2nd Opinions Sought: Even American Legends Need Counsel, Yo.


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A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2012 - 11:40pm PT
You may need to get that night guard or eliminate internalized stress/fear/rage from your life.

Eliminate stress/fear/rage from his life?

You mean get LEB off Supertopo?
nick d

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
I've had a bunch of ceramic crowns and my experience is they crack when I hit my head on the ground hard enough. Your mileage may vary.

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2012 - 11:48pm PT
This might sound wasteful, but if you have dental coverage, then getting the non-gold replaced if it fails isn't as big an issue as it would be if you were paying out of pocket.

So - durability then becomes more an issue of convenience, no?

I am guessing you might feel uncomfortable with the gold tooth in front, even if some of that discomfort comes out of a concern your child might be embarrassed.

So why not go with the less durable option, even with the knowledge you may be replacing it?

Admittedly I know nothing whatsoever about crowns. I suppose it is probably a PITA when one fails, so maybe that is more a problem than I imagine.

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
one word: dentures.

seriously. grab yr vicegrips, yank the useless f*#kers, and embrace the polygrip.


Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2012 - 12:15am PT
Happi -- crown failure is a MAJOR pain in the ass, especially if you can't get to a dentist, like, ASAP.

The other advantage to gold over anything else is that they remove way less of the tooth when prep grinding for the crown, so you wind up hanging on to a lot more of the "historic fabric", as it were. Always a plus!

This issue has forced me to examine my not-so-surpressed vanity. If I weren't concerned about how the thing is gonna look, there would be no question, I'd be 18K all the way. Irony is in many cultures gold teefz are considered a status symbol. Maybe I should move to Bulgaria.

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2012 - 12:18am PT
Sick, as in for God's sake DON'T DO IT, or sick as in, "Hey, why not?"

I can't beleive I am actually factoring your opinions into this. After spending so many years among climbers, I've clearly lost my mind. But not my teeth...YET!

Boulder climber
Butte, America
Jan 18, 2012 - 08:52am PT
If cost isn't an issue, go for implants with titanium posts--first rate all the way for the American Legend !

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2012 - 10:29am PT
The idea is growing on me. This and a pierced nose, and I'm set. In any event, I have to decide today. The tooth is about as solid as a fisher tower chossheap.

Credit: bvb

Bling Bling, pinkie ring.

Jackson, WY
Jan 18, 2012 - 10:57am PT
Chicks don't really like gold teeth,. Not sure if that's important in your thinking process.

Trad climber
Jan 18, 2012 - 11:02am PT
You have sought wisdom from the almighty oracle of The Taco. I love the answers you have recieved so far from so many who deeply care about you. If you want to follow their advice, I have a catalog of gold tooth decor to accent your new bling. You can have the tooth inset with a fake ruby, lined with cubic zirconia or impressed with an image of a martini glass, american flag, or a playboy bunny. (A common selection honestly).

Heres the dealio. Dentistry can be a real drag. Its no fun and its expensive. But if its done well it can be something you really appreciate and value. The lifespan of ones dentistry is typically directly proportional to the skill of the dentist and the environment its placed into. Nothing lasts in a mouth full of plaque and filth, not to mention the massive forces we can generate with our chewing/clenching/grinding. If the dentistry is done by someone well skilled and you take good care of it, it can last a lifetime......especially if you are old and a "lifetime" isn't all that long! I see crummy dentistry in peoples mouths every day and it bums me out when I know that if stuff is done well by a skilled and honest dentist, it can last a long long long time, much of it for a lifetime. But you gotta take good care of it. A well made front tooth crown, made of something like emax, if the bite is adjusted properly, can last the rest of your life. It all comes down to the skill and knowledge of the cat who puts it in and how well he undestands occlusion. (Assuming you take care of it and you dont have underlying gum disease). Im a periodintist, so I dont do crowns, but i'd love to be a resource for a legend. I can add you to my growing list of alpine legends I've coulseled in the ways of the tooth. Some dentists become "Dentist to the Stars" and make billions of dollars drilling on Hollywood's finest. Living near The Valley, I'm quickly becoming "Dentist to the Dirtbags". Oh well. I love helping out climbers when I can. Shoot me an email or respond here or just go for the gold and make sure to post a photo for us.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 18, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
I think a gold tooth will give you the player/hater look that you've been missing. Is white gold an option?

