Pearl Harbor remembered 70th anniversary!

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 41 - 60 of total 129 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 8, 2011 - 08:53am PT
And then it turns out right after WW2 they became a foe.

They were a foe well before the war ended. Had we not met Russia at Berlin the map of Europe would have looked very different after the war...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2011 - 08:58am PT
On 8 Dec the Secret Service was very concerned that the Japs might kill
Roosevelt on his way to the Capitol for his speech. At that time there was
a law that the government couldn't spend more than $750 on a car so the Pres
had been riding around in a regular old car. The Secret Service decided he
needed a bullet-proof job and the only one they could lay their mitts on
toute de suite was the one Treasury had confiscated from Al Capone for his tax
liability. When Roosevelt got into the car he asked his driver where the new
car had come from. After hearing the answer the ever quick-witted Roosevelt
said, "I hope Al doesn't mind."
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 8, 2011 - 09:01am PT
At that time there was
a law that the government couldn't spend more than $750 on a car

Lets get that one back on the books!!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 19, 2011 - 07:31am PT
Recently uncovered stash of WWII photos from The Battle of the Bulge

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075565/Vivid-new-Battle-Bulge-photos-offer-seen-look-war-weary-soldiers-braving-frigid-weather-fight-Nazi-Germanys-major-offensive-World-War-II.html?ITO=1490
coz

Gym climber
not sure
Dec 19, 2011 - 09:03am PT
DMT,

I couldn't disagree more strongly, your daughters need to know all the horrors of war, recent and past conflicts.

Certainly you are not suggesting being ignorant of history?

I have made a hobby of reading about the wars, and was recently in Munich, visiting an injured friend, and couldn't help but feel angry towards Germany, and all the violence that generated from that one small country.

My GF, was wondering why I was getting depressed, "I said just looking around here, makes me think of all the horrors, (WW1, WW2, Holocaust) this country has created."

She answered,"what are you talking about, it's beautiful here....What horrors?

Anyway, it's important we know about war, so young people are not ready to throw their life away to appease the mega wealthy, to maim and kill innocent people over oil and resources.

And particularly so you can see people like Fatty, as the clue-less drones they are, confusing religious and regional resource protection as one and the same, and believing in a one true God, who righteously deserves it all. Rather than letting others have their own beliefs and freedoms, their fair share of resorses, etc. We are pulling out of Iraq now simply because the Bush administration, religious crusade to save the Muslims from themselves, has failed, leaving the USA with 1500 dead, and 32,000 wounded, and close to a 1,000,000 dead Iraqis.

So, yes teach your children well, and teach them of the dead, it's the only way war will end. Shed a tear for all the men and women who sacrificed their lives, so they would have hope for a more peaceful world, and not one were the living forget and mitigate their great suffering.



Park Rat

Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2012 - 06:08am PT
It's December 7, Pearl Harbor day.

The 71st anniversary of Pearl Harbor.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 7, 2012 - 07:36am PT
Credit: US Navy

Congressional Medal of Honor
FLAHERTY, FRANCIS C.
Rank and organization: Ensign, U.S. Naval Reserve. Born: 15 March 1919, Charlotte, Mich. Accredited to: Michigan. Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty and extraordinary courage and complete disregard of his own life, above and beyond the call of duty, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. When it was seen that the U.S.S. Oklahoma was going to capsize and the order was given to abandon ship, Ens. Flaherty remained in a turret, holding a flashlight so the remainder of the turret crew could see to escape, thereby sacrificing his own life.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 7, 2012 - 07:45am PT
Interesting. I just got off the phone with my stepfather, 87, brother of Francis Flaherty. I suggested we make a trip to home depot this afternoon for some things he needs. He wondered if they would be open on Dec. 7. It took me a minute to make the connection.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Dec 7, 2012 - 07:46am PT
^Those are great shares, Kris.....thanks.

Uncommon valor.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Dec 7, 2012 - 07:51am PT
Klimmer, flabbergastingly, is absolutely right, Pilgrims.

At the very very highest level, FDR and a few others were fully aware of the Japanese invasion as it was mobilized and approached. Imperial Japan was lead into attacking us by FDR along with his few planners in this. It was a very complicated and long-acting strategy to get us into the war and especially into the european theater to save, frankly, western civilization. It had not been possible to get the public and Congress to budge to engage in yet another world war, especially only twenty years after WWI. Day of Deceit is an excellent research piece on this subject; I highly recommend it. This is not some kind of bullshit hoaxy conspiracy but a very studied and researched position that many military historians have now taken. Too long to go into here; read Robert Stinnett's book.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 7, 2012 - 07:57am PT
This day isnt to debate the start of the WW, but rather to HONOR those that died during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

It was the day a country actually came together to form what would be the most concentrated efforts weve EVER taken on. From citizens to soldiers.
From the ford plant changing gears to make bombers at un believable paces- to all the familys that were under rationing to the thousands upon thousands of young brave men volunteering to crush an aggression.

Weve not since seen such efforts or orchestration...

This day is about those like Ensign Flaherty above..
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:07am PT
WWII was a good cause, but the ones after that were all bad ones, and its true that Americans venerate war and their war heros excessively. I think its essentially a TV sports mentality plus the fact that Americans dont travel much or want to know about other cultures.

