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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 8, 2012 - 11:59pm PT
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I've been roadtripping the past week skiing and climbing around Mammoth and Tahoe. I have a Tacoma with a camper shell where I sleep. When its cold, which has been around 19* out at night, the camper lock doesn't like to work.
So there I was...at 0415....all snuggled up in the back of my truck when I heard voices outside. I popped my head up out of my mummy bag when I realized they were next to my truck. I work my arm out of my bag to grab my M&P .40 right next to me. I worked my other arm out and rested it on the slide as it wasn't chambered. I was sleeping with my head at the tailgate, so I moved towards the front.
There were 2 dudes speaking in Spanish. 1 was at the front and I felt my truck shake once. The guy at the rear opened the camper.....I shouted, "WHAT THE F*#K DUDE!!!"
The guy slowly shut the camper and they hopped in their car and drove off. This was the first time I've ever drawn on someone. They didn't have lights, so they probably didn't realize that I was armed. The time from when I heard them to the guy opening my camper was no more than 5 secs at the most. I was in the middle of nowhere outside of Mammoth at the hotsprings.
It's weird, I've spent a lot of time camping at this very spot and never had any issues. Later that morning, I spotted a Sheriff on the side of the road. So, I stopped to give him a report.
Be careful out there.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2012 - 12:14am PT
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hahaha
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2012 - 12:33am PT
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Yeah Riley, if you wouldn't have taken those pitches for me, things could have gotten bad.....
Haha, just kidding bro!! :)
And no, I didn't
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Back in the Gunks for the winter
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Glad you're ok! I had some people help themselves to a bit of my gear when I was in the Tahoe area in 08. No idea who it was but I now have a bit more security in my rig. :)
Steve
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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I had the same basic thing happen to me 25 years ago while sleeping in the desert near Barstow. I was close to the tracks and a couple of illegals rifled my cab while I was asleep in the bed.
I awoke and chased them down as I could see them walking off down the road.
I managed to recover my Sony Walkman, a lighter and a pack of smokes.
They said (actually pantomimed, because I spoke no Spanish and they no English) That they were hungry and looking for food.
I let them know what they did was extremely stupid and dangerous. They got the picture. I let them know that their story was B.S, no matter what they wanted they B+E'd my truck and that can easily get you shot while out in the middle of the Mojave.
Because they 'fessed up and gave back my goods I took pity and sent them on their way with a couple of cans of frijole's and a literal 'kick in the ass".
This was not the last time that I have had similar instances while crashed out in my truck.
In all honesty though, so far the most intimidating has been being woken by an armed BLM ranger who had all kinds of B.S stories about why he needed to see my ID and run a make on it when I was doing nothing illegal. I was on open BLM land -
He was, and I got a 'TOOL" by an armed, gang punk wearing his gang's colors!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a question, but let me preface it...
I believe in gun rights. I believe whole heartily in a citizen's right to bear arms, or even arm bears for that matter.
The guy at the rear opened the camper.....I shouted, "WHAT THE F*#K DUDE!!!"
The guy slowly shut the camper and they hopped in their car and drove off. ...They didn't have lights, so they probably didn't realize that I was armed.
My question/s:
1. You say it was dark and you are somewhat sure that the intruders, in your own words, probably didn't realize you were armed.
You were not just packing but armed with a weapon at your side. So what if any difference did that fire arm make?
2. What do you suppose would have happened if they had a gun and you voiced a verbal threat indicating that you were armed, or simply popped off a round or two?
Either way, you lying in a confined truck bed. They being outside, I would say your best case scenario if things went way south would be that your dead ass managed to wound or kill one of the two intruders.
I don't see that as a positive resolution to the anxiety of potentially being robbed!
You yelled. That is assertive action and sent the intruders on their way.
Granted that worked this time but may not always.
But still yet, even though I support you gun owners I sure don't understand your thinking?
Yes I know, Piton Ron and a bevy of others will flame me with all kinds of weird rationalizations.
I still don't buy that brandishing a gun, even in self defense, will turn out better for you more than 1/2 the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
All in all... I'm glad that you are fine and no violence went down !
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
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The difference the weapon made was in the right hands the hombre's would have expired. I would have rather had a 12ga pump with buckshot & slugs stacked. A hand gun creates issues with the policia but a 12ga keeps you out of trouble.
