Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 10, 2011 - 11:40am PT
|
There has been a lot of discussion on ST about belay anchors but little concerning rap anchors. I wondered why, and then it came to me. Folks here put in a lot of their own belay anchors but they don't place many rap anchors because the places where they climb usually have fixed rap stations.
I still do quite a bit of exploratory climbing so I end up setting up a lot of my own raps- been doing it for years. Maybe that's why I am so much more obsessed with rap anchors than I am with belay anchors. Bottom line: good rap anchors are MUCH more critical to a lengthy career than are belay anchors. They also are usually more problematic in their construction often because of the circumstances that lead to rappelling. Addtionally, great care needs to be exercised even where there are existing rappel stations.
Trying to move discussion into a new area. Things to keep in mind:
* Rap anchors are always weighted and failure is always catastrophic.
* Climbers (this amazes me) tend to be overly frugal about leaving gear behind. I see climbers who obsess about belay anchors rappel from marginal anchors because they don't want to loose gear. How much is your life worth?
* Seek out natural anchors first. Trees, rock horns and chockstones can provide safe, quick anchors. The same applies for belay anchors.
* Rappels are often set up under less than ideal conditions. Retreating because of a sudden storm is a common occurrence. Setting good anchors while dealing with cold, wet, windy conditions is no easy matter. There have been a number of times where I have had to deal with placing safe anchors in icy cracks while fighting hypothermia-inducing weather conditions. Be vigilant, be tough. Momentary discomfort is a small price to pay when your life is at stake.
* Care must always be exercised when rapping into unknown territory looking for the next anchors. Don't try to stretch the rappel too far.
* Think about retrieval of the ropes before you both rappel. Try pulling your ropes while one climber is still at the rap station. Make sure the last person has the knot in a good place. It is often best to pull the thinner rope (tag line). This may be more strenuous but the thicker rope is less likely to get hung up.
* Care should be exercised when throwing ropes in windy conditions. In extreme conditions letting the ropes out gradually from your pack while rapping, while time consuming, this may be your best option. Also, sometimes rapping with one rope may be best.
* Always know where the ends of the rope are. I don't like knotting the ends when I know there is a ledge that can be safely reached. I do knot the ends when I'm not sure where the stance is. I only have prusiks on the ropes when I can't be sure that I can get a decent stance.
* Exercise care when doing diagonal rappels. Too much of an angle can result in a disastrous pendulum.
*** Most importantly, always be confident that your rappel anchors, whether pre-existing or placed by you, are BOMBER. Rapping from less than ideal anchors in order to save a few bucks is a zero sum game. Experience will make you a better judge, err on the side of safety early on.
*** You may be tired, you may be cold but your mantra until you reach terra firma should be VIGILANCE! VIGILANCE! VIGILANCE!
Other ideas welcome!
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:45am PT
|
Good post Jim!
You speak with much experience. Just happen to be taking a lunch break and read this. Hope everything is going well!
|
|
TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:52am PT
|
Amen: The climb is not over till your back at the road/car or camp.
VIGILANCE! VIGILANCE! <- being the opposite of complacency
Definition of COMPLACENCY
1: self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies
2: an instance of usually unaware or uninformed self-satisfaction
|
|
Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:54am PT
|
Excellent review of the subject: everyone should take note.
When conditions are bad is the alert signal to pay extra close attention. So many people panic and are more apt to make mistakes in the set-up. There isn't much room for error in rappelling.
I personally like having a prusix loop to back up the brake, especially when I'm ice climbing, coming down on wet 8.2mm ropes. When those babies are wet and icy, it's hard to maintain speed control unless you wrap it around your thigh. Overcautious, I guess, but I tie a knot in the ends and use a prusix anytime I rappel.
Bump this a lot.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:55am PT
|
Bollards rool! Although prolly not so much these days since nobody
uses 1" webbing. A little scarier with that skinny shiz.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:57am PT
|
I don't go for pledges.
|
|
wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:59am PT
|
Great, helpful post and master class, Mr. Donini, sir.
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 11:59am PT
|
Perhaps this thread just might save some poor suckers life. One never knows when something read previously, may pop into the consciousness when sorely needed.
That warning of extreme tension traversing while rappelling was a good one. I suspect Jim did that on some Alpine climb.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
|
Thanks for a fantastic (really) Thread. Much help for us new ones....and reminders for the long time climber.
