New ride time, Which wagon? (OT)

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Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 29, 2011 - 01:50pm PT
Alright, so the tranny is starting to slip on the ol Sable in cold weather, which is common on these A4xN Ford trannies, basically they were good for about 100k-140k before they crap out. It would cost more to rebuild it than I have in the car, and other things are due for replacement..tires, battery, etc.

So, looks like a new (used) ride is in the near future. Primary considerations:

1. Can bivy in the back with minimal hassle
2. Reliability (specifically the auto tranny,because sticks suck in traffic and I live in SoCal)

Looking to keep it under, say $12k. Which gives me some options. So let's hear your input. BTW, no Saabs...shitty ECUs that cost an arm and a leg to replace, seen 4 different 9-5s with shot ECUS under 70k. Also, no BMWs, the vanos variable valve timing units have notorious seal issues, so we're talking 2000-2006

Jetta (1.8T or 3.2 V6)
Passat(1.8T or 3.2)
Volvo V70
MB E320
MB C230/240
Saturn LW300
Subaru Legacy or Outback 2.5, 3.0
Audi A4/A6

others?
G_Gnome

Trad climber
Pebble Wrestling.... Badly lately.
Dec 29, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
Outback with the 2.5 liter turbo would be the choice for me. After all, you don't want to be one of those subie drivers that everyone complains always drives too slow.
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Dec 29, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
A friend had an Audi A6, described as a money pit.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
the VAG 1.8T is an "interference engine" which means that if the timing belt slips, you trash the entire engine...

...my daughter's newBug did that due to incompetent dealer service.

Otherwise, the 2011 Jetta TDI Sportswagen I have gets great mileage and sleeps me in the back without any problems. The automatic trany seems to be an option... (I have manual).
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
Dec 29, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
For all of those except the Subaru you'd better do your own work. And the Subaru is much the best for clearance, plus good AWD. Not great mileage, though.

Maybe also consider Honda Element (if you don't mind fugly)?


Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 03:27pm PT
No Elements, I specify wagons because I want to drive a car, not a truck, van, or SUV. Grew up driving F150s, and driving trucks and suvs suck, they handle like doo doo, are noisy, get bad gas mileage, etc. Clearance isn't a concern, 99% of the places I go you could get any cholo's lowrider in there.

Also not particularly concerned about interferene designs...shit almost every Honda made for decades were interference engines. Those burly Toyota pickups from the 80s with the 22R, one of the most durable engines ever built? Also interference designs...although they did use chains not belts IIRC.
G_Gnome

Trad climber
Pebble Wrestling.... Badly lately.
Dec 29, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
A better way to set the element up.

Credit: G_Gnome
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 03:36pm PT
I remember looking in one of those Elements one time, and IIRC even with the seats all folded like Gnome's pic, it's STILL too short to sleep in. I was kinda interested in them when they first came out, but the short "sleeping" space killed it for me, same thing with the Mazda 5 microvan, which is otherwise kind of attractive as a climbing rig, but still too short to lay down in.
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
prius
BBWolf

climber
Dec 29, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
I'm partial to wagons. Avoid Volvo. I had a bad one.

Subaru is the way to go. Just bought the turbo outback - sweet. My commute subaru is fast approaching 200,000 worry free miles. I have been looking at the Element as a replacement.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
Our family rig is an A4. Pricey upkeep and I think too small to sleep in. Fun as he11 to drive though.
ELM !

climber
Near Boston
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:07pm PT
Look fast...there is no 2012 Element. Subaru is the way to go though!!
ChizzDizzle

Trad climber
Rocklin,CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:15pm PT
My experience with a 2000 Jetta with the V6 was great until the odometer hit 110,000 and it was paid off. That is when the coolness of the VW wore off and it was traded in. I did regular oil changes/maintenance but that could not stop the radiator from exploding. The mechanic is a family friend and he gave me the deal to replace it at $800. He said that the VW is great until 100,000. And it was.
I would buy another one but it would have to be brand new with a full warranty. The wife had a Subaru Forester and although we could hear a lot of road noise when we were on the Hwy's it was very reliable and me being 6"3" I could and have slept in it many times just have to go corner to corner. Good Luck!
Gary

climber
That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:15pm PT
My girlfriend's Matrix sleeps two. I'm 6 foot and can sleep stretched out. We've gotten it into some pretty rough trailheads. If you don't particularly need 4WD you might consider it.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
Elcap those cars on your list are all pricey from a maintenance standpoint, aren't they? Saturn included, (my wife has own 3 Saturns, they have weird 'only Saturn' parts and are f*#kall to do self maintenance on)?