The question is would you have pulled the trigger? They weren't there to kill you but they were probably going to steal your tools.
thats a hard one...
aloha & be well
rg
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2012 - 01:03am PT
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1. You say it was dark and you are somewhat sure that the intruders, in your own words, probably didn't realize you were armed.
You were not just packing but armed with a weapon at your side. So what if any difference did that fire arm make?
2. What do you suppose would have happened if they had a gun and you voiced a verbal threat indicating that you were armed, or simply popped off a round or two?
1) If they escalated the situation, I would have the means to defend myself.
2) I wouldn't announce that I was armed unless the situation was escalated to the point that I had no alternative.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Back in the Gunks for the winter
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The 12 with 00 is my setup. My brother in law coerced me into taking more ammo than I needed because he is hoarding for the apocalypse...
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2012 - 01:07am PT
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A hand gun creates issues with the policia but a 12ga keeps you out of trouble.
When I talked to the Sheriff, I told him that I was armed. He had no questions or comments.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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yikes, out in bumfuk?
a buddy's truck in Joshua Tree Indian Cove many years ago, same thing, but he brandished and the thief saw it and dropped the lid and took off running.
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MarkGrubb
climber
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In Cali, there is no legal requirement to retreat and anyone breaking into your home (van, RV, tent, truck camper shell where you are sleeping) is presumed to be threatening you with great bodily injury or death in your "castle". Thus, you can legally possess a loaded firearm (handgun, shotgun, rifle) and are within your rights to shoot the intruder(s)to stop the threat. The fact that it was 2:1 robbers:goodguy is a significant disparity in force and this would also be in the shooter's favor, legally.
Being trapped in such confines is a difficult circumstance as you have little to no cover and nowhere to run. Shooting may quickly become your only option if acting aggressively toward them had no effect.
A firearm - with the requisite skills and forethought necessary to deploy them - is merely another tool in the toolbox. I think of it as a fire extinguisher for bad people doing bad things. And like an extinguisher, it needs to be thought of as close to a final resort in a layered defense. A very bright light and a very aggressive attitude is where I would start and hopefully where it would end.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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... around Mammoth and Tahoe. Can you be more specific about where it happened?
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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A difficult situation. I believe if you threaten someone with a weapon you have to be prepared to kill them. If you shoot him outside the camper he is not really an intruder, so you might have legal problems. But if you wait till he crawls in he will be at your throat.
I have an interest in this issue because I live in a small Class C motorhome. I sleep with it locked. If someone breaks in I would have maybe one second to decide to use lethal force. Would I have to sleep with the loaded gun in my hand?
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Somewhat similar deal happened to my wife and I sleeping in the woods south of Flagstaff once. The dog woke up and started growling (very unusual for him). Looking out the window of my shell, I could see two guys in the dark creeping thru the trees around to the back of the truck. The dog lit up barking and they retreated deliberately back to their car, casually got in and drove off. My guess is that they knew people that camp in the woods tend to leave a lot of stuff sitting out at night (we don't) and they were going to take what they could find. My wife was not amused. Frickin' tweakers.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I had a similar situation happen a few years ago when I was sleeping in my truck in Truckee.
There's a thread on here somewhere.
Glad you're safe!
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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I believe if you threaten someone with a weapon you have to be prepared to kill them.
Isn't threatening someone with a weapon a bit like saying "please shoot me first because I have a gun but I'm not shooting you yet." I would never tell someone I had a gun. It's like attacking a guy from behind but yelling at the last minutes so as to ensure failure. Just shoot or sell the gun and hope for the best.
I suppose that if you have a gun and he has a knife, the threat will be enough. If you can't see him though, telling him you have a gun seems like an invitation to get shot at.
Dave
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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... around Mammoth and Tahoe.
Can you be more specific about where it happened?
I was in the middle of nowhere outside of Mammoth at the hotsprings.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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And remember, if you have to shoot, you should aim at center of mass
No.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Some states have a requirement that you must try and retreat, to disengage.
What states would those be (where there would be anything like a requirement to try to "retreat" or "disengage" for someone sleeping in a camper)?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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It seems to me if you're hunkered-down in the back of your truck, you've already retreated.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Your hostility toward me is uncalled for, Rox. I've never slandered you.
IMO, if it's warranted, a lower body shot is just as useful and easier on the legality of it all.
An aside, you call me a 'dumbphuck'. Here's the kicker, I have a job, and I own my home free and clear. Who's the dumbphuck?
Idiot.
