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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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Jan 20, 2012 - 01:49am PT
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I agree with Kelly. Isn't Cerro Torre so much more rad, knowing that there's no 5.10 A1 clip-up on it? .
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fsck
climber
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Jan 20, 2012 - 02:14am PT
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i just couldn't bring myself to put a serious bid on maestri's compressor. i've saw the photos and it seems like there's just too much work to put into it to get it running again. i really don't want to shell out for a brand new compressor but that thing looks like it's been out in the elements for a while and i just don't think it's reliable anymore.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Jan 20, 2012 - 02:30am PT
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That was kind of my point. Although all seem to agree that the compressor was put up in bogus style, I just don't see how it's existence, or even climbers less-than-you climbing it, takes away from you climbing CT in the most bitchin' style, by the most bitchin' route you want. Ever see the "if you don't like the retro bolts on route Such-n-Such, then just don't clip them" argument? Not a direct comparison here of course, but the thought process is the same. Added bolts (or excess bolts) undeniably change the character of the climb and the peak and any actions surrounding them. Unavoidably. Claiming otherwise is, I think, denying the obvious. Maestri robbed the generations following him of the opportunity to compete on the same pure playing field as he attempted to.
Admittedly, I have a double standard and do place alpine climbs in a different, idealized category. I clip bolts and wank around on sport routes as often as most people around here probably, but when it comes to "our" prized peaks, I love that quaint (?) ideal of the survival and preservation (or resurrection ... as the case may be) of the impossible. There is no denying that Maestri's route crossed a line somewhere. Where precisely that ethical line in the sand is (or was) could be debated ad nauseam here. But it was crossed.
I love the fact that if I one day get the opportunity to climb CT, I can do so (or fail?) without having that bolt ladder laughing in my face while I do so. Call it my own insecurity or sorry weakness, but I don't want that "easy out" anywhere near me on something as iconic and beautiful as Cerro Torre. I want to to fail and fail with no option other than to accept my failure as the weakness that it was. Or succeed and know that I succeeded on even terms with the mountain. A line of bolts to either climb, or bail from, changes the whole equation. Changes all the thought processes and decisions involved.
If nothing else, its existence gave somewhat implied permission to others who feel the need to reduce the mountain to just another playground to fill up with their own bolts. Removing them is a statement about the community's view of that kind of thing. That's reason enough to pull them out if you ask me.
Yeah, I know that's all quaint and cliche. Suck it. ;-)
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Kinobi
climber
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Jan 20, 2012 - 04:24am PT
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I am pretty sure Maestri does not give too much sh#t for what they did.
Acutally real men, chops on bolts on lead, not on rappel.
And real men, use the same gear the people they want to criticize used.
Before talking any further sh#t on Maestri, go there, climb the line with leather boots, and with 1970 gear (no cams, of course).
Leave your GTX jackets home too.
Greetings
Emanuele
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 20, 2012 - 04:41am PT
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...only to get their dreams dished by these radical purists.
God forbid anyone should arrive to find the rock in closer to the same condition Maestri found it in. Being able to stand on a compressor mid-route may be a [bankable] part of our [commercial] history but it has, in every respect, been one of collective embarrassment that it took this long to clean up.
Hope is clearly not lost on this new generation of alpinists.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 20, 2012 - 05:18am PT
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Did the Argentines agree to this? This is their mountain, their route, in their country. We as American climbers are guests. How is it that we know best what is right for Cerro Torre? Are our ethics higher and loftier then everyone elses?
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Stefan Jacobsen
Trad climber
Danmark
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Jan 20, 2012 - 05:33am PT
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Studly, did the Argentinians approve of the bolting in the first place?
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 20, 2012 - 05:59am PT
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After the "insane" Maestri's bolts, I wonder when will be the turn of "insane" Harding's bolts on the Nose ...
Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk claimed they only clipped five bolts, so, they used other five bolts.
I see a lot of inconsistencies in the whole "fair means" issue and in this insane crusade.
By the way .. which is the proof of their performance?
Do they have a video?
Thanks
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 20, 2012 - 06:14am PT
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By the way .. which is the proof of their performance?
Well, unless they left a spray of video bolts off to the side or a large chunk of junk you can stand on near their supposed high point, I'm guessing we'll never really know if they actually even made an attempt let alone climbed it.
And as a sidebar: the lost economic opportunity associated with this massacree is probably going to sink the Argentine economy for sure. But then, some guide will probably rebolt it - what with flights and hotels having been paid for after all - and, hey, they could save the country in the process.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 20, 2012 - 06:39am PT
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healyje
if you check on Rolo's website, he doubts about climbers' first ascents if they don't have an undisputable proof. Even a picture with a stormy weather is not sufficient.
So, if these "egoless" guys, who "purified" the Compressor route, want some credibility, according to Garibotti's standards, they should provide at least a video ... :-)
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 20, 2012 - 07:46am PT
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I've heard there's a bolt in the Texas Flake chimney...
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 20, 2012 - 08:07am PT
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Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk can carry on their mission on their own country and remove the bolts on the Nose ...
Go ahead chaps!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jan 20, 2012 - 08:33am PT
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All this hand-wringing and chest-thumping aside - I'd sure like to hear Maestri's reaction. That chap was alway good for a sound bite or two.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:04am PT
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Enzo, they were watched climbing by Colin Haley.
Proof enough for any reasonable person.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:20am PT
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So,
the first big news was that they climbed the route free.
Then that instead, that they climbed it boltless.
Then that they clipped five bolts.
Then that, on the rappel, they chopped most of the bolts.
Cerro Torre is quite big piece of rock and ice, but Haley, I guess from the bottom, monitored carefully that they didn't clip the bolts. This should the proof of their "exploit".
Am I correct?
Is this really alpinism or rather a circus?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:31am PT
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Circus, part 31,419
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A-Train
climber
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:43am PT
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Good on ya boys! Excellent job. Thank you for starting the job of cleaning up the trashing of one of the greatest mountains on Earth.
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KyleO
Gym climber
Calgary, AB
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:48am PT
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Let me clarify...
No media or climber has reported they climbed it free, except in the title of my previous thread. Details were not there at the time I posted the thread and the title cannot be edited afterwards.
It seems they did free Cerro Torre from the bolt line and possibly future bolt lines...(Think Lama). I imagine a sport climber like himself will have a much harder time putting up his red bull route without the Compressor bolts.
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YoungGun
climber
North
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Jan 20, 2012 - 09:58am PT
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So,
the first big news was that they climbed the route free.
Then that instead, that they climbed it boltless.
Then that they clipped five bolts.
Then that, on the rappel, they chopped most of the bolts.
Cerro Torre is quite big piece of rock and ice, but Haley, I guess from the bottom, monitored carefully that they didn't clip the bolts. This should the proof of their "exploit".
Am I correct?
Is this really alpinism or rather a circus?
The circus is Super Topo, not Kruk and Kennedy's alpine achievements. Let's not confuse the two. Respect, guys.
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