Aren't there other American wagons on the market?

DMT
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
Prius, 2nd Generation: 2005 - 2009.
You can fold down one side of the rear seat and sleep in it unless you're over 6'2
Reliable as tanks: I'm at 150K trouble free miles
Decent in the snow if you replace the OEM piece of crap tires with good all season M/S.
45 - 55 MPG unless you put your boot in it, then 40 MPG.
Cruises easily at any legal speed +10. Donner Summit at 75 mph with 2 aboard.
Room for two full sized people plus all their stuff for a big trip. 4 full sized adults if you don't fold down the rear seat.
Check this forum. About 2 years ago someone posted a simple mod to make sleeping easier on the folded down seats.

Low clearance so if you want rough backroads, not a good idea.

Don't know what you pay for a used one but anything under 75K miles should give your $$ worth.

The only essential options: HID headlamps and Vehicle Stability Control. All the other options are just fluff.

Edit: they also get very good crash ratings. Like any modern car, you crash it seriously and you throw it away. At least you're likely to walk away.
monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 29, 2011 - 04:58pm PT
The Element has no problems sleeping someone 6ft stretched out. The front seat needs to move up only a couple inches for me. I suspect someone 6'4" would be ok too as the seat can move up quite a bit.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
Jetta Tdi wagon if you can find one in that price range

(35,000 trouble free miles on my saab, in the last year, btw, smarty pants)
jfailing

Trad climber
Lone Pine
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:12pm PT
Sportwagen' it
Sportwagen' it
Credit: jfailing

A third "Aye" for the VW TDI... Lovin mine so far...
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
Dingus, you are right on...but...

I went domestic on this last one, specifically due to cheap, abundant parts (half the fleet cars in America are Ford Taurus, and the Sable is just a Taurus with leather). This was after turning wrenches under a 528iT for a couple years and choking on the prices for parts. But the 4cyl in them, especially with the extra wagon weight, is a dog. So you get the Duratec DOHC V6, which is mated to these shitty transmissions...which ain't cheap. Looking about $2400 for a rebuild/install...I only paid $1650 for the car, put another $500 in parts and a day under the hood right when I bought it.

The Element is ~5'5" from the rear gate to the back of the front seat. About 6' if you slide the seat all the way forward, gets mediocre gas mileage, and drives like a van...so why would you not just go the minivan route and have more room with the same mileage?

Leaning toward the Suby at this point...or just biting the bullet on the tranny rebuild, car only has 120k on it and otherwise is in decent shape aside from cosmetics...and it does get 27-28mpg on the hwy..which is better than the VW 6cyl, if the VW wasn't busy being broken. Since Audi is essentially a VW with some upgrades, and both of them have pricey parts and the worst nameplate reliability of the last decade or more in pubs like Consumer Reports, it was alwasy going to be a stretch for me to buy one.

Mazda 6 is an outside option, but it just doesn't have enough room compared to everything else in the midsize wagon sector.

squishy

Mountain climber
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
What about the forester? Reliable and AWD...not as large as a van but a great car...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
Credit: Jaybro
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 05:25pm PT
Hey Jay, is that the same "trouble free" Saab that was firing tranny codes back in the spring?