Edit; it's telling that my very simple disagreement of Roxjox's statement warranted a flurry of hateful comments.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Same thing happened to me in Crested Butte. 2am someone jumps in the front seat and goes through the glove cpt. I slide the little window between the cab and the bed open and slide my 9 mill
to load and the sound freaks the robber, he replies, you got a gun, and i say yep. He gets out of the car and runs about a block away before calling me an A-hole.
Never planned on shooting him, but i would fire a round in the air if matters got worse.
If he tried to grab me though i would have had to shoot instead of him getting the gun.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Glad it turned out ok. I have spent many a night in the middle of nowhere by myself and have gone over in my mind what I would do but you never really know until it happens.
I have many friends who are cops and all tell me I should be carrying a weapon while camping near roads. I have yet to meet a cop who discourages owning a firearm. I dont carry while backpacking but I always have one while car camping, especially near populated areas. I feel much safer 100 miles in on a dirt road in the middle of the middle of nowhere than I do just pulled off the road a mile or two.
Glad you are safe and sound.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I love you too, Roxjox.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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I always bring my 9mm when I stay overnight in the forest. I am glad that you did not have to escalate this any further. Now imagine if you had a light laser combo to illuminate those fools with... did you go back to sleep?
We were out in that area last weekend(south east of Mono Lake off of 120) camping in the middle of nowhere and I am glad that no one rolled up on us, but we were way off of the highway.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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My sarcasm is clearly lost on your gusty prose and dim intelligence.
Over and out, blowhard.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I had a 3 strikes loser enter my van and try to steal my stereo...I was asleep in the back and thought i was dreaming ....I awoke startled and yelled what the hell are you doing..? I know i scared the piss out of the guy because he wasn't expecting someone to be in the van...He's been in and out of prison for the last 35 years.. .Dave , climber earth...There have been several CAN knifings at the chicken pizza works during the last 10 years and the Upscale Village is a prime location for mammoth violence in a family setting...Guessing the mammoth power brokers keep it under wraps as a PR maneuver..? RJ
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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CAN = ???
I don't like having a round in the chamber "indoors", but if the need arises I do believe that the racking of the slide requires no translation into spanish nor most other languages.
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strangeday
Trad climber
Brea ca.
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This happened to me at the trail head at lundy lake about 20 years ago. Thought it was a bear at first. I woke up as he was opening the shell on my truck. I yelled at him, and threw my boot at his head. He ran and jumped on a dirt bike and hauled of. This was at 8:00 pm. Scared the hell out of me.
CAN?? Definition please...
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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This scenerio has had me feeling vulnerable camping in remote places. My understanding is that even if you use a gun in self defense you will spend $40,000 in attorney fees defending that decision.
That said, if you point a gun, be prepared to fire swiftly and accurately, you may not get a second chance.
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cupton
climber
Where the past and future meet
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I was in the back of my truck somewhere in Wyoming and some drunk rednecks rolled up to thrash my truck. I don't think they wanted to steal anything just shoot up my truck perhaps? I yelled and startled them and they unloaded a few rounds in my direction as they took off.
I had no weapon and don't really know how much 'safer' it would have made me. They weren't looking for a fight, just some late night alcohol infused target practice. What I learned during my time living in Africa is that a weapon is a tool and great for keeping you safe from large non-human predators but actually makes you a target for folks who couldn't care less about you but want your expensive rifle.
Lots of tweakers out in the high desert. They want drugs or stuff they can sell for drugs not looking to get into a fight.
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Gary
climber
That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down
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And what if those guys had just been looking for their buddy who drives the same Toyota/camper shell rig? And you blasted them?
There's lots of reasons someone could approach a truck that aren't necessarily sinister.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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This thread fails to deliver without a pic of you in your PJ's kneeling over the dead intruder. Slap a fur rug on top of them for bonus points.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mammoth in the 70's was pretty laid back...Mostly pot-smoking ski bums and climber refugees from the valley doing menial jobs and anything to support their recreational habits...The only law enforcement was the county sheriffs.....Now there's a 3 million dollar police budget , an in your face snow boarder element and an instant over population of desperate illegals vacumning up the jobs the ski bums would always take...Throw in the out of my way weekend yuppies and you have a town that has no heart or soul and an increasing crime problem..Mammoth, just for locals...! RJ
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Gene
climber
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That area has a long history of shady characters. You do know why we have Convict Lake, Mt. Morrison, Mono Jim, and Bloody Mountain, right?
g
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Gene
climber
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Is Deadman's Summit part of the jailbreak saga? I didn't know that.
