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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 7, 2011 - 07:38am PT
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The beginning of World War II for America.
I was born nine months after Pearl Harbor.
It amazes me how much the world has changed in the last 70 years.
Our old enemies are now some of our best friends.
I doubt that any one would've guessed that outcome on December 7, 1941.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt13c3olXkU The Attack
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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How much evidence exists that we knew about the impending attacks before they happened?
The evidence exists. Books have been written.
We should look into the evidence.
Should we have gotten into WW2? Of course we should have. Did we have to get in that way? No.
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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"A date which will live in infamy" is rapidly fading from culture. Although this will be the last major anniversary for most of those vets of WWII that remain (and there are still tens of thousands), Google has no acknowledgment in today's Google logo. This thread is gaining barely one post per hour. WWII is becoming merely history now, as is WWI. One wonders if 9-11 was the end of December 7.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Yo, Klim, there was evidence that it was coming but generals don't get to be
generals by being proactive and sticking their necks out. Besides, while it
was a tactical victory for the Japs it was a strategic loss by their missing
the carriers and awakening the giant. Yes, the loss of 2400 souls hurt but,
not to downplay it, that was the reaper's count in the first 30 minutes at Tarawa.
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monolith
climber
berzerkly
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Even if we were prepared, and no ships sunk, it would still have been war.
The idea that we needed to suffer a huge loss to get us into the war is stupid.
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monolith
climber
berzerkly
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I agree, not even a need for such a plan. Thats why the conspiracy droids like Klimmer are not very bright.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Sure there was plenty of evidence that the Japanese were planning to do something. Hawaii was certainly a possible target. There apparently were warnings of various degree of reliability for San-Francisco, Seattle, Alaska and other places.
Each took defensive steps. Pearl and the Airbase took steps (unfortunately some couter-productive ones) Japan declaring war was not a surprise at all.
The exact method they used WAS a surprise to both US and the Japanese. It did not go down exactly as planned.
My next door neighbor was 14 living on Oahu the day it happened. She remembers the Zeros flying over and the explosions and smoke she could see. The men rushing from homes getting in cars and going to the battle.
WWII marked the only time in modern history that this nation tapped its full economic potential. Take a look at the numbers sometime. The change in output is truly mindboggling. Ever since I saw the details what we did 70 years ago I have had the feeling that any economic problem this nation has is fairly artificial.
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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I figure we'll be buying Iraqi cars in 50 years. How cool is that!
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Nohea
Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
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I biked by the Arizona Memorial entrance this AM on my way to work. Looks like a pretty big gathering. Some of my students live on Ford Island so they cant make it to school till after the ceremony cuz the bridge just closed.
I remember being in the USN for the 50th, and now I teach down the road about a mile from PH. More and more we are seeing a video of the survivors but almost daily at the memorial there is a survivor taking questions and sharing stories. Those guys are pretty entertaining.
What can you say, they answered the call.
Aloha,
will
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Article, video, and book written regarding the truth of Pearl Harbor . . .
Facts are hard to ignore.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.htm
There is another book available at Amazon.com that also goes into great detail on the truth of Pearl Harbor.
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor [Paperback]
Robert Stinnett (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299
That is one of the reasons PNAC said "We need a New Pearl Harbor."
And then 9-11-2001 happened.
LIHOP or MIHOP, or both LIHOP & MIHOP together. Take your pick.
"War is a Racket." -- General Smedley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes." -- General Smedley
It was right to be involved in WW2. But we didn't have to get involved through Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor shouldn't have happened.
Edit:
We remember those who are lost to us best, by mourning their deaths, and telling the truth of what happened, in hopes that it won't happen again.
The soldiers lives that were lost on Dec. 7th, 1941, the soldiers were not at fault. They all did their duty. They're not responsible for the Chain of Command lying and allowing this to happen, treating life as expendable.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Where are you bound?
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It's a solemn thing to sail past the Arizona.....You feel it every time, too.
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Gene
climber
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Just got off the phone with Dad who told me that he and his roommate – who later was a pilot at Midway and other Pacific campaigns - were in the Naval Academy photo lab developing pictures for the yearbook when the radio went silent for a while before the announcement of the attack. The Class of 1942 graduated December 19, 1941. He told me that their studies and training had been accelerated for about a year prior to 12/7/41 in anticipation of war. The war in Europe had been going on for over two years at that point. He was 20 years old at the start of US involvement in WWII and 24 at the end. He and his classmates were KIDS!! A HUGE salute to all those who served on the land, on the sea, in the air and to those who kept the home fires burning. What they did was incredible. The aggression of the Nazis, Fascists, and Empire of Japan caused the deaths of 60 to 80 MILLION.
Taco Heads - Post up photos of Dads, Uncles, Grandpas, Moms, Aunts, Grandmas who served in WWII.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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My dad (and some other dads) on his way to the Guadalcanal mudbath.
This was the cover of a Life magazine which I have.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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My stepfather's brother - I guess I could call him my stepuncle - was aboard the USS Oklahoma for the attack.
Congressional Medal of Honor
FLAHERTY, FRANCIS C.
Rank and organization: Ensign, U.S. Naval Reserve. Born: 15 March 1919, Charlotte, Mich. Accredited to: Michigan. Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty and extraordinary courage and complete disregard of his own life, above and beyond the call of duty, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. When it was seen that the U.S.S. Oklahoma was going to capsize and the order was given to abandon ship, Ens. Flaherty remained in a turret, holding a flashlight so the remainder of the turret crew could see to escape, thereby sacrificing his own life.
Every so often I end up on this site to read a few more of the citations. You can scroll down and select WWII. You might want to have a tissue handy... http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html
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Gene
climber
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Good. While its important to remember the sacrifice of our fathers and grandfathers its also important to put war behind us and not turn a battle into a religious relic, a 70 year old event into the next call to arms.
Bravo!!!! Couldn't agree more. My observation is that most surviving vets hate war and who should know better?
g
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Enormous thanks to those who served and those that gave their lives...
I'll never forget them.
scott
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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The Shaw, the Oklahoma, the Arizona. A proud sacrifice by Francis Flaherty.
I love the pinup girls in Park Rat's photo - the girls these days are a lot slimmer, thank goodness.
If you are ever in Hawai'i, don't miss visiting the USS Arizona memorial.
The Japanese have sometimes contended that it was a mistake regarding the International Date Line that resulted in the sneak attack, prior to declaration of war. Is there any veracity to this?
Thanks to all who served, including my dad and all three uncles.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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My dad served on a carrier at the tail end of the pacific campaign, he turned 18 in February of 1945.
His older brother wasn't so lucky, his trip to Iwo Jima was one way.
Hail, Robert E, Pvt, KIA, 28th Marines, USMC
I'd never made the connection until doing some Iwo googling, but my uncle was killed shortly before my fathers 18th birthday.
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