TDI...meh. They don't do well with automatics (I've never even seen one with an auto), and around here diesel is usually more expensive than gas to the point the fuel mileage bump is basically a scratch. Engine probably lasts longer, but in reality it's not engines that kill cars anymore.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
Yup, needed tranny fluid top off. 20,000 miles back...
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
doesn't Russ have a great little number sitting in his driveway?
just add a long block, top off the propane "daisy" and off you go!

that is, assuming he'd part with it...
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:05pm PT
Hey Jaybro
Your speedo shot reminds me.....
'86 SAAB 9000 Turbo. 1 hour flat from Ely Nevada to the city limits of Delta, Utah.
I got 250K miles on that sweetheart 'till I let the 5 speed tranny fluid get low and she froze up at the south end city limit of Coarsegold.
A most excellent vehicle when properly maintained.....D'oh!!

Elcapinyoarse
Speaking of spectacularly reliable vehicles: I got 230K miles on a '92 Ford Explorer 4wd manual transmission. Had to replace brakes, battery, shocks, 2 clutches and the alternator. Sold it when it needed another clutch ($1K) and rebuild of the front UJoints ($1200). Sold it for $1600 cash because I was about to start a 110 mile per day commute. Averaged about 19 mpg town, 22 mpg highway.
I wonder if you could find one "driven only on Sundays by a little old lady"?
johngenx

climber
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:25pm PT
+1 for a Subaru. We're on our third, and they are simple to maintain, durable, and go a lot of places. The 2.5L driveline is used across the various models and there is a great supply of high quality jobber parts, meaning no bucks-up dealer visits. A lot of indies can easily service them thanks to their simplicity.

The automatics in the Scoobs are reliable.
monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
Yer way off there ElCap. Just measured it. With the seat pushed all the way forward, it's 76 inches. You would have to be taller then 6'4" to have a problem. You can dislike the element for other reasons, but roominess is not one of them, particularly when one or both rear seats are easily removed completely, not just folded up.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:46pm PT
Ford Focus wagon.

Cheap. Merrican. Auto. Cheap. Sleep in back.

You could buy 3 of these for the price of a TDI.

Better clearance too.

Too bad we can't get the diesel rally ones that them Euros have.

My CHEAP $0.02

J
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
Will, my little bro has a Jetta tdi wagon with an auto tranny, little over a yr old. Has gotten over 45mpg. , and speeding tickets. In your situation that really is what I'd be looking at.

OT, Saab talk;
Hi T , I think the mid late 80's may have been the golden age for Saab. I've had four from '85 to '90 that each went over 300k miles before expiring. And those were sporty, fun miles! I have a speedo shot from an '89 900T going 115 just west of Ely on that Lonley highway, sigh. My current 2002 9-5t is way more solid at those speeds but less slingshotty!

Back On Topic!
But you don't buy Saabs unless you crave driving Saabs. They are more durable than reliable.

The wagon market is problematic for some reason. An infitley utilitarian design, yet they tend to be expensive (Saab, Audi, BMW), or quirky for the less fun ones; Subaru, Honda, Taurus/ Sable.

Subby's are great if you get a good one, about 50% of the ones I've owned.

Interestingly, like hi T's exploder, I had an 89 trooper, 4 cylinder, real 4wd, that I ran for 250k miles and it almost always got over 20 mpg. Why don't they make those, any more?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 06:49pm PT
While you've got the tape measure out there Mono...how about with the front seat halfway...so a passenger can actually sit in there without their knees in their mouth and the bivy can be behind them without additional messing about?

Realistically though, if I were going that route, I'd probabl;y just buy a minivan and call it good...same gas mileage, more room, similar driving.

I agree that Subys are good, my 91 Legacy wagon with the 2.2 was the best car I've ever owned. Drove the sh#t out of it up to 195k or thereabouts and sold it because it needed an alternator, AC compressor and I had a new job in Redlands were it's 105 in the summer. But honestly that Hitatchi 4EAT auto in it had some problems with torque bind in tight turns, although could have been bad speed sensors on the wheels, and the AC compressors in those years sucked big time. Mine had been replaced twice before I bought it and the third went out when I owned it. Luckily I lived in AK at the time, and was thinkging "who needs AC?"