EDIT: Deadman's Summit is named after a decapitated murder victim found in 1868 and not part of the 1871 jailbreak and gun fight. Nasty neighborhood.
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TFPU
Sport climber
Idaho
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Carried by six or judged by twelve...........
The few cops I know have said its better to be judged by 12.
Was out climbing a few years ago and a sheriff stopped me at the trail head asking if I'd seen anyone suspicious. When I asked what's up he said some guy just killed another man right around here and was on the loose. I told him I had my .45 on me and to my complete surprise said something along the lines of "good. use it if you see him."
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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This scenerio has had me feeling vulnerable camping in remote places. My understanding is that even if you use a gun in self defense you will spend $40,000 in attorney fees defending that decision.
yep, self defense is still an affirmative defense that has to be argued... if the prosecutiong AUSA/DA decides to pursue it.
Doesn't address civil lawsuit for wrongful death.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Gene..I stopped and read that clamper plaque at the bottom of deadman grade while doing a bike ride...I think it was a separate incident from the convict jail break...but what's it to you... :}
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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You never hear about this kind of stuff in the Canyonlands backcountry! Why is that?
Note to self: do not sleep in guerilla campsites in California anymore. Looks like times have changed.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Same thing happened to me at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon, SLC, in 1990. Sleeping in the back of a toyota longbed, I woke when my truck was shaking. The perp was in the front seat area rifling it, and yelling for his friends to hit other vehicles in the parking lot. They were surely looking for skiing gear...
I sat up, and could hear the snow crunching under foot as he made his way towards the tailgate/camper shell, and had no gun, or knife or anything! All I could do was yell like I was coming out swinging, which I did when that piece of sh#t opened my camper shell. They ran, jumped in a minivan and sped off towards slc on wasatch blvd.
I remember standing in shorts, looking at my broken window, and wondering how I would get that fixed with no cash on a ski-bum wage. As I was driving towards the window repair shop, my water pump went out. Fucccckkkk...
I wish I would have had a gun. The no-escape tailgate left me feeling pretty defenseless. Or at least a can of the bear mace to f^%& them up, but I probably would of just gotten my ass kicked by four or five guys.
Good job on getting through it, its a screwed up experience for sure.
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Tami wrote"Just a curious question here for those of you who have actually confronted a human intruder ( into your home or car ) who has aimed a gun at you? What happened then?
And anybody here greet that gun-carrying intruder with your own gun and had a standoff?
Or shot the person?
No "my friend did........" stories. I want to read FIRST PERSON stories of this.
Why? Because I think it's one thing to brandish a weapon at an intruder ( whether they see it or not ) and another to have an armed engagement.
I can't begin to be involved in ANY of those. But I live in a very different country then many of you guys.
I know that ROE says that if s/he points a gun at ya, you pretty much are obliged to shoot because it's impossible to react to a trigger-pull....... "
Tami, been there done that. I do not carry any shame for the paths I have walked. This is a topic that would raise curious thoughts from many, and being a twice experienced veteran of such incidents just do not think this forum is the right venue to air them.
It may be the fear of being judged, or not wanting the whole world seeing me for what they may read and interpret differently than I meant to express it. Anyhow, been there done that twice, but leary of posting candidly about it. If curiosity is still peaked, I can do more via messages or e-mail. Just not on "the whole dang world is watching internuts".
Burly Bob
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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What is the point of 4 in the ass if you already put 1 in the head?
I think you might be dyslexic, silver.
Somebody needs to make a photo of Rambo in plaid.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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In a typical midshipman prank I pointed a twin 3"/50 turret at a passing tour
boat in San Diego Harbor and tracked it! It wasn't loaded. By the looks
on the faces below me it was clear that they didn't know that. I can't
believe I got away with that. I feel bad now about the nightmares I caused.
Yeah, thems is big azz guns...
OK, back to the serious shite...
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S1W
climber
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Parts of this discussion have raised the question: is Mammoth really that shady? Always seemed like a decent enough place...
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Crillz
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Those of you who have a fire arm in your vehicle - do you, and how do you feel about leaving your weapon in your vehicle while you're gone? For example, you were gone for the day but didn't want to take the extra weight on the approach/climb over, etc.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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Most of us who have a gun in the car lock it and hide it when we are out for the day! Yes, it is a risk. Rather loose my gun than my life.
