Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 1943 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
The Alpine

Big Wall climber
Jan 19, 2012 - 08:57pm PT
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about the chopping of the route. A selfish me thinks its awesome.
Gregory Crouch

Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
Wow, incredible stuff. I'll confess to mixed feelings about the chopping, however.
Johnny K.

climber
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
The only insult is the unnecessary bolts and trash insulting the mountains left by coward climbers.

The chopping by Hayden,Kruk,Rolo and others are only helping clean up and showing respect to the beautiful mountains.

Maestri chopped his own bolt ladder on rappel at his high point while claiming the first ascent without even reaching the summit,he didnt even let his partner come to the high point before they rapped and chopped their own bolts on the way down.To hell with Maestri and his history and his contrived route,the compressor needs to be brought down and disposed of,as well as all the other trash left by pathetic climbers.Lama wants to rap bolt a section up there also,on top of all the bs he and rebull have made already.These people are insulting.Trashing the mountains with bolts and gear is the ultimate insult.


I applaud and commend anyone who cleans up trash from the beautiful mountains.So what they chopped the bolts but didnt fill them in yet,its a long process overall.They are doing something positive.Unlike all the big talkers online.
Gene

climber
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
I'll confess to mixed feelings about the chopping, however.


Understood. Tough call. Doubt that replacing the chopped bolts will be high on anybody's to-do list. But calling out Hayden and Jason for probably not filling chopped bolt holes strikes me as silly.

But that's just me.

Cheers all,
g
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
amazing ascent. and tx to the rolo for the post.


one of the most famous undones on on of the most famous peaks in the world in an area that's had a lot of visitation from really good teams.

i don't much care about the bolt holes-- this isn't el cap. high alpine environment, the tiny quantity of granite displaced by those studs is a fraction of what weathers off each year.

i understand randy's qualms about the route itself, though. in a weird way, it had become a sort of historic landscape. we don't line up to chop WW1 via ferrata in the Dolomites.

on the other hand, this is THE route that was in some ways the pinnacle of the mauerhakenstreit of the early 20th century and the bolt wars that followed. it seems to have been the immediate inspiration for messner's "murder of the impossible" exercise, and it was one of the major examples in the siege/alpine debates that i grew up with. the chop is in keeping with the seventies retro of the ascent.

the chop certainly changes the game-- no one is going to casually clip up that old tat in order to engineer a top-down free ascent. of course, that raises still more questions.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
Now it's been decompressed.
Gregory Crouch

Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Here are some of my initial thoughts... and I'd also like to point out that I'm not upset, nor taking sides in this... I haven't been active in Patagonia in a decade, and Rolo, for one, is a friend I much admire and respect...

I just posted 'em here...http://gregcrouch.com/2012/the-compressor-route-chopped

Here's the nut of it: I confess to having mixed feelings about the chopping. Iím sure I can get used to the idea, and the mountain is certainly closer to its original state than it was a few days ago, but on the other hand, itís the end of an incredible story, and I think ďthe storyĒ might be the thing I like most about climbing ó whether mine or someone elseís.

Standing on top of Maestriís Compressor is the most bizarre thing Iíve ever experienced, and Iím a little saddened that opportunity isnít in the world any longer.

(Iím actually fool enough to have been there twice.)
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT

Rolo
You've had so much to do with this--it's incredible to hear
that it is now 'decompressed'!!!!
Randisi

Boulder climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Perhaps I forgot to say:

Amazing adventure guys!
johngenx

climber
Jan 19, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
Superb work. All of it.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Jan 19, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
that's fukin bullshite that they chopped the compressor route. i can just envision expeditions arriving now, intent on the compressor, only to get their dreams dished by these radical purist. i'm really dissapointed at whoever talked hayden and partner into this desecration. i don't give a fuk about what and how they climbed it, they fuked a historical route that was put up way before they were born. kids have no clue.
to hayden, i hope these are the last bolts that you will ever chop.
you been to patagonia and argentina like what, 2 or 3 times? steve schneider
rolo

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
Nobody talked Jason and Hayden into it. To think that is to question two truly independent and visionary minds. I for one did not know until after the fact.

Regarding Greg's point, the story is still very much there. That will never go away. The story just got better.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
the story got BIGGER, not neccesarily better. ss
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
...and they used bolts on their ascent....hmmmm, but those are fine. Maybe those were American bolts whereas the others were Italian. That would explain why they only chopped some. I'm sure all Americans agree that would be fine then.
We presume they used some of Maestri's belays but in pitches only clipped 5 bolts, four placed by Ermanno Salvaterra on his 1999 variation and one placed by Chris Geisler on his and Jason's variations last season.

Rolo, are you teasing us here? Perhaps it should have been left to the locals. What is next, a rappel chop job of Hardings bolt line on El Cap?

In either case, bolt discussions are like farts in the wind, they stink but briefly and are of truly little importance. Although sometimes they are loud, and can leave some sh#t behind after they blow away.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:31pm PT
The drama is beyond the pale.
gmmcdoug

Mountain climber
Calgary AB
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
I am severely sad and dissapointed in the selfish acts of the "superstars". This was a historic route. To those climbing 5.12 it may have just been a via ferrata. But at the same time Rolo, were you able to climb the compressor route free? Why should a historical route that is so surrounded by controversy be removed, because of one side of the story? It is no different from you imposing your values on anyone. Sounds sort of like a dictatorship don't you think? Deciding what is best for everyone?
Class would have been climbing the route, showing it could be done, and then leaving it for others to decide. Not arbitrarily chopping a piece of climbing history (even if it was lies and ethically challenged). There is a certain example set by being the bigger person. What these two did was no different than what Maestri did by chopping the last rock pitch of the climb. They are in exactly the same category. They were saying I did it, and only I can do it. Same statement as Maestri was making.
Aren't climbing routes the property of the community? For mere mortals it was history.
It was a route that should have never been established in the first place but it was. Chopping the route was a disservice to those who have climbed it before and the first real ascent of it by Bridwell.
Again who are you to play the ethical police to anyone? I climb what what I climb because I enjoy it. The best climber is the one having the most fun. So again I ask, what gave them the right to be Team America (or Canada) World Police (F*#k Yeah)
The Fair means ascent by world standards is far less of a contribution than that of curing cancer, at the end it shows us to dream but it is also it the masturbation of the ego for the climbers, further stoking their own egos by taking something away from others.
I believe in climbing ethics, but I believe in freedom of choice and not imposing my views on anyone. I have read the controversy about the peak and it fascinated me. I will no longer have the right to go and climb the route and make my own judgements about it. The accomplishment of these climbers is fantastic but they had no right to remove it.
Sincerely
Greg
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
so when is someone going to chop all those additional bolts on elcap? is it not the same thing but on a different scale? should we applaud the team that removes all the extra bolts on the salathe?
gmmcdoug

Mountain climber
Calgary AB
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
F*ckin chop them all. After all the guys who climbed it before couldn't climb for shitte since they had to place bolts.
Gene

climber
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
Did something similar to the East Face of Washington Column morphing into Astroman just happen?

g
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
Once we have Jason's and Hayden's own report on their climb and what they did, we'll have more to discuss. They're both widely experienced and well rooted climbers, and I'd like to hear what they have to say.
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