May just drive this Sable until I get stranded somewhere. I can manually put it in 2nd and just drive the first couple of miles until it gets warm enough that it shifts regularly. And in a couple of months it'll stay warm enough that it's not an issue until next Dec or so.
monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
Sure, keep moving the goal posts. Now you have to sleep and have someone sitting in the seat. Hilarious. Yeah, it's so hard to slide a seat.
justin01

Trad climber
sacramento
Dec 29, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
Credit: justin01

My beloved 2000 CRV on our way to red rocks over thanksgiving, two days before the puppy was stolen.

Got her back now, and just put a new set of tires on. Just maintenance stuff in the last 200k.

I would buy another one, but I don't care much for the newer styles, and I don't have to cause this thing refuses to die.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 07:00pm PT
Not moving any goalposts, when I say "able to bivy with min hassle" I don't want to have to be constructing parts of a platform to span the gap when the seat is slid forward, I want to be able to have a normally operating passenger compartment with the bivy sleep-ready, fully assembled.

Kinda moot anyway, as I said if I wanted to drive a box with mediocre gas mileage, I'd get a minivan that does everything better than the Element.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 29, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
Is it really a bivy if you sleep in the car?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 08:13pm PT
Just get a truck and quit being a sissy.

Your list of demands of your desired veicle (and ones you can't have) is quite impressive. Good luck!

Car shopping meets Drama-Queening. Why not just start a car company? Seriously. That way we can be blessed with the perfect car for climbers who want low MPG, huge sleeping space, quiet rides, and almost no maintenance.

PM me, I may want to invest in this company...

(you actually have Audis on your list???)

Good luck!!!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 08:20pm PT
Audis could well be he new Saab....too mainstream, though
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
Dec 29, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
A non-turbo Volvo 850/V70 gets 20/29. If you get, say, a 1995 to 1999 model with low miles, they're inexpensive, quite reliable and if you can turn a wrench the high costs of repair won't bite you. The V70s started having throttle and transmission issues after that and generally those were the last years of relative non-money-pittedness. Roomy in the back, but I still move the front seat forward.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
Audis could well be he new Saab....too mainstream, though


Yeah, whatever...

Ever driven a Cadillac? One of the newer ones?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Dec 29, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
I think the ford transits would make good weekenders/daily drivers. Here is a video of me describing one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X40BhPQrP_4

James Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Dec 29, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
Audis are a blast to drive, but they have
the potential to be very costly to keep on the
road over the long haul.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 29, 2011 - 10:29pm PT
I've heard the same about Ferrai's and Boeing 747's....
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Dec 30, 2011 - 12:36am PT
1957 thunderbird...pink
















Fred's slide show
Fred's slide show
Credit: LuckyPink
not my photo
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 30, 2011 - 01:24am PT
Yeah my friend, the other day was just telinlg me about how much time his 747 spent in the shop.... He's running a Zepplin now....


Actually I hope one of my friends gets one of those ford transit campers!
Reggaemylitis

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Dec 30, 2011 - 03:52am PT
Really, every car make and model can have issues, or you can get lucky and have none. Take my 2006 A4 wagon. Seen a ton of posts on the Audi forums with people having horrible electrical problems, loss of boost, and fuel cut issues. Other than a couple warranty recall items which were fixed for free, I have not had a single issue with my car in 4 years other than routine maintenance, which I now do myself once the free factory service ran out. There is no way I am paying the $200 an hour labor rate in CA. And I've also added mods that bumped up the HP/Torque by 50 of each with no issues for 4 years. Even on an Audi, most shite ain't rocket science! Just need the tools. If you get a code, you can even buy the software to check it yourself and fix, or pay someone near you $10 to read the code for you and then go fix it.

All that being said, I always wanted an Audi for their interiors, turbo 4 cylinder which is fun as hell to drive in a manual after a few upgrades, and Quattro AWD. But I do know I am one bad break from a $2000 repair bill. But I am willing to take that risk, because every time I get in my car it makes me smile. I'm 6'1 and I've slept in the back several times with no problems.

If I couldn't have my car I'd probably go the Outback route.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Dec 31, 2011 - 10:11pm PT
My vote is Audi A4/A6…

Sweet ride…


Bad gas milage, but… you have a job most of the time… you can afford it..
khanom

Trad climber
The Dessert
Jan 1, 2012 - 10:31am PT
You already have so man preconceived notions, so why bother asking?


