Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

Ignoring that statement, would you agree that anybody can go to a foreign country and chop an historical route without the approval of the locals?

I know that Maestri somehow did the same, nevertheless I'm interested to your answer, if you want to reply.

The 2007 meet and "democratic vote" was little more than a farce. There was no democracy at work because few, if any, true "local climbers" were present. The assembly participants were clearly not a good "sample" of this "particular universe". The decision was nowhere close to being a "community agreement".

"and I certainly did not see them anywhere when two of us went to chop those bolts."

"The police played along with the mob and that is quite worrisome. The police should have detained the mob and not the two people in question."

The community of climbers that made and make the history of these mountains, that love them dearly, that "take care of them" has existed since well before the town of El Chalten was established (1985 aprox) and populated (1990s).

Although I reside in Chalten, place of residence to me means nothing. A "local" in my view is anyone that devotes himself passionately, in deed, to a given place, regardless of his/her nationality or origin. Silvo Karo is surely a "local climber" although he is Slovene and does not speak a word of Spanish. Ermanno Salvaterra with his more that 50 bivys on the walls of Cerro Torre is surely a local too, the most local of all locals. True locals, in the ethnic and historic sense of the word don't exist here. Place of residence or origin are of little substance.

The 2007 meet and "democratic vote" was little more than a farce. There was no democracy at work because few, if any, true "local climbers" were present. The assembly participants were clearly not a good "sample" of this "particular universe". The decision was nowhere close to being a "community agreement".

Also, I wonder where were these "self appointed locals" in 2010 when Lama's film crew added a bunch of bolts to "their" "historic route"? I did not see them rioting outside of Lama crew's residence, or taking Heli Putz -the head rigger- to the police, and I certainly did not see them anywhere when two of us went to chop those bolts. Was this lack of involvement on their part some sort of selective "historic preservation" since the Lama bolts would have made the mountain even more accessible?

The notion of the compressor as a "historical route" is the first problem I have with your question. Other than the bolting unfortunately happened, I find nothing "historical" about the route beyond the sad fact it was not 'historically' cleaned up up shortly after the debacle occurred. The second is of the notion of "locals" in this context. Rolo makes the point there are effectively no "locals" when it comes to CT beyond those who love it and have invested time there to climb it.

The only arrogance in my eyes is Maestri's rape of the stone and any efforts to right that tragedy by repairing the stone to the degree possible are welcome (spoken as a non-local, but someone who still aspires to make the trip).

Check out this thread:

It's Time to Remove the Half Dome Cables, started by none other than our own Jim Donini:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1460794/Its-time-to-remove-the-Half-Dome-cables

"Also, I wonder where were these "self appointed locals" in 2010 when Lama's film crew added a bunch of bolts to "their" "historic route"? I did not see them rioting outside of Lama crew's residence, or taking Heli Putz -the head rigger- to the police, and I certainly did not see them anywhere when two of us went to chop those bolts. Was this lack of involvement on their part some sort of selective "historic preservation" since the Lama bolts would have made the mountain even more accessible? "

Rolo throwing down the gauntlet!

Great post all around rolo.

non tentate di scaricare le vostre responsabilità su "assemblee assurde", perchè non ci sono più polli da prendere in giro

otherwise, I would think that you have a double standard

There is no single standard. Every climber hosts double (triple, quadruple, etc.) standards. Its not really something to get all twisted up about. What applies in Patagonia on Cerro Torre doesn't have to apply to El Cap or Squamish and in fact in most cases will not apply.

Its just the way it is. Ethics are inherently local and applying a global (unicorn) standard is a waste of effort.

Climbing ethics as applied in practice are not one-size fits all.