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New Age II
climber
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Jan 21, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
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When there is someone who will make the freedom of the road you can say .... good.
This news is nothing .... are two young people who have only made the cool ....... even if they were the best in the world ..... even if they had released a 5.16a route .... .....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 21, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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Deuce4. I bet it is more likly that he built a large hanging camp there? Probly had the compressor anchored there, a bunch of fuel etc? just a wild arsed guess but it looks about as bolted up as some aid belays that I have seen photos of from the valley... if the bolting started for real @ that point then it makes perfect sense that the compressor was bolted there for awhile.
healyj is just an anti bolt freakshow on the order of a crazed republican talking about gun rights, abortion and entitlements so I do not expect any rationol thought about the subject from him. Philo on the otherhand I like you and you are dissapointing me with your myopic view on this. There is a long tradition of climbers traveling the world putting up routs. It is very accepted. Weather or not you agree with the style of the compressor route it was a trade route. The thought of forigners chopping trade routes anywheres it just terrible. Especially in national parks! Get a grip and take an honest look at how most of us americans would feel if any damn outsiders chopped one of our trade routes? Think of the jail time a furriner would get for messing with the cable route? probobly end up in Gitmo.
Even though the compressor rout was most likly over my head I never respected it and would not have minded at all if the locals had chopped the route. For and american to go to annother country however and tell them how to to climb by chopping their trade route just makes me cring with embaresment.
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New Age II
climber
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Jan 21, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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the two young men could make their beautiful street ... once you reach the top, without breaking down the bolts of the Masters. So great were the Mountaineers .... instead they thought with the head of other climbers .. and they are crap!
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Clyde
Mountain climber
Boulder
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
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Interesting thread. Seems like the defenders of the bolts are relying on 'history' as their excuse for preservation (plus wanting to climb a peak they couldn't do otherwise). Yet they ignore the context of the earlier controversy. If this route had been put up as it was without prior context, I'd agree removing the bolts was a bad choice. Given that Maestri went there with the goal of saying 'f*#k you' to the entire climbing world, it's silly to argue it was even close to an acceptable style of the time. I, for one, am glad some in the climbing world finally had the balls to say 'f*#k you' back.
My opinion doesn't count, of course, I'm just an arrogant American who has never been there. Don't really care about which nation's climbers 'own' the rock and get to decide either-that's an equally silly argument that ignores a century of climbing history, not to mention an eon of human history, around the world.
Glad the bolts are gone, the climbing world is better for it. I'd buy one if they go up on Ebay and the money went towards park preservation.
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New Age II
climber
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
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French Canadian Italian Americans, etc. ... this is not the speech ... The theme is another.
If these two boys have gone for a variant, why remove the bolts on the Masters? The two other boys used to go up bolts?? YES
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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Or, perhaps, the Maestri line narrowed people's focus into summitting rather than exploring.
Exactly.
5.11 A2 was being climbed by 1970. A little exploring indeed yielded a more natural line. The bolts clearly generated a tunnel vision effect.
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stefano607518
Trad climber
italy/austria/switzerland
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
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:) i am imagining the nose unbolted......
would it be fine for you guys around may??? or shall we wait for an anniversary date of the first ascent????
which one has to be considered the first?? first free, first tourist on the top ot first to sleep below the grat roof?
citing Rolo's first post
"as it was, and it should be"
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
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Please by all means clean up the Nose. And the Jardine travesty too while you're at it.
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
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The only thing greater than Cerro Torre itself, is the absolute & utter stupidity of logic, presented by those whom argue against, a Canadian & an American, chopping an Italian bolt ladder, which desecrated an Argentinian peak, whom there by righted, the single greatest wrong, in the entire history of climbing.
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New Age II
climber
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
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Eventually, a great climber as Rolo, should try to make the path of the compressor for free. Only then can decide to break the bolts. But the level to make the compressor for free does not. So if you want to do the variations, but should not break the bolts on the Maestri. Who is he to decide??
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:48pm PT
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Well now the headwall is clean and ready for the great climbers of the future to show the way.
Maestri should have looked for a more natural line or gone home and waited for someone skilled and driven enough to ascend the mountain or fair terms.
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New Age II
climber
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Tell Philo .... we wait for some person who clears the headwall before making Cumbre??
Do you agree with me that the two young people have not done anything important? Apart from burning the story of a street??
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 21, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
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I don't agree with you. Kruk & Kennedy climbed a very significant new line in an amazingly fast time.
The finally accomplished what so many before couldn't.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 21, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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Dude 5.11+A2 is no biggie in the Valley or at your home crag but in Patagonia on Cerro Torre IT IS a BIG DEAL.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 21, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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so if the new line is 5.11 A2 then they did not free the CM route or the new line. Isn't a all free ascent generally the accepted basis for redoing a route and renaming it. They didn't do this. So the original aid line with bolts is traded for another aid line with less bolts, and the original line chopped on rappel? Since when has this been done or been ok before?
By the way, I'm not knocking these guys fantastic job doing a new climb, just very curious as to their motives and reasons for chopping a route that has been there for over 40 years.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Jan 21, 2012 - 11:40pm PT
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Will anyone police the bolt police?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 21, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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I am eager to hear Kruk & Kennedy's perspective.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jan 22, 2012 - 12:03am PT
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The original bolt count seems to inflate with every post--450 bolts?
Maestri placed a lot of bolts, but I'd like to hear from Ermanno or someone who has actually counted them for a more accurate estimate. I recall about 5 1/2 pitches of bolt ladders--the "90 Meter Traverse" (2 pitches), and one section after that for about 20 meters, then the final headwall (3 pitches). Those ladders probably account for 175 or so bolts.
Has anyone actually counted?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Jan 22, 2012 - 12:44am PT
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Most interesting situation.
The Maestri bolt ladders on Cerro Torre have long epitomized bolting run amok and the imposition of technology on the seemingly impossible.
For many of us, The Compressor Route has stood as a dark example of how not to climb a mountain.
I've placed a few bolts in my time, some seemed defensible and others maybe not.
Gordie Smaill suggested "The reason for bolts is similar to why Chinese learn English: a necessary evil to cope with new innovations."
He also suggested "when you place a bolt, it's for your comfort and not someone else's."
We climbers like simple answers to complex questions and zealously carve up amorphous considerations with rigid ideological cookie cutters.
Maybe the Cerro Torre thing is cut and dried, long overdue and will be relegated to a tempest in a teacup. I'm inclined to ponder a couple questions.
Was it necessary to chop the bolts to make a statement about their appropriateness?
If the bolts needed to go, was it Jason's and Hayden's right or responsibility to unilaterally do the job?
Was it "neighborly" behavior?
Peace,
PB
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