I lived out of an older RAV4 for a long time. Not a wagon per se, but it's really not an SUV either.
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Jan 1, 2012 - 11:07am PT
For all "those" people (I once was one) who say that Subarus are slow--AND those posting 100mph dash shots...




I rarely get passed in my 95' plain Jane Legacy wagon, any road condition--it's the driver, IT AIN'T THE CAR !!!!






edit : Ask Ionlyski :-)
Prod

Trad climber
Jan 1, 2012 - 11:21am PT
Did you get 1 yet?

I like the XC 70 a lot. I know nothing about it's reliability, I just like how it looks.

BTW, I love my 2004 Sprinter 2500. I got it for 14K on Ebay with 70K miles on it. It can sleep 4 easily, I get 25-28 MPG fully loaded and it goes 80 up the passes here in Co. A pal who owns a Dodge dealership in Detroit says the engine is good for 300K, but as you said earlier it isn't the engines that kill rides these days.

Prod.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 1, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Dunno about newer VWs, but my '96 is rarely "broken".

Parts wear out for sure, but the one that wears the most quickly is one that I can replace myself.
okie

Trad climber
Jan 1, 2012 - 11:53am PT
I could tell the Element was too short just from looking at it.
Subaru's get mediocre gas mileage. And all of mine seem underpowered, but I'm too cheap to spring for the bigger engine. They are great off road to a point, but are certainly not high clearance. I do like being able to cruise around places like Indian Creek without worrying about tearing something up, or having to go 3mph.
My Ford truck gave me more repair-free miles than any of my Subarus have except for my '08 and the jury's still out on that one.
My '98 had to get the main gasket replaced at about 60k, an expensive repair. This was common with the '98. I did keep that one for over a decade though.
My '03 has some funkness, for sure.
I can sleep in the back just fine, but I am 5'9".
They made the latest version too big. It's really not a normal size car anymore.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jan 14, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Audi Allroad:

http://models.audiusa.com/allroad

that's what I'm talking about
kennyt

climber
California
Jan 14, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
C'mon man Ford Aerostar.. or one of these
Credit: kennyt
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 14, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
You getting any closer on this?
This seems like it should be a tightly competitive field....


Kennyt, that thing has a longer wheelbase than a shortbus!
kennyt

climber
California
Jan 14, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
Yeah, Jaybro it really isn't very practical
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Mar 15, 2012 - 11:40am PT
I have a 97' Subaru Wagon with 234,000. I think it is the best value in an AWD car with decent clearance. I just checked the bluebook value and its under 2K. And yet it gets it done!

I am lucky that my wife has a Prius. On the last road trip we got 52MPG. So we mainly drive that. I would love to see a thread on cars with over 40MPG that still work great as climber cars. For example, we took my wife's old Prius on a serious Baja surf trip. Everyone else either a Tacoma or and F150. And yet we got by just great and got about 48-50 MPG. We even able to sleep in the back. Only downside was we had to drive a little slower on the gnarly dirt roads.

Awesome article here on loving your old car.

Excerpt:

Remember when you first started climbing, or skiing, or mountain biking, and you went out and bought all the gear, and then you immediately sped to a car dealership to purchase a reliable $45,000 sport utility vehicle so you could drive to all places you needed to go?

Me neither.

seth kovar

climber
Reno, NV
Mar 15, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
Maybe also consider Honda Element (if you don't mind fugly)?

...or horrendous gas mileage.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 15, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
still liking my 2011 JSW TDI... 42mpg city+highway
sucks off road though... low clearance...
sleep in the back no problem
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
I gave up, re-registered my Merc wagon and put new tires on it. Unless the tranny gives up the ghost, I'll try to get a couple more years out of it, then start looking again.

