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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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If it gets stuck while you are rapping can't you just untie from the haul line and get back to it later. Worse scenario you would have to rap your lead line while clipped into the haul line to get to the bag?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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In specific, well thought out situations it would work but I'll bet that 99% of the time it's faster to do it the conventional way. If you're out at Beacon Rock, soloing a two pitch route, sure, go ahead but if you're on El Cap and and not speed soloing, well, you're gonna die.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Okay, we're getting a bit away from Josh's initial request.
Here is what I do when I arrive at an anchor.
• I carry a "belay kit" of three large locking biners that I use for the bolts (see my reasons above) and I clip into them with my daisies. I use two Metolius Easy Daisies and I'm not worried about me falling off the anchor and them breaking (I usually still have my solo belay device on the rope).
• I tie up an anchor on two bolts as shown above with the lead rope.
• I use a tag bag so I grab my mini-trax and haul it up to the anchor using the old 1:1 hauling method with my foot, always following my axiom of if you're manhandling something, you're fugging up.
• The tag bag arrives at the anchor with the top of the haul line so I set up my rappel anchor with it (shown above).
• I put the excess lead line in its rope bag so that the anchor is nice and neat.
• The tag bag is hanging from its Fifi Hook so I safety it with the "slippery knot".
See this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwWnye2RxbI
• Rap the haul line down to the lower anchor (I never pull the excess of the haul line up at this point).
(BTW: dangling on the rope heading down to the prior anchor is going to provide you with some of the most unique moments of the climb. Hanging far out from the wall and miles above the ground is the perfect time to fish a snack bar out of your pocket and eat it, spin around and wave to Tom, take a photo or a vid of yourself, or, if you have your phone, call your wife, or your Mom and tell them what a cool spot you're in and how much fun you're having and tell them that yes, you're being safe. If you have a smart phone you could even take a vid and post it to your Facebook page!)
This is what the lower anchor usually looks like when I get there. It's nice and neat and therefore easy to take apart and get going.
• Get onto the anchor and grab the empty haul line rope bag and clip it to my harness.
• Tighten up the haul line and release the bags.
• Tie a knot into the end of the lead line and clip it to my harness belay loop with a locker.
• Get my jugs on the line, pump out the slack and get on them.
• Take apart the anchor and start cleaning.
• Upon arriving to the top anchor I shed the gear sling, get attached to the anchor and stuff the remainder of the lead line into its rope bag.
• I set up the anchor with the lead line so that its ready to go when I finish hauling.
• Haul, stuffing the haul line into its rope bag as I go.
• The bags arrive at the anchor, I dock them each to their own bolt, organize the rack, put my Grigri on the lead rope, make one move out and then turn back to the anchor and study it to see if I've made any mistakes.
• Head out on the lead, having a ton of fun and fully appreciating where I am and what I am doing!
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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If the pitch is traversing, and you are rapping your haul line with a gri-gri. leave a bit of slack in it so that you can rap down all the way and then pull yourself over to the belay.
If you pull up all the slack and try to rap, you will have no slack to release your gri-gri and will have to strap on your jugs to pull yourself over to the belay inches at a time. Ask me why i know this...
All of that can be forgotten if you rap with an ATC, you can pull yourself over and lower at the same time, but you don't have the security of being able to stop halfway and let go with your hand to take pics, clean certain gear, or just wanna stop halfway and enjoy the view.
Bottom line is if you rap back down a traversing pitch with a gri-gri, don't pull up all the slack or you will be cursing yourself.
Cheers.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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That there was the last time I ever used a cordalette also.
Because it compressed into a finite speck of infinite mass? Yeah, mine too. It's still tied into a knot after hauling on Lurking Fear in 1999. I now use it to pull stumps out with the tractor.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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As long as you climb [boring overbolted] trade routes, you probably won't need a cordelette. I am amazed how talented climbers can continue to waste their time on boring trade routes when there are Real Adventures to be had elsewhere. Once you get off the beaten track, and have to build big wall hauling anchors using natural and marginal gear, you will be glad you have them. Sometimes you will need to build "science project" belays, because the bolts are old or the cracks are poor. I have had to do this more times than I can count.
