinion?
Close SuperTopo and stop this useless rant?

Pointless.
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
Ok stop there.
Kennedy and Kruk were wrong.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
Ok stop there.
Maestri was wrong.
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
No, without Maestri Patagonia did not exist

RE5PECT
adnix

Big Wall climber
Finland
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
It was january 16th., 1965. If interested, here follows the real cronology and facts about the Compressor Route on Cerro Torre that began when with Fonrouge we were at the top of Cerro Fitz Roy via the Supercanaleta in the second absolute ascent of this mountain. Because this beatiful and exigent mountain merits the most from climbers we did it in alpine style, mostly in simulclimbing, without fixed ropes, siege attacks or artificial weaponry. Behind and below us the fantastic Cerro Torre in clear skies showed with brightness his beatifull icy shape. Time afterwards - I guess it was 1966 or 1967 - at a table of a bar in Buenos Aires with Douglas Haston, Mike Burke and (was there also Martin Boysen?) we were dreamming about giving a try Co. Torre thru the Southeast Ridge and our fingers traced an ideal line over the SE ridge of one of our Co. Torre's photos we took from Fitz Roy summit. Sometime after, Fonrouge joined the British team that arrived high in this line but misteriously stopped before the icy towers. Wonder how the famous expedition rawplug dissapear...? Don't know by sure, but I always remember the conversation I had with Fonrouge at home - and his decision - after our meeting with Haston and friends at the bar that we'll never use an spit. And I also said thst...to give a try to this empoisoned mountain by Maestri's 1959's claim was a nonsense having manny other virgen summits to make. Later, in january 1970 Maestri asked to meet us in Buenos Aires when he decided to make an attempt to the Southeast Ridge and looked for details of the line but didn't mention the use of a compressor and gave us the idea to try the climb by fair means. As it is known they didn't make the summit this time. Weeks after their return I was in Italy for business reasons and he invited me to Maddona were we spent some time talking about his programmed new intent to Cerro Torre in the following southamerican 1970 winter. No words were said about the use of a compressor for drilling holes to plug spits. Upon his return from patagonia having used the compressor and claiming for his new line on the SE ridge - and also mentionning that the top mushroom was not the true summit-, more doubts appeared about his 1959's line statements. Living for professional reasons in Milan-Italy, since late 1973, I had many contacts with the Ragni Group and got an idea about the national battle around Cerro Torre's Maestri claims at the time of his public statement directed to the Ragni Group saying that his climbs were discussed by whom couldn't climb Cerro Torre. Casimiro Ferrari's answer to Maestri was that the Ragni Group climbs mountains that can prove they climb and start to organize another attack to the west face of Torre. As we know today they made the true first ascent of the mountain. More recently Garibotti, Salvaterra and Beltrame proved that no one had transit before the line claimed by Maestri. In my name and the others that resign the dream to climb for first this fantastic mountain I claim for our rights to delete from the walls of Cerro Torre all the remainings - compressor inclusive - of the rape made by Maestri in the 70's and I think that no one - for any reason - can have more rigths than ours.
Carlos Comesaña

In case any of you missed there is also this post from Carlos Comesana. He did the first ascent of Supercanaleta on Fitz Roy with José Luis Fonrouge in 1965 and in alpine style!

What comes to the vote in 2007: I was there at the time of the vote. Back then I was against the chopping but now that it's been chopped I'm really happy that the via ferrata is no more. Without the via ferrata Cerro Torre is really one the most inaccessible mountains on earth. The easiest route up being the Ragni route (1500m, AI5+ M4 MI6). Most likely too hard for me ever to climb it but so be it then.
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:55pm PT

How many climbers have climbed the route compressor? All were wrong?
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
also the routes connected to Maestri '70 was wrong
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 25, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
How about Avant Garde then?
The term was originally used to describe the foremost part of an army advancing into battle (also called the vanguard or literally the advance guard) and now applied to any group, particularly of artists, that considers itself innovative and ahead of the majority.[3]
The origin of the application of this French term to art is still debated.
The term also refers to the promotion of radical social reforms. It was this meaning that was evoked by the Saint Simonian Olinde Rodrigues in his essay, "L'artiste, le savant et l'industriel," (“The artist, the scientist and the industrialist”, 1825) which contains the first recorded use of "avant-garde" in its now-customary sense: there, Rodrigues calls on artists to "serve as [the people's] avant-garde," insisting that "the power of the arts is indeed the most immediate and fastest way" to social, political, and economic reform.[4] Over time, avant-garde became associated with movements concerned with "art for art's sake", focusing primarily on expanding the frontiers of aesthetic experience, rather than with wider social reform.
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
@ Philo
Off topic ....
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
dai cazzo che devo mettere a letto il bambino
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
damn I have to put to bed my baby
New Age II

climber
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
The Americans have surrendered
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
rampik

Social climber
the alps
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Jan 25, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
Didn't they take the compressor up with a giant winch. How much does it weigh? Hell I will go get it. I just need 3 months leave, hire K&K, a giant winch, a nice weather window, travel money, sponsorship from the new smithsonian climbing museum of which the compressor will be the centerpiece, and a fishing pole.

The pole is to go fishing with Donini.
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