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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Ksolem posted:
the only way in or out is through a square hatch on the back of the above deck part of the turret. Sailors in the lower levels had no other exit, and there was no access to the turret and its magazines from inside the ship.
I don't think this is correct - I believe there were watertight doors into the turret's lower levels. It was certainly possible to move projectiles and powder (which for large guns are separate) into the turret from magazines below deck.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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I just read that only two of those main battleships were destroyed, they were actually able to patch up the others... Amazing!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sula is correct as the main magazines are always as far below decks and
amidships as possible and since replenishment of the turret magazines is
theoretically necessary in a long engagement so it wouldn't make much sense
to have to move powder and projectiles from below to the main deck only to
take it back down to the nether world of the turrets. ;-)
Hard to imagine being down there in an actual engagement.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Reilly, on the Iowa Class BB's each turret had it's own magazine four decks down for #'s 1&3 and Five decks down for #2. The entire gun structure below decks was surrounded by 15" armor, this protected by the ship's side and deck armor. When the USS Missouri was decommissioned the projectile count was: Turret #1, 387; #2: 456; #3: 357.
Oh, it was the Iowa, in Long Beach I toured, not Wisconsin. Turret #2 is sealed, the grave site of 40 or so men who were incinerated in a terrible accident. While I was reading the memorial plaque, located right next to the hatch, a docent walked up. I asked him if that was the way in and out. He said yes, when the turret was fully crewed all 76 men entered and left through this hatch. He went on to say there's a larger crane operated hatch on the other side for passing parts and so forth. Both of these hatches are on the back of the turret.
This account, given by a survivor of the Iowa disaster describes how he and several others had to move up through the levels of the turret, through scenes of awful destruction, to exit onto the deck.
So each turret is entirely self sufficient for ammunition. There are no other magazines on board. And it is my understanding that there was one way in and out.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I just had to stick with this 'till I found the answer. My docent buddy on the Iowa was blowin' smoke.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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worthy bump....... 76 years ago the sneaky INJ was steaming Eastward, hell bent on world domination.
The short term gain lead to a total annihilation of that nation.
Big blunder.
have we learned anything in the last 76 years?
The last survivors are quickly disappearing, I do have a 48 star flag that a old girlfriend had. It belonged to her Grand Ma....It was Uncle Bob who died.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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and to think they turned on us after we'd helped them take china...
Please explain.....
I think you are incorrect kind sir.... HOW did we help them?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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guyman, it seems xCon is not answering. His observation is vague, to say the least.
Here I have a book which I prize, given to me by the sister of Muriel Matson, one of the Punahou HS class of '52 whose Pearl Harbor Day story appears below.
I include only two of the stories. I wish I could summon the energy to scan more. Maybe I'll save them for next year.
Fossil Climber, I loved your tale of rabbit raising.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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My father had joined the Marines before the war started and was stationed in Pearl when the attack happened; he ended up fighting all over the Pacific. He was a radio operator so avoided most of the nasty stuff, but refused to talk about his experiences; the only thing he told us was it was awful to be strafed. He hated fireworks. After his discharge in the Pacific he returned to New Zealand, where he had met my mother while on leave; he told her if he lived he'd be back and here I and my brothers are. He made a map tracing all the places he'd been in the Pacific during the war.
He was going to be in Washington in 2008 with a (small) group of other surviving Pearl Harbor soldiers for a memorial, but unfortunately fell off a ladder in his garage and landed on his back/head on the concrete floor, which was fatal.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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xCon, your points are taken and deserve cred.
However, I don't think this is the right venue to begin a debate on the policies that led up to the attack, so please don't.
Thank you.
And Winemaker, we're sure glad you're lucky to be here, too, as are we all!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Winemaker.... Your dad got around.
Be proud, he lived through the hell on earth that was the Pacific War.
Those Marines, and there was not a lot of them, paid a big price for all of US.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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I hope this isn't boring people, but I was just re-reading the history my father included along with the map and thought some of you might be interested. He was in some of the most intense fighting in the Pacific, including Guadalcanal. Here is a short excerpt from his writing, with names partially blocked for privacy. They were the great generation.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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And Tad, thanks for that illuminating photo.
I never did understand the situation vis-a-vis the ship's alignment/position with the memorial; but, man oh man, that's as clear as...Plexiglas.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Winemaker..... not boring at all.
TFPU.
My Father-in-Law, Big Bill Seeley, was drafted into the Army in 1940. He was trained in Artillery but ended up in New Guinea. His small unit worked with the natives, teaching them how to work Japanese firearms. Then they paid these bad ass headhunters for Japanese Ears.... in cash and stuff.
He would talk about what went down. Mostly nothing was his report. He says he shot his rifle very rarely and his most scared moment was when a giant spider jumped on his face. He said in the four years he was in NG he never got leave and almost never got "real food" or a Movie or a beer or anything.
When he was discharged in Sept 45, in San Francisco, his biggest shock was that a hamburger cost $.25!
Bill and I got along just fine but I was never able to get him out camping..... he just told me. "I don't need to do that anymore"
He passed away in 1986. I do miss him.
When I was young I never had any appreciation for these men/women, Vietnam had soured me and caused me to hate almost everything military. I now realize that without the sacrifices they made we would be in a completely different world. I also realize that I was full of sh%T back then.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Pearl Harbor was a tragedy and a significant event for the US, though I always felt like it was overhyped compared to greater sacrifices made after the war started. Guy mentioned the Marines in the Pacific. Absolute hell for those guys, and it was wasn't a surprise attack. Peleliu, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Wake Island, etc. Most of them had plenty of time to think about what a horror show they were wading into, and they did it anyways. And then there was Europe...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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A toast to Eugene Sledge, USMC, and his companions--Peleliu and Okinawa.
3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division (K/3/5)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I posted about my Step Dad's brother, my uncle by proxy, back in the 2011 anniversary. Time to bring him back into the thread.
His Congressional Medal of Honor citation:
"For conspicuous devotion to duty and extraordinary courage and complete disregard of his own life, above and beyond the call of duty, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. When it was seen that the U.S.S. Oklahoma was going to capsize and the order was given to abandon ship, Ens. Flaherty remained in a turret, holding a flashlight so the remainder of the turret crew could see to escape, thereby sacrificing his own life."
In 1943 an Edsall class Destroyer Escort, a ship designed for anti submarine warfare, was commissioned with the name USS Flaherty. At the very end of the war with Germany, a time when any more loss of life on the sea was useless, Flaherty and a sister ship were on patrol off the coast of Greenland. U-Boats made their way through these waters on their way south to attack American shipping. Flaherty's sister ship was torpedoed and sank. They picked up three of the crew and went hunting for the U-Boat. After a lengthy pursuit they found her with sonar, attacked with depth charges, and forced the damaged sub to surface where she was summarily torn apart with gunfire.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Wow... thanks for the remembrance. True heroism can happen with a flashligh in hand as well as a gun.
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