Make your big wall cordelettes out of 7mm cord, not six. Remember that 7mm cord is nowhere near as strong as a sewn sling, so use slings wherever you can, like on [boring overbolted] places like shown above.
Once you have hauled on your cordelette, you can remove the tightened knot by placing it against a smooth part of the wall, and gently tapping the knot with your hammer, while rotating the knot and loosening it. This will always work on 7mm cord, no matter how big a load you hauled, with a bit of patience and persistence.
Double tagging - a method of hauling a partial load up while you rappel down to clean the pitch - does indeed work. It is scary, because you have a load about half your weight sitting on a fifi while you lead. Since using it on the wall, I invented the slippery overhand backup which Mark has described and photographed well in various posts, which makes double tagging seem a bit less scary. But you still need to carry a third rope, and an extra hauling device, and in my opinion it is not worth the extra time, bother, clusterf*#k and fear that it requires. You really only want to use it on steep pitches where your partial load won't hang up.
Here's a drawing of how it works:
Looks complicated, eh? Well, IT IS. If you take a fall, and somehow knock the secondary load off its fifi, you will find it and yourself hurtling towards earth and an unpredictable finish. This system is for experts only, and is emphatically a DFU [Don't Blow It] system.
And there is only one "s" in "prusik", dammit!
And furthermore, there is NO NEED EVER for a figure eight on a bight in big wall climbing! If you attach your pig this way, you are a wanker. Attach your pig with a butterfly EVERY TIME. It is both stronger and easier to untie than a figure 8 on a bight. When you tie your pig onto your haul line, tie it "where it is" using a butterfly. If the pitch is 150' long, and your haul line is 200', then you will have 50' of spare rope. If you need to lower out your pig, your excess haul line is your lower-out line. If you don't need a lower-out line, attach the haul line bag to your pig and let it fly. Remember, attach your rope bag ABOVE the swivel! Otherwise, as your bag spins, you will get a nasty clusterf*#k around your swivel.
Fix your lead rope for jugging with a butterly, knott a figure of 8 on a bight. Even if you are attaching your pig at the very end of the haul line, it is still better to use a butterfly say a foot or so from the end. Much easier to untie than a figure of 8. The one and only place I use a figure of 8 knot is when I tie into the end of a rope when leading, and having an assisted belay from a partner. Of course, if you are solilng, you will never be tied into the end of your rope. Accordingly, when soloing, you should always have THREE adjustable daisy chains for crawling around the anchor. These things will not hold factor 2 falls, so be careful if you're not tied in. Consider a full-strength daisy when soloing.
Maybe Jim Bridwell can't learn how to tie a butterfly, but YOU CAN.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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If all goes as planned I don't think there is a problem with rapping while the teeth are engaged. I can't say I wouldn't do it but I think I'd work on a way to avoid it.
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JSpencerV
Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Wow, thanks for all of the good information, step by step descriptions, videos and pics. I've got a lot to learn! Now time to get out there and put it in action!
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oli warlow
Trad climber
U.K.
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Nov 24, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
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Perhaps a bit late to reply to this topic, but I was just thinking about the use of butterfly knots and the lead rope to create an equalized belay. I can see it makes good sense when soloing a wall as you are never tied into the end of the rope anyway. The only issue I could envisage is effectively shortening your rope by around 5-8m when leading a pitch.
The issue I was wondering about is if you are leading in blocks. Surely this would mean that both climber will have to untie from the rope at each belay and swap ends because the rope cannot be simply re-flaked. Is this just something that you have to cope with using this system? I guess if you are triple-checking everything then mistakes 'should not' be made...
Oli
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 24, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
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I used a solo counter hauling system beginning with an 11 day solo in 1976.
I hung the bag on a fifi and piled the rope in the top to feed out. (Can't let the wind pull the rope enough to snap the pig loose!)
I rapped a 9mm while hauling with a 7 or 8.
When it worked it was great.
When the bag hung up you had trouble.
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oli warlow
Trad climber
U.K.
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Nov 24, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
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also I would assume if you were short fixing it would not be possible to include the lead rope in the belay?