It does amaze me that people will literally climb with risk for fear of having to leave some gear behind. Thanks for pointing that out. Cheers, Lynne
PS, I am printing this off and taking it to work.
|
|
Mikemcee
Social climber
Mill Valley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
|
Hey Jim, although I am often amused by your salty mussings here, I think your contributions hold tremendous value. This and the Multi Pitch Muddles thread are 2 of the most informative threads on the Taco. Thanks.
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
|
Jim,
I just posted this on a New England climbing forum, since I thought it was such a good thread. I have often shared your thoughts on this one.
|
|
ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
|
- Carry at least a squeeze light in your pocket when you get off the deck in unknown terrain.
Unexpected rappel descent in the dark involving a free-hanging rappel in pitch darkness and ending with a fixed single line over an overhang with another free-hanging rappel off the end of the rope to a free-fall to the ground. Good stuff that would not have been possible without my squeeze light.
|
|
Gearhead
Trad climber
Novato Ca
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
|
I've climbed with alot of partners who are super vigalante about belay anchors and pro, but are careless when it comes to rappelling. I'm really anal about raps. I'm going to give Jims post to some of my friends.
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
|
Great thread, rapelling still scares the crap out of me. I had a near miss early in my climbing career when a group of 4 of us decided to climb a few pitches on the base of el-cap. I was the leader of the tribe, and assumed that some of the other climbers were more experienced enough to help the least experience set up to rap. I noticed the least experienced member looked really awkward rappelling, and I was terrified to see why when she got to the base of the climb. Instead of being clipped into the belay loop, she was clipped into a gear loop! I'm still haunted by that image 20 years later of what could have happened. So make sure that not only your anchors are double checked, double check your partners.
Also to re-iterate why rappelling is so dangerous, it is done when you are your most fatigued, sometimes due to an injury, sometimes due to being forced off due to bad weather, or not being up to a route, or running out of daylight. You're engaging in the potentially most dangerous activity a climber participates in, when you are the least physically and mentally armed.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
|
Amen to the idea of just leaving stuff behind if you need a safe rap anchor! Often, an inexpensive nut will be bomber. And I am surprised by how many climbers now climb with only sewn runners. It's nice to have a knotted runner or two in case that in situ sling is complete tat.
The Boston climber Dan Nguyen many years ago showed me a simple trick that is very useful when rapelling: clip a sling or quickdraw to your harness and to one of the rope strands, above the rappel device. Then when you get where-ever you're going, it's not just "pull red" it's "pull red on the left". This trick prevents the dreaded "the ropes are twisted and can't pull and don't know which way to twist to unwind".
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 01:03pm PT
|
Was somewhat mentioned in Donini's OP.
If rapping into unfamiliar ground or places not generally rapped I'm big on a single line rap for the first one down. With the proper gear needed to ascend if you pass a good anchor spot hoping to get a full length rap.
IE ahh... thats a nice tree to rap from but I'm only half-way to the end.. bet there's something good down there... oops nadda.. better go back up.
Or even worse and one I've definately run into.... damn that isn't going where I want at all.. better go back up and find a better place to rap from altogether.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
|
* Think about retrieval of the ropes before you both rappel. Try pulling your ropes while one climber is still at the rap station. Make sure the last person has the knot in a good place.
You can add to this the old 'last rappeler moves the knot' trick! If there's an obvious constriction or possible knot catching spot the last person can rappel 'unevenly'. By this I mean they pull more on the knot side of the rope and move the knot down a little with each step. I've never tried this with ropes of the same diameter and don't think it would work well there, but if you've got two different diameters it's easy to pull on the thicker rope (knot must be on that side of the rappel) and move the knot. This is also useful to help minimize the kitty litter that the knot will travel through when pulling the rope.
|
|
corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
|
If yer pard ever suggests making a "giant snow bollard" to rap from be sure to use his rope and that its the last time you'll need it because chances are you will not be able to pull it due to the near infinite friction of such a large surface area.
A deadman might be the better solution made from the least expensive piece of gear you have. -stuff sack filled with snow buried deep..
|
|
sempervirens
climber
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
|
I had thought the thicker rope was more likely to get stuck. So I'd pull it rather than the thinner line. Why is the thinner line more likely to get stuck?
With the prussik while on rappel,... this is a dumb question but I'm not getting something, ... are we talking when rappeling a single line? If not, is the prussik around both lines?
Or one prusik on each line?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
|
The thinner line is more pliant and has much more of a tendency to catch around flakes and in cracks, also more prone to be blown around by wind. I actually never have a prusik on the rope when rapping but might have one handy if I rap too far and need to get back up a bit. Good questions.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!