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Gene
climber
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I've heard that the best urban and suburban in-vehicle bivies are WalMart parking lots. Open 24 hours, well lighted, and with parking lot security. True?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired to Appalachia
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I had a similar episode a few years ago while I was sleeping in my truck at Crested Butte, Colorado.
The perpetrators who were trying to break in were a 10-year old kid and his father.
I like to think that that man reconsidered his way of live when I shoved my .357 in his kid's face.
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jfailing
Trad climber
Lone Pine
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This thread is nothing without pictures.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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About 4 years ago a group (5) of Mexicants wanted to take money from my friend and I (in Mission district SF). Both of us were heavily into Boxing/muay thai back than. After two good knockouts and another one got couple of real good blows (face was covered in blood but got up) the rest ran off.
After this incident I kind of hoped the government would build a wall on the border some day....I wonder how many people have to deal with this sh#t daily.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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This christian friend put a bumper sticker on my truck that read " Anal Intruder " . It was on there for a few days before i discovered it and a neighbor lady brought it to my attention......Twin 3 inchers pointed at tourons...I like your sense of humor Reilly....RJ
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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I find this thread quite surprising. Granted it is anecdotal, but enough anecdotes are cause for a trend. I doubt there have been studies on the safety of backcountry camping.
Group me in the non gun owning camp, but always considering it. I just find better ways of spending 400 bucks then on a 570. I had my car stolen over last thanksgiving with a ton of gear in it when staying at a friend of a friend outside Vegas, upscale subdivision, and I was shocked. I thought my buddy moved my car in the night. My brain doesn't think about adverse outcomes very easily. Generally, I am a willfully ignorant optimist, but you all are making me reconsider, especially when I crash on the side of the road.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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About 15 years back: I left Reno around 8:00 PM on an August afternoon, drove NE up I-80 to about 15 miles south of Lovelock, and found an exit with a decent dirt road that climbed up into the hills.
There were no mailboxes at the start of the road, and no houses in sight.
I drove up the road just as night was falling, and after 3 or 4 miles, took a little used side road out another mile or so, to a less used road, and drove up it until it ended. I turned my4-Runner around, parked, and ate my deli-dinner: while enjoying some wine, a warm summer night, and the miles away headlights on I-80.
Unfortunately I kept my cab-light on, while sipping wine, and reading.
After a while I saw headlights start up toward me from I-80.
They were at least 4 miles away, and could not possibly be heading to me.
I turned my cab-light off anyway, grabbed my .357 (being an Idaho boy-I keep it handy) and exited the vehicle.
The headlights went past my side road, stopped, backed up and entered my side road.
Same thing happened on the next side road.
By now I was behind my vehicle, sweating in the dark.
I was pretty sure I would take off running, if the vehicle occupants proved hostile.
About 50 ft. away, the intruding vehicle stopped: with my Idaho Plates, and fairly new 4-Runner fully illuminated by its headlights.
I stayed hidden behind my 4-Runner.
The intruder's engine turned off.
There was about a 30 second pause: then the cop turned on his Twinkies.
I left the pistol on the rear bumper and walked forward with hands fully-extended up, while saying loudly:
“Officer, I’ve never been so happy to see a cop in my whole life!”
It was two good-old boys Sherriff’s Deputies from Lovelock.
They had come out to check out an electric transformer that had caught on fire. One confessed he was taking a piss in the dark, and just happened to see my far off cab light.
They had a good chuckle with me about keeping me honest, and didn’t even ask for my license.
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Gary
climber
That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down
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You boys sure live in a different world than I do.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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FYI-
The best urban bivvies are at a truck stop. Too much traffic and too many people around.
If I'm travelling alone, I always have my trusty pistole handy. In isolated camping, never without a firearm.
Consider taking a self defense firearms course; it's really not about shooting but the mental preparation for stressful encounters.
Most folks are walkin' around in "condition white," no inkling of any threat at hand. But...see a few potentially "illegals," or inadvertently drive into a bad section of town, go to "condition yellow." That means lock your car doors and begin thinking about egress (getting the eff outta' there); spy a distinctly hostile threat, go to "condition orange," and get a weapon at hand, and if a hostile move is made, go to "condition red" with a live round in the chamber. Treat life as an interesting game of chance and try to anticipate scenarios that are potentially life threatening; then try to avoid the confrontations that MAY arise. Lethal force is nothing to play games about.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nobody has mentioned that it is possible to work Murphy's Law to your advantage.
