Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2013 - 06:19am PT
Cesare Maestri, the spider of the Dolomites, and the enigma on the Cerro Torre route. Article by Mark Synnott in Climbing Mai 1999.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 17, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
in Alpinist 39, Luciano Fiorenza discusses the notion that the fair-means ascent was a "variant," not a new route, writing: "Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk simply opened a variation, which does not authorize them to pull the bolts."


The point of Ed's excellent post, as well as some of the thoughts of others, is that climbing is a direct-action game, not a philosophical or ethical concept, meaning any and all "rights" are exclusive to those on the mountainside. We might not agree with what comes done on El Cap or Cerro Torre or fill in the blank, but so long as we're down here, our thoughts count for nothing up high. That's simply the way it is, the beginning and end of the story. Everything else really is - just talk.

JL
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
That's just a good philosophical point Largo... nothing more... Some people chop, some chip... it's never above ethical reflection...
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 17, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
it's never above ethical reflection...



Point taken, but it's deluded to think our reflections will have some influence on the person up high. He/she is outside the arena. The only way to be a true participant in this game is to strap on a harness and pull down. Otherwise we really are just talking . . .

JL
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Feb 17, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
Just listened to the Enormocast episodes with Hayden Kennedy.

WELL WORTH the listen! I'm glad he got the chance to explain his and J.K.'s side of the story.

H.K. sounds like a solid dude. Thoughtful, and obviously a damn good climber. Sorry he had to receive so much negative blow-back from chopping the abomination.

Now, who's going to get up there and repeat their route??
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Feb 17, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Who is going to repeat the route....exactly the point. Hayden and Jayson didn't put up an "elites only" route and then chop the bolt route leaving an ascent from the Torre Valley side accessible to only world class climbers. Their route is 5:11+ A2... hard enough but not out of the range of most current day Patagonia climbers. Hey, Cerro Torre deserves a climb that stretches people and follows a natural line.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:19am PT
Absolutely well said Jim.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Phil.....seems like a lot of climbers are more concerned about end results than process.
People who love the act (process) of climbing are in the game forever.
Those who are trophy hunting quit once the walls on their dens are full.

Trophy hunters will do anything to assure success....hunters regularly shoot mountain lions from point blank range once they have been treed by dogs.
Trophy climbers are no different.
jsavage

climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
http://pioletsdor.com/images/PO2013/presse/cp5_gb.pdf
adikted

Boulder climber
Tahooooeeeee
Mar 22, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
The South East Face was repeated this January by Luca and Tadej...super strong climbers from Slovenia.....less than a week after they put up a new route on Fitzroy.....strong show!!
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
Has anybody else gotten such an e-mail:

I am contacting you because you made a post on a thread about the Cerro Torre bolting controversy.

When it comes to bolt wars, the rock and the climbing community that cares about it always lose. Stunning peaks and cherished crags are left a scarred mess.

The best cure for this problem is prevention. To help avoid bolt wars from starting, we aim to better understand why people on each side feel the way they do. We are conducting a survey to help answer this question. By completing the 10-minute questionnaire below you can help us take the first step. Participants who complete this questionnaire will be entered to win 1 of 2 $50.00 gift cards to www.Amazon.com.

I ask because I want to know if it's safe to click on the link and answer the survey...

My view: The survey should have been out before. The spinning has continued and it's all starting to degenerate into Kruk/Kennedy applause...
nopantsben

climber
Feb 17, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
it's safe..
it's actually pretty interesting.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Thanks!
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Feb 17, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
Also got it. But have not looked at it.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 17, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
Has anybody else gotten such an e-mail:

The email comes, ultimately, from Jeremy Frimer. He's climbed a lot at Squamish, and occasionally posts here on ST. He recently became Dr. Jeremy Frimer PhD, and was immediately punished by being given a job in the Psychology Dept. at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. In terms of climbing, this is worse than being sent to Florida or Nebraska. Much worse.

He's now overseeing a grad student who is conducting this research.

I haven't had time to do more than look at the first couple of questions and throw up my hands and say "AArrgghhhh! another stupid survey." But that's just me.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Feb 17, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
Yeah, I got the survey too.
I thought it was fairly interesting, as it asked us to associate some emotional/moral terms to the argument that I normally don't associate with climbing. I'll be interested to see the results.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
Interesting, but disappointing that they didn't have the courage to pose the same questions regarding the actions of Kruk/Kennedy - the bolt choppers. They could have gotten much more out of the survey/research. Bad science...
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 17, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
Psychologists. Grin.

I like to place bolts because:
a) I see it as a service to the climbing community
b) Real climbing is too difficult for me
c) It gives me a boner

I like to chop bolts because:
a) I see it as a service to the climbing community
b) Putting up my own routes is too difficult for me
c) It gives me a boner
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 17, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
tried to do it but it took too long on dial up.

I sent a rude email to Frimer and he answered with a polite one. He'd never survive the taco.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Feb 17, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
Re the e mail re survey.
No comment.
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