Pearl Harbor remembered 70th anniversary!

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Park Rat

Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 7, 2011 - 07:38am PT
The beginning of World War II for America.

I was born nine months after Pearl Harbor.

It amazes me how much the world has changed in the last 70 years.

Our old enemies are now some of our best friends.

I doubt that any one would've guessed that outcome on December 7, 1941.



I love this picture. So WWII
I love this picture. So WWII
Credit: Park Rat


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt13c3olXkU The Attack
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:43am PT
Just one of the amazing events that brought our nation to it's feet...when men, women and children united for a singular cause and saved the world from unspeakable tyranny.

Props to the Greatest Generation.....and may the souls lost at Pearl Harbor forever rest in peace......
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:43am PT
How much evidence exists that we knew about the impending attacks before they happened?

The evidence exists. Books have been written.


We should look into the evidence.


Should we have gotten into WW2? Of course we should have. Did we have to get in that way? No.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:55am PT
I did a bit of work in Honolulu over the last decade and frequently stayed at the hotel attached to the Ala Moana shopping center, as they offered good business rates and it was away from the crush of Waikiki. Very convenient.

Lots of other business folk there, such as the cast and crew of Lost.

Anyway, a few years back I was there in early December and the hotel hosted the Dec. 7 bombing vets convention. I recall a lot of press in the papers about them, their dwindling numbers, etc. They were old guys of course, some spry, many infirm. I could tell their ranks were greatly thinned.

I read that this year is likely their last reunion - there are too few of them left, in too poor health, to make it a viable gathering anymore.

I chatted with several guys I randomly encountered, in the lobby, in the elevators. Nothing weighty, worldly or gushy - more 'howyadoin?' kind of stuff. Not disrespectful but its not my way to probe people about ancient battles and such. I treated them with the same deference and respect I try to show to any senior citizen.

They were kids really, when it all happened. No different than me, when I was 18. They did their jobs as best they could. They lived while others died and I was glad to see them gathering to remind themselves it had all been real.

DMT
gunsmoke

Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:18am PT
"A date which will live in infamy" is rapidly fading from culture. Although this will be the last major anniversary for most of those vets of WWII that remain (and there are still tens of thousands), Google has no acknowledgment in today's Google logo. This thread is gaining barely one post per hour. WWII is becoming merely history now, as is WWI. One wonders if 9-11 was the end of December 7.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:33am PT
Jeezus Klimmer. NO ONE new EVERYTHING bout ANYTHING and they never have or will...Let your 12-7 theories rest..

This day long ago, set in motion the greatest generation of cooperation and focus that this country has ever seen. It propelled us into "super systems" of production the world had never seen. It wanst just about soldiers sailors and airmen, it was the WHOLE country. Car manufacturers turned their factory's into bomber making plants producing a bomber every few hours at one point! Food stamp rationing, gas rationing, silk etc etc! It was an orchestration of a magnitude never seen before or since...Thats why they ARE the greatest generation!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:49am PT
Yo, Klim, there was evidence that it was coming but generals don't get to be
generals by being proactive and sticking their necks out. Besides, while it
was a tactical victory for the Japs it was a strategic loss by their missing
the carriers and awakening the giant. Yes, the loss of 2400 souls hurt but,
not to downplay it, that was the reaper's count in the first 30 minutes at Tarawa.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:53am PT
HINDSIGHT is ALWAYS 20/20.....pppffffft.


monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:59am PT
Even if we were prepared, and no ships sunk, it would still have been war.

The idea that we needed to suffer a huge loss to get us into the war is stupid.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:03pm PT
There was NEVER a "PLAN" to suffer a huge loss to get us into that war...
monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:06pm PT
I agree, not even a need for such a plan. Thats why the conspiracy droids like Klimmer are not very bright.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:08pm PT
doh!~ Gotcha....;-)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
Sure there was plenty of evidence that the Japanese were planning to do something. Hawaii was certainly a possible target. There apparently were warnings of various degree of reliability for San-Francisco, Seattle, Alaska and other places.

Each took defensive steps. Pearl and the Airbase took steps (unfortunately some couter-productive ones) Japan declaring war was not a surprise at all.

The exact method they used WAS a surprise to both US and the Japanese. It did not go down exactly as planned.

My next door neighbor was 14 living on Oahu the day it happened. She remembers the Zeros flying over and the explosions and smoke she could see. The men rushing from homes getting in cars and going to the battle.

WWII marked the only time in modern history that this nation tapped its full economic potential. Take a look at the numbers sometime. The change in output is truly mindboggling. Ever since I saw the details what we did 70 years ago I have had the feeling that any economic problem this nation has is fairly artificial.


gimmeslack

Trad climber
VA
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
I figure we'll be buying Iraqi cars in 50 years. How cool is that!
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
I biked by the Arizona Memorial entrance this AM on my way to work. Looks like a pretty big gathering. Some of my students live on Ford Island so they cant make it to school till after the ceremony cuz the bridge just closed.

I remember being in the USN for the 50th, and now I teach down the road about a mile from PH. More and more we are seeing a video of the survivors but almost daily at the memorial there is a survivor taking questions and sharing stories. Those guys are pretty entertaining.

What can you say, they answered the call.

Aloha,
will
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Dec 7, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
Credit: guido
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 7, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
Article, video, and book written regarding the truth of Pearl Harbor . . .

Facts are hard to ignore.


http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.htm


There is another book available at Amazon.com that also goes into great detail on the truth of Pearl Harbor.

Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor [Paperback]
Robert Stinnett (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299



That is one of the reasons PNAC said "We need a New Pearl Harbor."

And then 9-11-2001 happened.

LIHOP or MIHOP, or both LIHOP & MIHOP together. Take your pick.



"War is a Racket." -- General Smedley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes." -- General Smedley





It was right to be involved in WW2. But we didn't have to get involved through Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor shouldn't have happened.


Edit:

We remember those who are lost to us best, by mourning their deaths, and telling the truth of what happened, in hopes that it won't happen again.

The soldiers lives that were lost on Dec. 7th, 1941, the soldiers were not at fault. They all did their duty. They're not responsible for the Chain of Command lying and allowing this to happen, treating life as expendable.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
Dec 7, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
You really have to do this to a MEMORIAL THREAD Klim? Your "theories" are all well and good (sorta) but there's a time and PLACE for them. This aint that....
Captain...or Skully

climber
Where are you bound?
Dec 7, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
It's a solemn thing to sail past the Arizona.....You feel it every time, too.
Gene

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
Just got off the phone with Dad who told me that he and his roommate who later was a pilot at Midway and other Pacific campaigns - were in the Naval Academy photo lab developing pictures for the yearbook when the radio went silent for a while before the announcement of the attack. The Class of 1942 graduated December 19, 1941. He told me that their studies and training had been accelerated for about a year prior to 12/7/41 in anticipation of war. The war in Europe had been going on for over two years at that point. He was 20 years old at the start of US involvement in WWII and 24 at the end. He and his classmates were KIDS!! A HUGE salute to all those who served on the land, on the sea, in the air and to those who kept the home fires burning. What they did was incredible. The aggression of the Nazis, Fascists, and Empire of Japan caused the deaths of 60 to 80 MILLION.

Taco Heads - Post up photos of Dads, Uncles, Grandpas, Moms, Aunts, Grandmas who served in WWII.

Credit: Gene
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