O
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Ogden, Utah
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Sep 19, 2014 - 12:27am PT
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I wrote some tips about soloing walls for a friend a few years ago and figured I'd share it here:
Solo systems for climbing Big Walls
Belay Anchors:
Setting up an your anchor at the belay is very important that you do it correctly. The main issue is once you leave the belay, it will be unattended and it will be hard to see what’s going on. As you feed slack through your solo device while leading, the carabiners at the belay will get tension and then slack, constantly. The one thing you don’t want is loose carabiners, ones that will be able to rotate at the bolts or natural pro.
To avoid this you must create a tensioned belay system in an upward directional pull. Clip locking carabiners and use slings or a cordelette, the same way you would equalize a power-point with a partner. Now, pull the power point upward and clip a clove-hitch to the first available protection above the power-point and anchor, a rivet or bolt works best but a good cam or nut works, as well (make sure that it won’t fail or it will defeat the purpose of this system). Tighten the clove-hitch so that it tensions the carabiners so they don’t shift. Sometimes it’s good to reroute your rope down to a carabiner that is clipped to your haulbag, so that if you fall, the haulbag takes some of the force.
Leading:
So, one end of the rope is anchored to the belay and the other end is tied to your harness. NEVER, let the rope just dangle in the air. This has caused at least one person to be stranded on the cliff in the middle of a pitch, without the lead rope. Once you get half way through your rope, it has a tendency to feed automatically because the weight of the first half of the rope pulls it through your solo device, depending on what device you use.
Be careful when letting the loop of your rope hang below you and always use a back up by pulling in 20-30 feet at a time and clipping a byte directly into your belay loop on your harness. Letting it hang is ok if it’s not windy, the rock is smooth and can’t hang up on flakes or horns or it’s so overhanging that it’s in space and easy to see and manage. wIf it is windy or flakes that the rope could snag on, either carry a rope bag or fold the rope onto a sling and clip it to your belay loop with a runner that is long enough to hang below your feet so it’s cleanly out of the way.
There are plenty of good solo devices on the market that are manufactured for solo purposes. Choose one that fits your needs, get familiar with it and know the pro’s and con’s of the device, they all have positive and negative aspects to them.
I use a Grigri, which is not recommended by the manufacturer. I do not modify it by cutting the handle or notching out the corner to make it feed easier. I DO use a steel locking carabiner and recommend using one no matter what solo device you choose. They are stronger and will most likely not fail if it gets cross-loaded. Some climbers use tape or a rubber band to help the carabiner from flip-flopping around your belay loop.
Leading is essentially the same with a partner but you have to feed your own rope, it’s like belaying the anchors as you climb. If you need to bust a free move and use the Grigri then I usually simply feed out the slack I think I’m going to need for the free moves and go for it. This is one of the drawbacks to using this device. Another one is that a hook, beak or other piece of protection can pop and accidently get stuck behind the handle, causing the device not to lock up properly and possibly falling to the end of your backup knot, or to the end of the rope if you don’t have a backup… which you should always have.
Tagging:
Tagging can be a bit tricky while soloing. I usually just take the entire rack or nearly everything that I think I’ll need to complete the pitch. If you do need to get back to the belay to get gear and your not half way through the pitch, simply plug a couple of good pieces in, or just one if it’s bomber and rappel back down to the station. If your past the half way point, build a temporary anchor, tie your haul line and your lead line into the anchor and rapp down to the belay. Make sure you rig the temporary belay so that the ropes are tied together in case the belay blows and the biners fail, you will just fall to the next piece of pro and still be tied into the lead line.
You can actually tag gear by using a fiffi or a hook, resting it on a carabiner and pulling it up when needed. Once you’ve selected the gear you want you can leave the rest of the gear on the piece you are hanging on. Just remember to leave enough slack in the rope that when you pull it up, you can reach the gear. Also, remember to leave enough slack in case you fall you don’t come onto the tagline, attached to the back of your harness, instead of falling onto your lead line. This system is a bit tricky and should only be used once you’ve have all the other systems dialed and are aware of the dangers that you create by tagging. I personally only use this system on really hard pitches where every ounce is crucial in finishing the pitch.
Finishing the pitch:
Once you finish the pitch, build a belay as you normally would with a partner. Remember that you’re going to have to re-rig the belay once you start the next pitch for an upward pull. Sometimes, it just make since to rap back down the lead rope if it’s a straight up pitch and straight forward. Make sure you rig your hauling device and leave the haul rope at the upper belay if you decide this is best. Avoid cleaning the gear on the way down, if you do clean it then you just have a massive rack to jug with, instead of accumulating it a little at a time on the way back up. Also, it helps if there are any slight angles that you have maneuver through and keeps you from being out in space if it’s overhanging.