If you HAVE a gun then you won't need it.
The beauty of this is that, if my theory happens to be wrong, well, then you HAVE a gun.
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Gene
climber
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Ron,
Please help my understand how Murphy's Law applies here. My IQ must be less or equal to .50.
Thanks,
g
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Murphy says you will only need a gun if you don't have it.
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kennyt
climber
California
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Those f*#ks were probably from Idaho looking for wolves.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Don't worry, Gene. Murphy's my cousin - I'll put in a good word for you.
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Gene
climber
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"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong". Murphy
Murphy says you will only need a gun if you don't have it. Ron
Murphy's my cousin Reilly
Got it.
g
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Ron: Thanks for the beta on Lovelock area. I did some rock-hounding north of there, up Star City way, but never felt at home in Lovelock or the Humbolt valley.
Contact NV, between Wells & Jackpot on Hwy 93, has a similar reputation in this area.
It is always interesting to run into the gun-toting landowner.
It really has been years, but I remember fondly being twice kicked off claims by miners carrying 30-30's. The second time was while fishing in the Idaho back-country. The miner explained that too-many fishermen had found huge-nuggets on his claim.
This was 1967. After we were leaving, he sighed and exclaimed: "If the price of gold would go to $1,000.00 an ounce like it should, and if the price of an honest day's labor would go to $5.00 like it should-----I'd have a 100 men working this claim."
The fishing was good there a couple years back, and the miners were long-gone.
I don't smile as much at my memory of two Peruvian Sheepherders who piled out of their sheep-wagon, and had 30-30's pointed at our knees as we emptied trash-cans into our Forest Service truck. They had obviously been warned about Forest Service Rangers, and we summer grunts were close enough for them to be aggressive.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I don't smile as much at my memory of two Peruvian Sheepherders who piled out of their sheep-wagon, and had 30-30's pointed at our knees as we emptied trash-cans into our Forest Service truck.
And the reason they didn't get majorly tooled was what?
Other than the fact it was a hundred years ago?
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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I had a similar situation in Tuolumne Meadows; yet different in every way.
I was sleeping in a friend's truck in the Mountaineering School parking lot, parked in front of the guide's tents. Early a.m. someone opened the camper shell, slightly reached in. I am thinking what is going on. I just lay there to see what's up as well as wake up.
The hand begins to feel around, but blindly. It is a guy's arm. He finds a day pack. He feels his way inside and is searching with his fingers.
I am just laying there; thinking I am about to nail this thief. I was curious as to what he was going for and also a little bewildered because I recognized him.
He finally pulls his hand out of the bag. In it is a pair of panties. He lets the camper lid close and quietly eases across the lot and into the Mountaineering School.
I don't know how long I laid there and laughed; but it was a good while.
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rand0M aXiS
Trad climber
Beserkeley
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I've heard that the best urban and suburban in-vehicle bivies are WalMart parking lots. Open 24 hours, well lighted, and with parking lot security. True?
Yes.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Reilly: Re my mention & your response.
I don't smile as much at my memory of two Peruvian Sheepherders who piled out of their sheep-wagon, and had 30-30's pointed at our knees as we emptied trash-cans into our Forest Service truck.
And the reason they didn't get majorly tooled was what?
Other than the fact it was a hundred years ago?
In the Northern Rockies in the 60's and somewhat later: the Forest Service folks did not carry guns or have LEO folks in their employ. There certainly are LEO Rangers in the Forest Service now.
I suppose we could have filed a complaint with the county Sherriff. We did mention the incident to our boss: The FS Ranger. He said he would mention it to the grazing permit owner.
I always liked the Forest Service insider explanation about why Forest Service Rangers were so mellow, and National Park Service Rangers were frequently confrontational.
The Forest Service manages resources, the Park Service manages people.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Not an intruder story, but a gun story none the less, so excuse the thread drift.
My wife and I went hiking down a random creek in the san gabriels a few years back for a random day birthday outing. We chose our creek for no other reason than it looks like a nice little slot canyon from the road. After an hour of hiking or so, We came to a small camp. Curious, I poked around and it looked like it hadn't been occupied in months...it was chock full of wet mexican porn. At that point we were creeped out and decided to head for home. As we turned around, we were confronted with two hispanic men with rifles coming towards up from the side of the canyon. I told my wife to run, and we cruised back up canyon as quick as our boulder hopping legs could carry us. We got to our car with our hearts racing, and drove down the hill.