A tiny Hello Kitty or Smiley Face might take the edge off...LOL

Jan 18, 2012 - 01:33pm PT

Remember Bachars gold tooth?

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
No Werner, where was it? If it was good enuf for BachStar, it's good enuf for me.

Wen: I got so royally burned in my Divorce, I just don't see any relationships in my near future.

Jackson, WY
Jan 18, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
But don't seal your fate...leave options open! Just because you're not ready now doesn't mean anything about a few years (months?) from now. Plus, you're a legend, or so they say, so odds are in your favor.

I'm voting for plain ol' white, as a boring white regular climbing chick who doesn't get out nearly enough. The pirate look just isn't that attractive.
Off White

Tenino, WA
Jan 18, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
You should pay attention to Wen buddy. The tragic poet pose these days mostly makes you look homeless, and face it: its just not that fun. You need more fun in your life.

Jan 18, 2012 - 03:10pm PT

Bachars gold tooth was his front upper incisor.

When John first arrived in the Valley, Pettigrew always asked "who's that guy with gold tooth?"

John later had it removed for some reason.

I can't remember why.

dont make me come over there
Jan 18, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
Bob, if yer gonna get the teeth replaced, do us a favor and get the whole face replaced - youre not exactly easy on the eyes ya know.

And whats this!? You cant see yourself in another relationship?! Geez after that long, cold bivy at santee i thot we had something special, but now i see you were only after my chalk....


Trad climber
Jan 18, 2012 - 11:25pm PT

I recommend pressed ceramic, like eMax, like Micronut says for the front tooth most the time. Problem is, a lot of dentists do not have experience with it yet. It gets the fine fit like gold, so you don't have as much space to fill in with glue, which washes out and fills with food, then starts cavities in. Gold is soft, you can burnish it over the edges and voila, lifetime restoration.

The other stronger option is full zirconia. Like all other options but gold, the hardness is much higher than enamel, so it will wear your bottom teeth down if your dentist has to adjust the bite.

What I do in this case is use the best lab I can in Canada. They make the thing perfect, and so polished (2000 degree heat melts it smooth) that it no longer acts like sandpaper against the opposing teeth. I have only once had to adjust the bite after I delivered it, and so I had the lab re-finish the crown before delivering it.

And then I warranty the work for my patients. My lab warranties everything they do for me, implants and abutments included. Now days, our materials have evolved to the point that there is no reason why we shouldn't have warranties for crowns. Providing, of course, that you come in regularly for cleanings and check ups, and that you do not host decay in your mouth that could spread to my work. Skipping an appointment voids that warranty as well!

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
I've located a crown specialist and will be seeing him on Friday. He called me on the phone today (! how often does a dentist to that?) and we talked for about twenty minutes. He wants to try to figure out what it is about my teef that results in such frequent crown meltdowns before he offers any recommendations or remedies. The digital x-rays from my previous dentist got e-mailed to his office today.

According to several independent sources this guy is the bomb. He's spendy, but I view this as a long-term investment.

Still want that gold bling, though! I think. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe. Oh, what would Jesus do!?

Got some outstanding feedback from some lurker dentists here on the Taco (Thanks guys! that will help me have an informed discussion with this guy. One of 'em has a classic story regarding crown work he did for a Golden-age type back in the day, but I'm sworn to secrecy...

Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
Jan 19, 2012 - 01:51am PT
Bottom line, you need a great dentist. The newer dental ceramics are awesome in the right hands. If you pay more up front for excellent work it will be a fantastic value in the long run. Personally I use a CEREC machine to mill crowns right in my office. This is one way to achieve outstanding results.

Sorry, I don't know any dentists in Flagstaff to recommend. I have had patients move elsewhere and want to find a new dentist; one suggestion is to look at the website for the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry:


This is an excellent organization, I know not a perfect way to find a dentist but hard to imagine being a member without being WAY into being a honed dentist!

Or for a CEREC dentist:


Sounds like you may have found someone, pretty awesome that he spoke with you on the phone. Best of luck!

Tom K. Michael, D.D.S.

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