Most of the time you’re going to want to rap down your haul line. In either case you’re going to have to untie from the lead line and then retie back in, once you get to the lower belay. Make sure you are using a solid hauling device when you rap down your haul line. Rig the haul rope through your hauling device and then back it up. You can use a prussik clipped to a bolt if you want to be extra safe. Double check your device that it’s correctly rigged before heading down. In most cases you’re going to want plenty of slack in the rope because of the rock overhanging or the pitch traversing. Once you get down to the apex of the rope, you can either pull yourself back into the belay or in some cases you’ll have to jug back/over to the belay. DO NOT forget your jumars at the upper station.
Once you’re back at the lower station and tied back into the lead line, pull in all the slack on the haul line and either use a clove-hitch or butterfly knot. Make sure you pull your knot protector (plastic water bottle top) to protect the knot. This is important because if it rubs against the rock, you don’t want a core-shot somewhere in the middle of your rope. Release your lower-out knot and send your bags out. Make sure the lower-out line can’t snag on anything.
Sometimes, if it looks like the bag is going to snag on everything in its path. I will attach
the lower-out line onto the end of the lead line and abandon tying into the end. That what when I’m hauling, I just pull of the line to help clear the obstructions’.
Cleaning the pitch:
Cleaning the pitch is exactly like you would do with a partner. This is where you really learn if you did a good job protecting the pitch. Sometimes it’s not all about leaving gear for the leader, but for the cleaner as well. You’ll know when you “f*#ked yourself”, if you didn’t leave enough gear in certain places you should have. I really learned a lot about leading and leave the correct gear from cleaning my own pitches.
Remember to help the cleaner out, by back cleaning a few pieces after a lower-out is possible. This really helps on traversing pitches and save a ton of time for the cleaner. When I clean, both with a partner and solo, I take the extra time to re-rack the gear, put all the pins on the same biner, all the nuts on another, etc. If you don’t, it’s just a cluster when you get to the belay and takes longer to sort things out than if you would have just been organized as you’re cleaning the pitch. Especially, if you are swinging leads and the next one is your pitch anyway. Avoid clusters.
Hauling and docking:
When you get back to the upper pitch, take the rack off immediately. Don’t haul with all that sh#t on, I’ve seen climbers do it and it just doesn’t make sense. Also, when you get to the belay, take your rack off before building the anchor. This gives your back a rest, every little bit helps when you’re up there, either alone, or with a partner. Try to avoid doing more work than you have to, or making it harder than it should be.
Take off your backup knots and haul the pig as normal. When it arrives at the belay dock you haul bag with a munter-mule-overhand knot. You should use this knot both solo and with a partner. It will help you avoid man handling the bags at the anchors.
Redirect your anchor and lead line and start the next pitch… rinse and repeat, until you’re on the summit.
Have fun and good luck.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Sep 19, 2014 - 04:34am PT
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this thread is totally humping my leg.
rad.
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Huwj
climber
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Sep 26, 2014 - 08:08am PT
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As a soloing newbie I thought I should add my two cents. First up - Mark Huddon's advice is good. I Like it.
Secondly, Pete is clearly hugely experienced and very knowledgable, but the systems he describes are incredibly complex. They may be necessary on hard aid routes when you are moving multiple pigs across difficult overhanging and traversing terrain but that set up is just too much to take in when you first get started!
Buy a silent partner (or similar device). Haul on a micro traxion (or similar). If for your first wall you pick something you can climb with just one haul bag and keep the weight less than your bodyweight (so you can haul 1:1) life will be so much easier. Likewise forget tagging on your first wall. Carry everything you need for the pitch. Don't get hung up about complex knots. Be safe, but keep it simple and refine your set up as you get it dialled. Finally, I found it easier to keep my haul line and lead line completely separate on my first wall.
Once you are comfortable with the basics of soloing you can introduce all sorts of fancy techniques mentioned above. But better to start simple.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Sep 26, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
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^^ says the self proclaimed noob lol
But he's right
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