On the way out, We saw some FS search and rescue doing some serious hanging out, and I decided to tell them about the encounter. They basically said, oh yeah, we have been monitoring that creek for weeks, although our surveillance has been limited to above the road. They shot at some of our guys a few day ago, and we have been making a plan about what to do. Thanks for letting us know they are below the road too.
Take it from me angeles national forest is/was a war zone.
I have seen evidence of growing in the Big tunjunga, s. kaweah, and sherman pass areas too. It is everywhere off the beaten path. FS is either outmanned or outgunned, because it is pretty scary on remote and not so remote waterways.
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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I always thought that driving to go climbing was the most dangerous part of a climbing trip - now I know its camping.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Jan 10, 2012 - 07:59am PT
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I've heard that the best urban and suburban in-vehicle bivies are WalMart parking lots. Open 24 hours, well lighted, and with parking lot security. True?
I sleep frequently at WalMart when traveling.
Someone once tried my door in the middle of the night. Fortunately it was locked. I've also had to leave "early" when I didn't like the feel of the place, after parking there for a while.
I read of an RV robbery by fake WalMart security guards.
Use your nose. If there are other overnighters there its probably OK.
Note that many municipalities have ordinances against sleeping in parking lots, regardless of WalMart policies.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jan 10, 2012 - 08:04am PT
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what i know of such confrontations is that there is nothing like a big mouth. if you need a gun in your pocket for your mouth to work, so be it.
if you don't take sides in the drug war, justin, you'll have less to fear.
pardon the further thread drift, but my wife and i hiked up the san gabriel river canyon a few years back and came across a dozen latino guys with high powered rifles. being half italian, i generally consider myself more latin than the average latin american. we smiled and got along great. on the way back, the group was considerably excited. one of the fellas had shot a deer and they were trying to figure out the mountaineering necessary to retrieve it. they pointed to the spot on the ridge where it had been shot--damn, seemed like a half mile away--incredible.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 10, 2012 - 11:23am PT
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^^^ Especially if yer in Denmark. My wife was 18 and her sister was 16 and
they couldn't even afford the Youth Hostel so presented themselves at the
friendly local hoosgaw. Bemusedly they were led to an empty cell. After
some whispering and furtive peeks they were wished a good night and the
door gently closed, but not locked. In the morning they were brought coffee
and, duh, danishes!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 10, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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Uh,............. Rox,
the USA already incarcerates more people than any country in world history.
There's not much space. Many local jails are already taking overflow from other states for payment.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Jan 12, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
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Nice for close quarter’s personal protection at day or night works but best at nighttime.
Reason having 1200 lumens pointed at the person or person’s eyes that wants to do harm: blinds them for ten to twelve minutes. [They see white for as in where did everything go]. It goes away and get to see again but in those minutes of his where “I can not see anything” lots you can do.
Best to walk away but if considered a threat you can smack him providing you do it the correct places. Hitting bones as in top of hands [will break/crush about 15-16 parts and would need medical help]. Shin area of leg good spot as well. Chin with his mouth open: Ouch!.
Just need to know how much pressure to use if you go to his temple. Too hard can knock him out and kill him.
Stick systems for self defense been around for long time. Do not know which Jason Bourne movies, haven’t seen it but understand he used rolled up magazine, so same principal. This has a bright light.
Have two modified for my other half [girlfriend of 15 years which does ballet at night and walks to the car] and grand niece [same thing walks to the car from work at night]only difference is they have a wrist sling so it will not come out of their hands. Women hands are weaker.
*Disclaimer again will repeat this on weak wrists for women: just some, climbing woman no problem, in fact probably better then mine since old, feeble and getting senile.
Cost: $130.00 need special rechargeable system to go with it but go to web site. Model # in picture is Cree XM-L with narrow beam. EDC-XML wider both will do the trick.
Just make sure not to use if sleeping illegally in the valley, if ranger comes up, you wake up and point it at him I think he will get pissed off. You could in those minutes of his haze get away in plenty of time but probably already written your license plate # in his book or called it in.
Of course you can say “Hey! I thought a bear was trying to get in” then that might work. But then he will ask why did you leave knowing I was not a bear? You would have to come up with your own answer.
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