I was not convinced by Robert Stinnet's book, and his book follows several others promoting the same theory. It seems to be the grandfather of the JFK assassination conspiracy and the great great grandfather of the idea that 9/11 was an inside job. To prove his point he asks the reader to take his word on various interpretations he makes of codes, but I talked to people at the national archives about it and they say he just doesnt understand the codes.

The worst thing, as it turns out, about pearl harbor and 9/11 is that they gave Americans a sense of entitlement to impose their will everywhere in the world. As I said WWII was a good cause, but the America of today is fighting bad causes and believes itself to be saving everyone else from themselves. Sorry folks but those were your grandparents who did that and you're not the same, in endless ways.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:16am PT
What do you think about the outcome of the cold war?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:20am PT
The cold war? Depends who you ask. If you asked the vietnamese, the American War as they call it, resulted in too many lost land mines.
Borut

Mountain climber
Ljubljana, Slovenia
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:22am PT
Had we not met Russia at Berlin the map of Europe would have looked very different after the war...
Hi Chris.

This is probably not the right place to discuss this, but the American and Soviet troops did not meet in Berlin. They met much more to the West. Berlin was liberated by the Soviets.

Borut
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:31am PT
That depends on your specific definition. Americans were flying freely over Berlin in P51s while British and American aircraft and crews were free to bomb at will. I understand that the Soviets were on the ground, but we were there too. There is a reason Berlin was divided.

Don Paul, I have a Vietnamese friend - he was a business associate for a few years - who escaped the country as a boat person several years after we left. His perspective on the war and its outcome is very interesting, this thread is not the place to argue this subject.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 7, 2012 - 08:51am PT
71 years.... time passes so rapidly.

WE must never forget just how unprepared WE were....and what that cost.

The Men and Women who died that day paid the bill for our weakness.

To honor those who died we must never again be that lame, that weak and that clueless.

Peace
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Dec 7, 2012 - 09:10am PT
My mother's 10th birthday party was interrupted by the news.

My dad was on his way to Japan when the Bomb was dropped. He got lucky, all he had was occupation duty with the 5th Army Air Force. He had a pretty girlfriend over there.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 7, 2012 - 09:18am PT
My Mom was talking recently, about being in Shanghai as the Japanese took it over, the "Little Green Men" scurrying from house to house. She was 10. My Dad got drafted and served in the Pacific as well. So I guess both of my Parents are WW2 vets.

I was disturbed a few years ago, reading about the USS OKLAHOMA. Seems some sailors were entombed there and remained alive for about 2 weeks. No one came for them. They left something scrawled inside the hull as an account. At some point, the "OK" was towed to the United States, it was lost enroute and a touching bit of history lost.

Last I checked, the wreck remains one of the 10 most major unlocated warships of WW2.

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Dec 7, 2012 - 09:56am PT
Dec 7, 1941
My American Mother had returned from England two years earlier on the second ship out after Britain declared war on Sept 3, 1939. The first ship out had been torpedoed with significant loss of life.

WWII was well underway in Europe. In 1940 France fell, England evacuated Dunkirk and then won the Battle of Britain. Hitler then turned east against his ally Russia. By Pearl Harbor, all of continental Europe had fallen to Germany and Italy. The bloodiest battles of the war were underway in Russia from Leningrad to Stalingrad and the Black Sea. Norway and Finland had fallen, although both countries continued a stiff armed resistance throughout the war.

Only Great Britain and Russia remained free and fighting.
My Father (formerly a pacifist) was already a Sub-Lieutenant in the Royal Navy serving as gunnery officer in a destroyer on the convoys to Russia around the NordKapp of Norway.
Midshipman Frederick Glover, RNVR ca 1941
Midshipman Frederick Glover, RNVR ca 1941
Credit: HighTraverse
Sub-Lieutenant Frederick Glover, RNVR, ca 1941
Sub-Lieutenant Frederick Glover, RNVR, ca 1941
Credit: HighTraverse
One of his first ships was a Lend Lease former American WWI destroyer
Lend Lease destroyers delivered to Great Britain.
Lend Lease destroyers delivered to Great Britain.
Credit: HighTraverse
Royal Navy Destroyer Escort in heavy seas
Royal Navy Destroyer Escort in heavy seas
Credit: HighTraverse
Bridge of Royal Navy Destroyer on convoy duty.
Bridge of Royal Navy Destroyer on convoy duty.
Credit: HighTraverse
Lend - Lease destroyers and the exchange of naval bases (why we now have a major base on Diego Garcia) were the best Roosevelt could get out of Congress.
My Grandfather, Grandmother, Aunt and Niece had been re-located from London to rural England along with about a million other non-essentials (to the war effort).
Credit: HighTraverse
John F Kennedy's father was Ambassador to Britain, until his public defeatism in the Battle of Britain caused Roosevelt to recall him.
Meanwhile America fiddled until Pearl Harbor. In those days it required Congress to declare war. As the Constitution requires.
All Europeans, even Germans and Russians, are grateful to America for finally coming to The War.

There is a reason Berlin was divided.
Berlin was divided by the London Treaty of 1944, nearly a year before it was captured by the Russians who then continued further west. The boundary of East/West Germany was approximately along the lines where The "western" ally armies met the Russians. This left Berlin occupied by and completely surrounded by the Russian army. The city was actually divided in July 1945 when the British, French and American armies occupied their sectors.

An interesting animation of the movement of armies in Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_animation_small.gif
Messages 41 - 60 of total 129 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews