I disagree. What is done is done, and what HAS BEEN done, iss that the person came forward to the parties concerned and apologized. They have forgiven him. That is really what matters.
He'll never be able to satisfy everybody, and you speak only for yourself and not those everybodies.
You may not like what you are witnessing, but that is beside the point. It isn't about you(and I don't mean that in a negative or aggressive way);.
To paraphrase Mark Smith's own statement on the matter, we are not defined by our past sins, but by the direction we take in the present.
Given that the direction we're taking on the subject right now is - for the first time in years - overwhelmingly positive, why try to steer it differently?
Have an internet hug.
I think Tucker's the pink one. EC's on the right. Werner's probably Fluttershy. He seems like a Flutterguy. DMT can be Rainbow Dash, he's almost awesome enough.
If I took a crap on someone's rope I'd wait a long time to confess too. Sort of embarrassing! But anyway, the WOS guys accepted the apology and praised him for it. So what now? Lawsuits? Cash settlements? Burning at the stake?
hhhmm, while this is a point of view, does attempting to pay the pentance for wrong doings equal out the actual doings? We need to look at each individual case, and in this case it was about some pooped on ropes and a few chopped bolts. HARDLY a "serious offense" as it were. And really, each and every one of us that has glammed onto any thing WOS to keep the mystery alive and thriving are as much to blame as any single "player" in that game. Perhaps apologies be owed universally from every "view point"? and dats my "thought" for the day lol!
Dude does something stupid. After years of feeling ashamed, eventually he fesses up. People shame him for fessing up. Next guy can't work up the nerve to fess up.
Scenario B:
Dude does something stupid. After years of feeling ashamed, eventually he fesses up. People praise & thank him for fessing up. Next guy doesn't have to work as hard to get the nerve to fess up.
Not surprising that MTucker would choose Scenario A.
Not surprising that most of the decent people on the forum would choose Scenario B, and / or would understand that alleged narcissism and regret / shame can co-exist.
I understand this thread. At what point do we draw the line between, "I'm sorry' is ok and convicting a confession? My immediate thought when I read the original confession was, would we give Hitler this much praise? Obviously a big extreme, but guilt is guilt, No?
Does the face that being a bully is usually a result of low self esteem make it ok? I don't think so, but I think that Steve did a big thing in making his apology public. There was no need to do that. He owes nothing to any of us other than Richard and Mark.
I stand behing my post on the original confession thread, but I also think this thread has its place.
Is Steve better than the other 2 for saying he was sorry first?
Oh, dude, Hitler??!! It's just rock climbing and a stray turd. Clearly, the guy has felt shame over it for 30 years and manned up enough to admit his mistake. He gets more credit from me than any of the internet napoleons who would trump up his one admittedly crass act into a call for burnings at the stake.
MTucker is a baseless deviant who would do better judging his own public actions.
Please ! A soiled rope? Thirty year old memories of it? I don't think that would draw a disorderly conduct fine anywhere in the U.S,. thirty years and departed.
The real offense was it punctuated the contempt of dozens toward the FA. If one repentant prankster deserves flogging three decades gone... then round up the whole valley complement that demonstrated derision and give them spankings too.
Forgiving isn't hard...especially if you're not the tormented party. We don't see a lot of gracious and unselfish acts here. Offender (aren't we all) and offended manifest grace here today. Please don't trample on that.
MTucker maybe someday you will grow up too. Is that anonymous as#@&%e thing really working for you? Wouldn't you rather be positive and appreciate what people have to contribute instead of trying to cut them down? The one who suffers most from your negative attitude is you.
You know, normally I’m not at a loss for words but on this one it is hard to describe how I feel. A bit pissed off and sad at the same time. I have known Mark and Richard long before they did Wings of Steel and they are ethical climbers. Not to mention skilled. The falls required to lead that route are more than most are willing to put out. It’s sad the ridicule that they have had to endure on this forum and in the climbing community in general. The character assaults were unrelenting. I agree with Tucker for the most part. I do admire the fact that Steve finally came forth. But sometimes sorry just isn’t enough. What I am impressed with but not surprised is Mark and Richards willingness to forgive and move on. A class act for a couple of dorks.
I Love this thread! I really should find a funny graphic to post but...whatever
It's a beautiful test and drama of life that the WOS team should undergo this giant epic on the stone and epic of controversy in the climbing community only to be finally vindicated and pass the test of their professed Christianity by forgiving their transgressor. It's like topping out at the end of a 30 year big wall epic.
and also a beautiful example that Steve should come, as a super accomplished climber with his hat in his hand, demonstrating that someone once famous for his hubris could admit his mistake humbly and publicly come clean without defensiveness.
Humanity rarely sees such victories and the bloodlust for punishment pales by comparison. We've all made mistakes and done wrong. For once, it lead to a good example and transformation all around
Cheers and Kudos
Now it's your turn to have a change of heart and do something noble for a change Tucker. What's the value of calling for somebody's hide who comes out to make things right? Feels like some kind of misplaced jealousy because of the attention
Even the Haters cannot desecrate the beauty of apology offered and forgiveness rendered. The shame that Steve once felt, and no longer needs to feel, has been lifted away once and for all.
Mtucker sure is an interesting carnival mirror eh? It shows us some interesting angles on our little Payton Place here.
You know its right about the gushy gush in that other thread. If mtucker didn't point it out stinkeye would.
That's the thing (a thing) about the Taco... when there's something needing to be said?
Someone will say it.
"If god didn't exist we would be forced to invent her."
Its good to know... there stands ever ready, the crooked finger of condemnation, the shrill voice of blame, the hard eye of judgement; poised to nail the little bastard to the cross.
Its another one of those principles of the universe.
Use it to your advantage. Don't invest energy in the cold wind, its already gone.
Hey Dingus, in the Wings of Steel Wrap-Up Internet Hug, which pony would you be?
I think Tucker's the pink one. EC's on the right. Werner's probably Fluttershy. He seems like a Flutterguy. DMT can be Rainbow Dash, he's almost awesome enough.
MTucker=Acer=Base1250 needs to feel the shame of posing as other climbers and sending vulgar, hateful emails. How ironic that MTucker says SOMEONE ELSE needs to feel shame.
ec
Let us know!