Actually, I'll be looking between now and then, but without a pressing need. I don't finance cars, all cash, and it's hard to get psyched to drop 20k or more on a vehicle when you're actually writing that check, I like the 2k-5k beaters, preferably from elderly folk.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 15, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
We were driving our new XC70 to WY last summer. Going up a steep hill on
I15 in Utah in a thunderstorm I was passing a semi doing 70 when I hit a
sheet of water and started going in a direction I didn't really care to.
While correcting I reached down and hit the big W get-out-of-jail
button and it felt like the thing was instantly locked onto a set of rails!
It was pretty awesome - I felt totally at ease about putting the hammer back down.
The wife, sitting as she was alongside the semi's wheels, did suddenly
acquire a new set of dinner plates for eyeballs.

My only beef is that you can't use the Selectronic shifting when in AWD.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 15, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
maybe I'll be an "old folk" by then!
you could by mine...
WBraun

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
Prius

A piece of sh!t car.

Overpriced garbage.

Try and fix something on them and the parts cost a fortune.

Has blind spots all around it. Can't see out the rear worth sh!t.

We have two of them here.

Toyota donated them.

I hate those dumb ass cars so much I've never driven them further than just in the lot when repairing some bullsh!t on them .....
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
^^^

Yep, did take me a bit to sort out the blind spots...mostly a matter of having the seatback in the right place. I'm not crazy about the extreme rake on the windshield and where it ends up putting the A pillars (very similar to the Honda civic after the ~2008 restyle), but you get used to anything.

This rig will save me over $1k on gas per year...which basically pays for the cost of the car.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
Prius are simply great cars...period. I've owned two and Never had a single problem with either (105K on 1st -- a 2005 -- until I was rear-ended at high speed by a Mrs. Magoo) and currently 35+K on my 2010.

When we replace the other car, perhaps we will get a Prius Plug-In.

The down-side is incredibly poor clearance. You can't reasonably get into places like Clark Canyon. Other than that, it is comfortable to drive and handles city and highway driving well.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Nice, Will!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
double back bitch

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Since this thread started about AWD wagons, I'll point out that in my unscientific subjective experience, I believe I see a disproportionate number of Priuses (Prii?) spun out on the median strip in wet weather.

TE
MisterE

Social climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Good on ya, Will. I am guessing you were going to get full coverage anyway rather than just liability?

That is the only down-side of financing: comprehensive insurance.

Great rate, either way. Cheers!

Erik
John M

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
the first prius had great visibility and they fit big people. the new ones suck. at least fit and visibility wise..
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Feb 6, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
My fantasy right now would be a Sienna with a mattress frame in back. Gear underneath and crashing on top
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Feb 8, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
Prius

A piece of sh!t car.

Overpriced garbage.

Try and fix something on them and the parts cost a fortune.

Has blind spots all around it. Can't see out the rear worth sh!t.

We have two of them here.

Toyota donated them.

I hate those dumb ass cars so much I've never driven them further than just in the lot when repairing some bullsh!t on them .....

have always wondered how many people buy the car to save on gas mileage, or are they concerned about the environment?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
stoopid gurus don't know how to drive a prius
John M

climber
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Its not that he doesn't know how to drive it. Its that he keeps adding things on for SAR

Credit: John M
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
the first prius had great visibility and they fit big people. the new ones suck. at least fit and visibility wise..

Having been in the 1st Generation Prius (which was Corolla sized inside and out). Having owned a 2nd Generation which was substantially bigger inside and out (almost a mid-size inside fit). And, currently driving a 3rd Generation which is even bigger inside -- definitely mid-size sedan space (though visibility is somewhat less), your comment makes no sense.

As far as visibility is concerned, not only do"you have to check your mirrors...just the side of your eye, side of your eye" , but actually turning your head to look is always advisable...

And for those Prius haters out there "Don't drive angry."

Skip ahead to about 1:12 for Phil giving Phil these sage driving instructions.

John M

climber
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
A former girlfriend owned a first generation prius. We did a number of road trips in it. My friend owns a 3rd generation. I have driven that multiple times. I just fit better in the first generation and it was easier to see out of.

But whatever. If you are happy, then thats cool. I just have a different preference. I never liked the small sports cars with poor visibility either. I'm happiest in a big SUV. Though I really liked the first generation prius and I use to own a mazda glc that I liked for visibility.
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